QBs. who goes where?

[Ken Gargett]

off-season will see the usual QB carousel. so who goes where? who sticks? who goes with the draft? 

other than Lawrence, who goes first round? 

i see stafford is off the board, swapped for goff and an RG3esque load of picks. stafford was linked to us (WFT) by a lot of guys. i was okay but for nothing more than our first. so i am hugely happy we did not give up that sort of swag. and surprised that the rams did it because surely mcvay learnt from his time with us, unless he thinks giving up the farm for RG3 was a success. if i am detroit, i am thinking we won that trade. if i am a rams fan, i am thinking we better be back in the SB asap. goff was 107 TDs and 55 picks, took them to a SB and the playofss a couple of times, was a pro bowler several times and was 42-27 career starts. a much better record than the much older stafford. yes, i would agree that stafford is a better QB but...

love to hear what rams/lions fans think. 

here is a left field thought. if the bucs get up next weekend, chances brady says enough? and so the bucs are looking again. i believe winston should come cheap. 

who takes a flyer on mariotti or darnold or trubinsky? 

does philly keep both of theirs and if so, what the hell happens? 

i'm assuming rodgers stays put but if not, what does he bring? 

where does cam go and who do the pats chase? 

for us, if dallas stumbles in negotiating with dak, i'd be happy seeing us throw the bank at him.

i suspect that smith will likely retire but who knows. heinneke, allen and smith is not the future and the coaches have said several times they want to set up the future QB this coming season. personally, i could live with those three this next season and fill some of our other many holes. if smith goes, i'd look to mariotti or perhaps a flyer on winston (to compete, not as a definite starter). 

but the music will be playing for a while before the chairs are filled. 

any thoughts? 

i meant to add, so what does watson go for now, if a trade happens? 

herschell walker, come on down! 

[NSXCIGAR]

I'd like to see Ryan or Stafford go to New England. I don't think Watson is a good choice for their system and is very expensive, although he should have 10 good years coming. Wouldn't be opposed to him going to NE. I'd like to see one of those two maybe head to NO. 

I think Brady's got 2 more years left in Tampa. None of the free agents are backups. I think they address that in 2 years. No way is Jameis coming back there. He obviously can't get it done. After making the SB, they're not going to want to regress. I don't think Jameis will be a consistent starter again. He's not the solution in NO. 

Rodgers isn't going anywhere. He's under contract and isn't going to demand a trade. GB will get him some help before that. They have the skeleton of a contender now. Just a few more pieces away.

Alex Smith, I think he might continue to improve. If he doesn't over the next season or two, I think he's done. WA might want to give Heinicke a chance. He might show he could start. Very impressive performance against TB.  

Trubisky's a joke. He'll be riding the pine somewhere. I don't think Darnold's going to make it either. Cam's probably done. 

Dak will probably stay in DAL now that they might not have to pay him as much.

Goff's in a tough spot. LA wants to cut bait and he's not really that good. He makes a ton of money. Looking like a Joe Flacco situation there.

 

Breaking news: Stafford to Rams!

https://www.nfl.com/news/lions-agree-to-trade-matthew-stafford-to-rams-in-blockbuster-deal-involving-jare

[KCCubano]

They are saying Watson to Miami for Tua and draft picks. Who knows. Didnt see Stafford for Goff snd picks. Its crazy. Hopefully my Chiefs can beat Tampa. We dont have two starters on offensive line which is a concern. I think we are favored by 3. I think Kelcey will have big game.

[SpecialK]

Too much to give up for a 33 year old QB.. He's barely held together for the Lions  and his health and production will begin to go south..

 

BTW I've been a Cowboy fan since 75, and don't think Jerry is stupid enough to let Dak go... but Jerry has let me (and every other fan) down before

[NSXCIGAR]

Interesting deal. DET gets a third rounder and 2 firsts for having to eat a big fat turd of a contract for Goff. So that's basically $50 million for a downgrade at QB and a third and two firsts...I don't know. Should have got a second rounder instead of third. 

[NSXCIGAR]

2 minutes ago, KCCubano said:

They are saying Watson to Miami for Tua and draft picks

That wouldn't be a bad deal. Watson is a huge upgrade and Miami is young. 

2 minutes ago, KCCubano said:

Hopefully my Chiefs can beat Tampa. We dont have two starters on offensive line which is a concern.

Going against Tom Brady in the SB is never a walk in the park. And those KC O-line injuries are going to be a big problem. Tampa's front 4 and linebackers are unreal and they have a tremendous pass rush, several guys on the D-line have Super Bowl experience. Mahomes will be sacked at least twice. Should be an unbelievable game.

[Ken Gargett]

7 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

Interesting deal. DET gets a third rounder and 2 firsts for having to eat a big fat turd of a contract for Goff. So that's basically $50 million for a downgrade at QB and a third and two firsts...I don't know. Should have got a second rounder instead of third. 

they now have five first round picks in the next three years. have to think they can work with that. 

[NSXCIGAR]

8 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said:

they now have five first round picks in the next three years. have to think they can work with that. 

