Bijan Posted December 16, 2020 Posted December 16, 2020 Just now, Tstew75 said: It will be really hard to confirm this, as all provincial codes are. I will say in your favor that I've opened about 10 blind boxes of 2020 PSD4s, and 80% of them have been SOU. UEB was used for a bunch of D4s in the past, and they always looked really, really good. I also had magical MSPEs from UEB in 17/18. Yes I noticed on the PSD4/5/6. My methodology was as follows, I have a list of boxes with box codes from a vendor. I looked up all SOU boxes and noted the vitolas (21 vitolas found, including PSD4/D5/D6). Then I looked for all the box code for each of those vitolas in 2019 up until when SOU came around. UEB was the most prevalent. 13/21 were found under UEB previously in my list. The next most code is MSU at 6/21, but we know MSU->TUA so that's out. Next one ares are: ABO, TSM, UBM at 5/21. Also looked at the reverse how many different vitolas there were under UEB in 2019, and what happened to those boxes. This also supported UEB->SOU (otherwise maybe UEB is making everything, so that is why it matched previously). Also looked at the relative frequency of UEB and SOU and it looked about right, although maybe a little less SOU than expected compared to how frequent UEB was. Anyways given this data I'm confident UEB is the most likely.
Tstew75 Posted December 16, 2020 Posted December 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, Bijan said: Yes I noticed on the PSD4/5/6. My methodology was as follows, I have a list of boxes with box codes from a vendor. I looked up all SOU boxes and noted the vitolas (21 vitolas found, including PSD4/D5/D6). Then I looked for all the box code for each of those vitolas in 2019 up until when SOU came around. UEB was the most prevalent. 13/21 were found under UEB previously in my list. The next most code is MSU at 6/21, but we know MSU->TUA so that's out. Next one ares are: ABO, TSM, UBM at 5/21. Also looked at the reverse how many different vitolas there were under UEB in 2019, and what happened to those boxes. This also supported UEB->SOU (otherwise maybe UEB is making everything, so that is why it matched previously). Also looked at the relative frequency of UEB and SOU and it looked about right, although maybe a little less SOU than expected compared to how frequent UEB was. Anyways given this data I'm confident UEB is the most likely. Nice work! Now if we just knew what factory that was ? 1 2
Bijan Posted December 16, 2020 Posted December 16, 2020 4 minutes ago, Tstew75 said: Nice work! Now if we just knew what factory that was ? An interesting project to unravel all the factory codes would be to carry out this sort of analysis that I did all the way back 20 years. Then the factory codes were not random but fixed. @El Presidente probably has the data in his files on box codes and vitolas. Otherwise if I had enough free time I could scrape the internet for box codes.
Markspring1978 Posted December 16, 2020 Posted December 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Bijan said: An interesting project to unravel all the factory codes would be to carry out this sort of analysis that I did all the way back 20 years. Then the factory codes were not random but fixed. @El Presidente probably has the data in his files on box codes and vitolas. Otherwise if I had enough free time I could scrape the internet for box codes. Some more data for your unraveling project: https://www.cubancigarwebsite.com/packaging/information#Factory_Codes 1
Bijan Posted December 16, 2020 Posted December 16, 2020 46 minutes ago, Markspring1978 said: Some more data for your unraveling project: https://www.cubancigarwebsite.com/packaging/information#Factory_Codes Thanks! Looking back at 2000-2003 codes it looks like you wouldn't be able to figure out exact factories. Sets of half a dozen codes were shared between two or three factories. Still would be interesting to do. At a minimum it would be nice to figure out the mother factory codes in the period 2003-2020.
Markspring1978 Posted December 16, 2020 Posted December 16, 2020 15 minutes ago, Bijan said: Thanks! Looking back at 2000-2003 codes it looks like you wouldn't be able to figure out exact factories. Sets of half a dozen codes were shared between two or three factories. Still would be interesting to do. At a minimum it would be nice to figure out the mother factory codes in the period 2003-2020. 1
Fugu Posted December 16, 2020 Posted December 16, 2020 13 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said: Some tradition, some practical ... and out of necessity. With the closing and continual swapping of localities, Havana city factories being down from about ten at the turn of the century to now a mere five, there isn’t much option to choose from really. More than „tradition“ it is their inability in long-term maintenance of value. On 12/12/2020 at 7:09 PM, chuckpnoy said: I wonder what determines which marca comes out of which factory (ie. Partagas and Upmann vitolas coming from other “mother” factories)? Historically, they initially all started out from their original places under their respective private ownership (bar Cohiba and later creations, for obvious reasons). That‘s why we find a bit of that still today. From then on, a slow but steady consolidation effect set in.
