Anyone see fakes with real bands?

[Bijan]

I'm 99% sure I got some fake Cohibas, based on taste, construction and deconstruction, several red flags (label end cut diagonally, super glued on, and at least one label had writing in pencil and pen all over it on the back side). But the label has the Cohiba micro printing on the tiny native heads so I'm assuming it's real. I mean most fakes use the wrong font, or smear the ink, so I doubt anyone has gone to the trouble of recreating the micro printing just to have a bunch of other obvious red flags.

Any one else come across this? I guess this is easiest to tell on the new Cohiba bands as the micro printing is a pretty good hint as to real/fake status.

[Chibearsv]

On 12/16/2020 at 10:13 AM, Bijan said:

I'm 99% sure I got some fake Cohibas, based on taste, construction and deconstruction, several red flags (label end cut diagonally, super glued on, and at least one label had writing in pencil and pen all over it on the back side). But the label has the Cohiba micro printing on the tiny native heads so I'm assuming it's real. I mean most fakes use the wrong font, or smear the ink, so I doubt anyone has gone to the trouble of recreating the micro printing just to have a bunch of other obvious red flags.

Any one else come across this? I guess this is easiest to tell on the new Cohiba bands as the micro printing is a pretty good hint as to real/fake status.

Not related to Cohiba, but I got a box of Sir Winston GR as a gift about a year ago that had perfect bands, GR bands, lacquer box, hardware, box cards, velvet bag, black GR ribbon, everything spot on.  The warranty seal number was valid but for completely different cigars.  Besides that, the only other red flags were the cigars themselves looked horrendous and that the person gifting them to me couldn't possibly pay the freight for a real box; he admitted they cost him $300.  I actually tried to smoke one of them and it was a flavorless piece of crap.  I bought a legit box of the same cigars to compare and to prove to myself what GR should mean and they are absolutely glorious.  But, if the gifter never told me what he paid, and if the wrappers had looked anything like Sir Winstons, you'd be hard pressed to call them out as fakes.

[nKostyan]

Yes, I've tried that. These are fakes made with the help of the managers of Cuban cigar factories.

[Corylax18]

Photos? Source? (not name, just type) We're just blowing wind without photos of the cigars and packaging.

None of the "Red Flags' you mentioned are un common in Cuban Cigars. Cohiba or not. If the box has an El Laguito code, you have a better chance of getting great cigars. Any other code and they're just like any other Cuban. You can get great ones and you can get crappy ones. It sounds like you got some crappy ones. 

There's a chance you got counterfeits, but with the evidence presented, I'm leaning heavily towards a bad box. The real cigars and packing materials that sneak out are almost all resold to tourist on the island, maybe they make their way to friends and family in the US or another country, but they aren't making their way to large distributors. 

[Bijan]

5 hours ago, Corylax18 said:

There's a chance you got counterfeits, but with the evidence presented, I'm leaning heavily towards a bad box.

These were singles from a cardboard pack. I don't know what evidence would satisfy you of fakes then. I've not come across a single of these red flags in several hundred cigars this year but now it is reasonable to find them all at the same time in these few cigars?

Edit: and they weren't bad they were unsmokeable (again never happened that I could only smoke a third of a cigar and couldn't go on). And even after being partially smoked they messed up my palate for an entire day on two separate occasions.

5 hours ago, Corylax18 said:

Photos? Source? (not name, just type) We're just blowing wind without photos of the cigars and packaging.

Source was local B&M not a large distributor. Cigars are gone but I can give photos of the cardboard pack.

I have no doubts they were fakes. Another red flag is that they had Siglo V in stock at under what the price should be locally. I didn't realize the price until later as I got various singles and asked for the total.

 

Some photos of the cardboard box (no obvious red flags). I had some siglo I and II and Robustos cardboard packs but I have lost the inner single cardboards for those so I don't have the photos to post.

I also found photos of the cigars themselves. The one with the band removed with writing is a Siglo IV, the others Siglo Vs.

[Bijan]

Also from the stickied thread at the top of the suspect cigar sub-forum:

"What Cuban cigars are faked?

All cigars can and are being faked and can be categorised as follows:

• Fake cigars in fake packaging (total fakes)
• Fake cigars in genuine packaging (replacement fakes)
• Genuine cigars with fake bands in genuine or fake packaging (upgrade fakes)

 

Fake Cigars can be non-Cuban cigars or cheap local Cuban cigars (handmade but normally with short-filler tobacco scraps). They may or may not be to the correct size, and are sometimes sold with a totally bogus cigar or release name. Fake or upgraded cigars can also be genuine Cuban cigars with stolen or fake bands purporting to be an exclusive valuable cigar.

Fake Packaging includes genuine boxes (either stolen in large numbers or a reused genuine box), be counterfeits of genuine boxes, or totally bogus boxes (for example the “classic” glass top boxed Cohiba’s).For example, consider a standard production Montecristo No.4. Replace the standard band with a forged “Compay” band and it becomes the 2002 Compay 95 Aniversario cigar. Alternatively add to it a supplementary “Reserva” band and it becomes a 2007 Reserva cigar.

Genuine Packaging is either stolen packaging (high volume scams) or reused packaging (low volume scams) .

Fake Bands are either stolen bands, forged bands (commercially available on the web or self-forgeries), or reused genuine bands."

So it seems you can have fake cigars with genuine packaging/bands.