They need them. And Goff needs weapons to look decent, and a real RB would help him a lot. Adrian Peterson is expired and Swift may not blossom. They've got a TE they can build around but that's about it. 

[KCCubano]

5 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

That wouldn't be a bad deal. Watson is a huge upgrade and Miami is young. 

Going against Tom Brady in the SB is never a walk in the park. And those KC O-line injuries are going to be a big problem. Tampa's front 4 and linebackers are unreal and they have a tremendous pass rush, several guys on the D-line have Super Bowl experience. Mahomes will be sacked at least twice. Should be an unbelievable game.

I agree. I watched the Packers and Bucs game. We beat them earlier but that means nothing. Not sure who Reid will put in as replacement for Fisher. 

[NSXCIGAR]

2 minutes ago, KCCubano said:

I agree. I watched the Packers and Bucs game. We beat them earlier but that means nothing. Not sure who Reid will put in as replacement for Fisher. 

No, they almost came back in that KC game, and they really weren't playing well then. They just came off giving up 27 to the Rams. If they had got 1 stop at the end, Brady would have driven it home. And I think TB has improved much more than KC, especially the defense. I can assure you, they won't be giving up 200 in the first quarter this time.

[KCCubano]

13 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

No, they almost came back in that KC game, and they really weren't playing well then. They just came off giving up 27 to the Rams. If they had got 1 stop at the end, Brady would have driven it home. And I think TB has improved much more than KC, especially the defense. I can assure you, they won't be giving up 200 in the first quarter this time.

Our D has improved. Looked good against Bills. It could be a classic game. Most of my family left for Tampa today. I will watch at home with a RAG and Havana Club 7! 

[KCCubano]

I was just watching Adam Shefter. Rams think Stafford can reignite high powered offense and take them back to SB

[NSXCIGAR]

34 minutes ago, KCCubano said:

I was just watching Adam Shefter. Rams think Stafford can reignite high powered offense and take them back to SB

Stafford is good enough but they'll need receivers. The issue wasn't all Goff. Woods isn't a No. 1 and Kupp isn't a No. 2. Also need a RB. Gurley was a big reason they made the SB that year. 

They're definitely a few pieces away on offense.

[mprach024]

Lions fan here.  Goffs contract is a problem.  We needed to free up money to repair a team devoid of much talent.  I like the picks, and frankly happy to be rid of Stafford.  The most overrated QB in league, he’s Jay Cutler with a much better attitude, but still lacks in leadership and decision making.  Rams are loaded with talent, I’ll be happy for him if this reignites his career.  All in all I call it a wash, I’d had rather gotten some picks and somebody’s backup because we’ll be lousy again next year, no reason to pay anyone on that team that much money.  We could have started to build in free agency and get ready for the 2022 draft to grab a QB (since I’m sure we’ll be top 5 yet again).  Can’t wait to see how we waste these picks we gained.  More of the same.....go lions.....yawn.

[NSXCIGAR]

42 minutes ago, mprach024 said:

All in all I call it a wash,

It's pretty close. Like I said, you're essentially paying $50 million for those picks. Will a third and 2 firsts be worth $50 million? Highly unlikely. I would have probably tried for Deshaun and two or three premier free agents for that kind of money. 

[anacostiakat]

Looks like Lions and Rams swap QB's plus Lions get 2 #1's next year and year after and a #3rd this year.  Crazy!  So glad WFT did sell the farm on this one although I did hear that they made an offer.

[mprach024]

6 hours ago, anacostiakat said:

Looks like Lions and Rams swap QB's plus Lions get 2 #1's next year and year after and a #3rd this year.  Crazy!  So glad WFT did sell the farm on this one although I did hear that they made an offer.

WFT made a better offer actually, but Stafford has right to approve any trade in his contract, highly doubt Stafford wanted WFT over Rams.

[mprach024]

11 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

It's pretty close. Like I said, you're essentially paying $50 million for those picks. Will a third and 2 firsts be worth $50 million? Highly unlikely. I would have probably tried for Deshaun and two or three premier free agents for that kind of money. 

Yeah for sure.  Only benefit is Goff can’t be cut this year but can next year with no penalty.  He’s a one year rental at that price to get those picks unless he performs.  Stafford couldn’t be released it would have cost us a $40m hit.  I’m ok with this move, other than I can guarantee we won’t see our value with those picks since we are terrible at drafting.  Too bad Rams didn’t go after Deshaun, that would have been an exciting marriage.  He could have improved their running threat and added some dynamics, and he’s young.  Stafford is getting long in the tooth with inflated stats because they are always playing from behind.  This was a wash for Lions for but I think it’s a loss for Rams.  Rams haven’t had a first round pick since Goff in 2017, and now won’t have one until 2024.  Seems silly but what do I know.

[Ken Gargett]

25 minutes ago, mprach024 said:

WFT made a better offer actually, but Stafford has right to approve any trade in his contract, highly doubt Stafford wanted WFT over Rams.

the rumours suggest it was as a better offer although just what "better" equates to remains to be seen, if it ever leaks.

had not heard that about the stafford contract but would make sense. also, the lions probably owe him that at least.

the rumours suggest our offer was a first and a third from this year and one of our DL guys, most likely allen. which would be a shame as i would hate to lose allen. 