Fugu Posted December 16, 2020 Posted December 16, 2020 4 hours ago, Tstew75 said: It will be really hard to confirm this, as all provincial codes are. Some lists mention UEB as a secondary Partagas factory code, but until it's proven otherwise I'm sticking to the old notion that there's only one mother factory code at a time. I will say in your favor that I've opened about 10 blind boxes of 2020 PSD4s, and 80% of them have been SOU. They've been nice, but not gorgeous. UEB was used for a bunch of D4s in the past, and they always looked really, really good. I also had magical MCPEs from UEB in 17/18. If you want to find out what Partagas is, really the toughest option is it to look for D4s.... as one of the highest-volume production cigars they tend to be made all over the place. For Partagas best check BPC or BCJ, or MdO4 (when they were in production), as these have always been Partagas-made. 4
NSXCIGAR Posted December 16, 2020 Posted December 16, 2020 5 hours ago, Tstew75 said: I also had magical MCPEs from UEB in 17/18. I had a bunch of UEB ABR 18s with great flavor but the most unbelievably fireproof wrappers you can believe. Multiple boxes, all in 10s.
Tstew75 Posted December 16, 2020 Posted December 16, 2020 48 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said: I had a bunch of UEB ABR 18s with great flavor but the most unbelievably fireproof wrappers you can believe. Multiple boxes, all in 10s. All of mine were 25ct, mostly 17s & early 18s. I didn't come across any crazy wrappers that you describe!
Tstew75 Posted December 16, 2020 Posted December 16, 2020 2 hours ago, Fugu said: If you want to find out what Partagas is, really the toughest option is it to look for D4s.... as one of the highest-volume production cigars they tend to be made all over the place. For Partagas best check BPC or BCJ, or MdO4 (when they were in production), as these have always been Partagas-made. Oh for sure, there's not many MSU/TUA D4s to be found. I hope I wasn't inferring that. It's just interesting that FOH's own historical factory code list shows LMB, ETP, MSU, BUP & UEB as 17/18/19 Partagas codes. Hard to prove that any of those outside of MSU are actually Partagas.
CigarZen Posted December 17, 2020 Author Posted December 17, 2020 I noticed some RASCC with SOU code up for sale on 24:24. I have bought these RA for many years and have always been made at Partagas, as I understand exclusively. This may be a good indication ?
Tstew75 Posted December 17, 2020 Posted December 17, 2020 2 hours ago, CigarZen said: I noticed some RASCC with SOU code up for sale on 24:24. I have bought these RA for many years and have always been made at Partagas, as I understand exclusively. This may be a good indication ? Looking at some currently avail codes for RASCC...MSU/TUA, EPM, LEP, LGB, OER, SOP, UMR. Def inconclusive, as they're rolled all over. Now if we ever see a SOP code for RAS, that would be the kicker. I'm pretty sure they're only rolled at Partagas ?
NSXCIGAR Posted December 17, 2020 Posted December 17, 2020 6 hours ago, CigarZen said: I noticed some RASCC with SOU code up for sale on 24:24. I have bought these RA for many years and have always been made at Partagas, as I understand exclusively. This may be a good indication ? A large percentage of RASCC is rolled at Partagas but is pretty widely dispersed. Same with RASS. I've found most RAS is rolled at Partagas however. Almost all LGC, BPC, BCJ is Partagas. Very little BBF is Partagas and as I recall very little if any BCG was from Partagas in the final years of 14-16. 1
CigarZen Posted December 17, 2020 Author Posted December 17, 2020 4 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said: A large percentage of RASCC is rolled at Partagas but is pretty widely dispersed. Same with RASS. I've found most RAS is rolled at Partagas however. Almost all LGC, BPC, BCJ is Partagas. Very little BBF is Partagas and as I recall very little if any BCG was from Partagas in the final years of 14-16. Interesting. — I must only pick those from known Partagas codes. Thanks for clarification.
asmazda Posted December 17, 2020 Posted December 17, 2020 Any idea what factory GEL code is? I have March 2020 PSD4.
Fezztone Posted December 18, 2020 Posted December 18, 2020 22 hours ago, asmazda said: Any idea what factory GEL code is? I have March 2020 PSD4. I was just searching for that too! I just received GEL July 2020 Esplendidos
Tstew75 Posted December 18, 2020 Posted December 18, 2020 23 hours ago, asmazda said: Any idea what factory GEL code is? I have March 2020 PSD4. 1 hour ago, Fezztone said: I was just searching for that too! I just received GEL July 2020 Esplendidos There's no real way to know, especially this early on. Chances are its provincial. 1
Tstew75 Posted December 21, 2020 Posted December 21, 2020 1 hour ago, asmazda said: Is the consensus that SOU = UEB box code? The fact is no one will ever know this with certainty. So many variables in non-mother-factory-code translations (IE, outside the BIG 4 codes). 1
Woody Hayes Posted December 23, 2020 Posted December 23, 2020 Just received my April 20 Trini Esmeralda's from factory: GLE.
Popular Post Habana Mike Posted December 24, 2020 Popular Post Posted December 24, 2020 On 12/16/2020 at 2:35 PM, Bijan said: Thanks! Looking back at 2000-2003 codes it looks like you wouldn't be able to figure out exact factories. Sets of half a dozen codes were shared between two or three factories. Still would be interesting to do. At a minimum it would be nice to figure out the mother factory codes in the period 2003-2020. This is fairly thorough through 2014: ORIGINAL CUBAN FACTORY AND DATE CODES 1985 – 1998 Havana Factories - F?bricas de La Habana Ciudad de La Habana - Havana BM - Briones Montoto, formerly Romeo y Julieta CB - Carlos Bali?o, formerly El Rey del Mundo EH - El Habanero EL - El Laguito (Cohiba) FPG - Francisco P?rez Germ?n, formerly Partag?s FR - Miguel Fern?ndez Roig, formerly La Corona JCS - Juan Cano Sainz, formerly Por Larra?aga FL/PL/PO - Por Larra?aga JM - Jos? Marti, formerly H. Upmann HM - H?roes de Moncada (Jose Piedra) LM/SLR - Las Mambisas Provincial Factories - F?bricas de Provincias Cienfuegos Province CFG - Cienfuegos region (same as CFGS) CFGS - Cienfuegos region (same as CFG) FD/PR - Francisco Donantien, Pinar Del Rio region LV - Las Villas region RD - Ricardo Donatien, Pinar del Rio region SS - Sancti-Spir?tus region TLP - Tobacos L?zaro Pe?a, San Antonio region TTB - Granma, Bayamo region TTH - Holgu?n region VC - Villa Clara, Santa Clara region (same as VSC) VCS - Villa Santa Clara, Santa Clara region (same as VC) DATE CODES 1985-1998 1 N 2 I 3 V 4 E 5 L 6 A 7 C 8 U 9 S 0 O Examples: FPG Francisco Perez German OVSU 03/98 BMNOSA Briones Montoto 10/96 JM-NOSE Jose Marti 10/94 NISL-TLP-02 12/95 Tobias Lazaro Pena 02 VC1-ESU Villa Clara-1 4/98 YEAR 1999 FACTORY AND DATE CODES 1999 FACTORY CODES: Havana Factories - F?bricas de La Habana Ciudad de La Habana - Havana EGD - Carlos Bali?o, formerly El Rey del Mundo EDC - Briones Montoto, formerly Romeo y Julieta EUN - El Laguito EAT - Francisco P?rez Germ?n, formerly Partag?s EOG - Miguel Fern?ndez Roig, formerly La Corona ENI - H?roes de Moncada ECA - Jos? Mart?, formerly H. Upmann EEO - Juan Cano Sainz, formerly Por Larra?aga Provincial Factories - F?bricas de Provincias Cienfuegos Province OTC - Cienfuegos I OAI - Cienfuegos II OOG - Cruces OET - Cumanayagua OIN - Lajas Granma Province NAT - Bayamo NOO - Jiguan? Holgu?n Province UNG - Antilla UDI - Gibara UAN - Holgu?n I UCE - Holgu?n II UET - San Andr?s La Habana Province TEN - Artemisa I TEC - Artemisa II TND - Bejucal TOU - G?ines TAE - G?ira I TDC - G?ira II TIO - Quivic?n TCI - San Antonio I TNG - San Antonio II TGT - San Antonio de las Vegas TUD - San Nicol?s de Bari TTA - Santa Cruz del Norte Pinar del Rio Province GDI - Candelaria GAO - Consolaci?n del Sur GCN - Piloto GNU - Pinar del R?o GOC - San Juan (Rio Seco) Sancti-Sp?ritus Province CEG - Arroyo Blanco COT - Cabaigu?n CGI - Fomento CNE - Guayos CTO - Jatibonico CUN - Perea CID - Sancti-Sp?ritus CDU - Taguasco CAC - Trinidad CCA - Zaza del Medio Santiago de Cuba Province AGE - Santiago de Cuba Villa Clara Province DNU - B?ez DDE - Camajuan? DIT - Esperanza DEC - Manicaragua DGC - Placetas DAI - Quemado de G?ines DOD - Ranchuelo DCO - Remedios DTA - Santa Clara I DAT - Santa Clara II DNC - Santo Domingo DUN - Vueltas JANUARY – MAY 1999 DATE CODES Number Code 1 N 2 E 3 T 4 A 5 G 6 I 7 D 8 O 9 C 0 U JUNE – DECEMBER 1999 DATE CODES Date Code May 1999 EPOO June 1999 ESOO July 1999 EUOO August 1999 EAOO September 1999 EOOO October 1999 LEOO November 1999 LLOO December 1999 LROO NOTE: It is a known fact, that a number of factories did not utilize the June – December 1999 coding system and