[GotYaGoat]

1 hour ago, mprach024 said:

WFT made a better offer actually, but Stafford has right to approve any trade in his contract, highly doubt Stafford wanted WFT over Rams.

Stafford didn’t have a “no-trade” clause in his contract actually. The Lions were trying to do right by him as best they could though. He def wanted Rams over WFT and the Rams offer was pretty pretty pretty good. So a win-win for both Lions and Stafford!

[Ken Gargett]

23 minutes ago, GotYaGoat said:

Stafford didn’t have a “no-trade” clause in his contract actually. The Lions were trying to do right by him as best they could though. He def wanted Rams over WFT and the Rams offer was pretty pretty pretty good. So a win-win for both Lions and Stafford!

the no trade clause was never mentioned in anything i have read so that makes sense. anything on watson does mention his. 

i think it a positive that they supported his wishes, given his long service but in reality, i can't believe that the difference in offers was such as to make much of a difficult choice. what business would disadvantage themselves to assist a bloke who wanted out. so that leads me to believe that like so much one reads in these matters, it is purely rumour. suits everyone to think otherwise but if the WFT's offer had been one that detroit preferred then that is where he'd have gone. thankfully it did not happen. 

[NSXCIGAR]

I'm assuming this is just as much about Matt Patricia as it is the horrible NE offense:

https://www.bostonherald.com/2021/01/31/report-matthew-stafford-willing-to-go-anywhere-but-new-england/

 

[Ken Gargett]

10 hours ago, mprach024 said:

WFT made a better offer actually, but Stafford has right to approve any trade in his contract, highly doubt Stafford wanted WFT over Rams.

the word now emerging is that we offered our first and third for this year. which i would have thought was reasonable and about as far as i would have wanted to go. 

but on what planet anyone thinks that this would be a better offer than what the rams gave up is beyond me. not even close. 

[mprach024]

16 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said:

the word now emerging is that we offered our first and third for this year. which i would have thought was reasonable and about as far as i would have wanted to go. 

but on what planet anyone thinks that this would be a better offer than what the rams gave up is beyond me. not even close. 

Your opinion is fair, another way to look at it is we just spent a boat load of money to get one more first round pick (3 years away) from a team that “likely” could be a later draft pick along with another underperforming qb.  Most of the talk I’ve heard here in Michigan, while we aren’t unhappy with the move, we’d rather have the picks now, along with the money freed up for free agency.  It’s like we won the lotto but opted for the annual payments.  We could have made some big changes right away (which we would have screwed up most likely) with WFTs offer.  Sorry if that’s beyond you ?.

[Ken Gargett]

1 minute ago, mprach024 said:

Your opinion is fair, another way to look at it is we just spent a boat load of money to get one more first round pick (3 years away) from a team that “likely” could be a later draft pick along with another underperforming qb.  Most of the talk I’ve heard here in Michigan, while we aren’t unhappy with the move, we’d rather have the picks now, along with the money freed up for free agency.  It’s like we won the lotto but opted for the annual payments.  We could have made some big changes right away (which we would have screwed up most likely) with WFTs offer.  Sorry if that’s beyond you ?.

not sure what you mean by being beyond me? 

yet another way to look at this is, if the story is true, we offered pick 19 and pick 74 or 82 (we have two in the third and not sure which we are supposed to have offered - let's go with 74).

you gave up a QB who took you to a SB two years ago and who might not have become elite but really is a hell of a lot better than is being made out. he has a far better win/loss record than stafford and a very similar TD/pick ratio. he has always acted with dignity, is a team player, is tough - the screws to the thumb to come back to help his team in the playoffs is evidence of that. a lot of teams have worse QBs. us, for example. 

your third was pick 89, i think. thereabouts. not a huge difference between 74, 82 or 89. allow me a touch of fudging to rule these close enough. they cancel each other out. sort of. 

so basically the trade is our 19th pick up against goff and two future first round picks. tell me you would have swapped goff and your next two firsts for our 19th for this year. and see if you still think ours was a better offer. if detroit wants to offer us goff and two future firsts for our 19th, i'd suggest our FO couldn't sign the deal quick enough. 

i say again, not even close. 

of course, neither of us will know if we are close for several years. the rams are obviously going for a SB win in the next 2-3 years. because this is a side where the stars are a little older and more expensive than with most teams. with new guys coming through, you'll have to offload some talent, although as you don't have a first for the next million years, it might not be such an issue. if you don't win in the next couple of years, hard to see you holding a spot at the heights you'd hope. don't forget, a division with wilson still throwing for the seahawks, the 49ers who were in the SB a year ago. the cards? they won't be easy. 

the lions obviously going for a longer term build-up. you'd have to think they'll find a way to stuff it - probably needing to replace a coach yet again - but five firsts in the next three years, a competent QB and a bag of money. lot of clubs would like to be in that position.