continued to use NETAGIDOCU coding system and to make matters even more confusing, some factories adopted a blend of both coding systems: NETAGIDOCU and NIVELACUSO. For example: CCES 06/99 CCEU 07/99 CCAE 08/99 CCNU 10/99 CCNN 11/99 CCNT 12/99 ELOO 01/2000 YEAR 2000 DATE CODES AND BEYOND Starting in the year 2000 the date codes have five digits: MMMYY The first three digits “MMM” represent the month portion of the code while the last two digits "YY" represent the year. Month Codes English Spanish Code January Enero ENE February Febrero FEB March Marzo MAR April Abril ABR May Mayo MAY June Junio JUN July Julio JUL August Agosto AGO September Setiembre SET October Octubre OCT November Noviembre NOV December Diciembre DIC Example: Year Code 2000 00 2001 01 2002 02 2003 03 2004 04 2005 05 and so on.... Example Decoded ENE00 January 2000 NOV02 November 2002 ABR00 April 2000 DIC04 December 2004 SOME OF THE KNOWN FACTORY CODES 2000-2002 LOC Carlos Balino – El Rey Del Mundo EOG, EAR - La Corona ECA - H. Upmann RPO - H?roes de Moncada OSU - Partagas PEL - Romeo y Julieta 2000: LOME, LQME; 2001: CLE El Laguito ARA - Jose Cano LRL, SLA - Pinar Del Rio PUL, URE, UPA, IESC - Holguin URL, LES, SUA, CPV, RSE, PUC - Villa Clara VCR, DUO, REC, PAS, USP, APE, LUL, CLO, SRA, OVU - Sancti Spiritus CAV, ALV, SSU, VEL, SOL, PAR, SCO, LPE - La Habana EOP, LAC, SEL, PUV - Cienfuergos ACS, PLO - Granma OLA - Santiago de Cuba Some known factory codes from the year 2003 and on: Francisco P?rez Germ?n (Partagas) GKI - 2003 SVF - 2005 POS - 2006, 2007 TEB - 2007, 2008 LRE - 2009 POL - 2010 OGA – 2011, 2012 MUR – 2012 (MAY/JUNE), 2013 ULA – 2013, 2014 Jose Marti (H.Upmann) LLN – 2003 -05-04 FIM - 2005 ROA - 2006 USE - 2007 - 08 MOA - 2009 MGA - 2010 SUB – 2011, 2012 UPE – 2012 (summer), 2013 LUB – 2013, 2014 Briones Montoto (Romeo y Julieta) JNL - 2003-4 SXF - 2004-5 El Laguito CLE 2001-03 MKO – 2003-04 PFY - 2005 PLM - 2006 MEL - 2007-08 LBT - 2009 TEU - 2010/2011 MES – 2011, 2012 BTO – 2012, 2013 MUO – 2013 (NOV), 2014 Miguel Fernandes Roig (La Corona) EAR - 2001-3 KMM - 2003/4 FHR - 2004 FJN - 2005 OEB - 2006 EMA - 2007-08 OPM - 2009 URG -2010, 2011 MLO -2011, 2012 AME – 2012 (MAY), 2013 EML - 2013, 2014 Francisco Donantien, Pinar del Rio: OIK - 2004 IKR - 2005 STL - 2006-07 OUR - 2008-09 OUS - 2009-10 AGR - 2010-11 MSE – 2011, 2012 LUM – 2012, 2013 SUE/APU? – 2013, 2014 ?La Habana ?URO, ERO - 2008-2010? - not confirmed SOA, SOE (2011), LOE (2012), TUO (2013) - La Habana (not confirmed) PSM (2012-2013) - Guira MUE, TAU, ROA, BOA, GUT (2012-2013), RMS (2012-2013) - provincial factories (not confirmed...wherever these Punch Punch/Connie #1 come from) LEM 2011 - Carlos Bali?o (not confirmed) According to HSA, BHKs are rolled only at El Laguito Factory for the first four months. LBT MAR10, LBT ABR10, TEU MAY10, TEU JUN10. The production expands to other factories, but the box codes remain TEU, as we gather the info: JUL, AUG, SEP, NOV, DEC, JAN2011... could be rolled elsewhere, but will bare the same code. New Guarantee stickers are also at play - first new stickers came from Partagas factory. MES is the new code starting in the spring of 2011 at El Laguito. Courtesy ICC 2 5
Greekfreak Posted January 14, 2021 Posted January 14, 2021 On 12/11/2020 at 10:38 AM, FireDigger said: Thanks for the link to that thread. I tried searching "RAT" but did not yield any results. Not sure if there's a minimum number of characters for the FOH search? Upmann is GEM
PuroDan Posted January 14, 2021 Posted January 14, 2021 Is SOU the EL factory? MAR is for sure wondering about SOU
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