Speed aging experiment

[BrightonCorgi]

Rinsing a young cigar before cutting takes off some of the ammonia tastes.  I'd rather forget about the boxes and revisit them a few years later than experiment on forced maturing. 

I have started vacuum sealing boxes I have doubles or more of.  Not sure who those will age, but I think it will be slower.  I plan to open and re-seal everything once a year.

[Sunseeker]

@TobaccoRoad I agree with you in regards of accelerating some sort of process. This was my train of thought when it comes to temperature assuming moisture content is a constant.

•Cool 65/70F= slows fermentation (locks in desired traits long term)

•Warm 85/90f= accelerated fermentation/aging

Hot 95f+= composting

These are by no means numbers backed by actual scientific data.

I'm simply following my nose and taste buds for this experiment. There is definitely a ceiling to how long they can go at those elevated temps. 

 

[chuckpnoy]

1 hour ago, BrightonCorgi said:

Rinsing a young cigar before cutting takes off some of the ammonia tastes.  I'd rather forget about the boxes and revisit them a few years later than experiment on forced maturing. 

I have started vacuum sealing boxes I have doubles or more of.  Not sure who those will age, but I think it will be slower.  I plan to open and re-seal everything once a year.

May I ask why you would want it to be slower.  I get an eye twitch just trying to rest them, let alone age them.

[BrightonCorgi]

1 hour ago, chuckpnoy said:

May I ask why you would want it to be slower.  I get an eye twitch just trying to rest them, let alone age them.

I don't want them to be necessarily slower.  I have run out of room and my cellar is close to humidor humidity for much of the year.  I believe MRN said he found slower aging from sealed boxes to be preferable on the long haul.  Maybe someone has the book handier than I do or remember the thread on this? 

I'd imagine many of the boxes I am storing in my cellar I will end up selling down the road.  I'll never get to them and want to buy other boxes...

[JZBdano]

Thanks for sharing.  Never been a fan of ammonia, rough edges or that youthful punch in CCs.  Looking forward to trying this out.

[Monterey]

I vacuum seal everything as well.  I have way too many cigars.  My endless goal is to either slow down buying (total fail so far, Cubas new prices may help me now though) or slow down the ageing process. 

I even am doing an opposite experiment.  I have a handful of cigars in the freezer.  Been there for 3 years.  Going to 5.  From the same box I've vacuum sealed some, and the rest are just in a small box.   Seeing how the 3 methods compare.  I couldn't find anyone who tried long haul freezing, just making fun of anyone who would try.

Experiments are fun.  So I applaud you on your adventure.

[Sunseeker]

I've experimented with colder temps before. Just above freezing (33f) in a vacuum sealed bag. Also kept a small jar of water in the same fridge to make sure no freezing was occurring in case my thermometer was off by a few degrees. My reasoning behind this was that freezing a moist cigar might bruse/burst the tobacco in a similar way of freezing spinach or lettuce. The tiny ice crystals during freezing could damage the tobacco on a microscopic level.

Im aware that manufacturers freeze their cigars to kill beetle eggs. Just not sure if they flash freeze or how they go about it without damaging the integrity of the tobacco. Just above freezing to me seemed like a safe bet.

[Monterey]

2 hours ago, Sunseeker said:

 

Im aware that manufacturers freeze their cigars to kill beetle eggs. Just not sure if they flash freeze or how they go about it without damaging the integrity of the tobacco. Just above freezing to me seemed like a safe bet.

Actually, keeping it just above freezing is the worst thing to do beetle wise, but if you are sure you have no beetle issue, then for long term storage I can see your point.

Most of us don't flash freeze, not even sure what that is really, but we put it in a freezer that is around 0F for 2-4 days (I do 2 days at -17F).  I can confirm that for a few days, there is zero issues.  Doing it for 5 years, well, I have no idea what to expect.

[Bijan]

1 hour ago, Monterey said:

Actually, keeping it just above freezing is the worst thing to do beetle wise, but if you are sure you have no beetle issue, then for long term storage I can see your point.

How so? Curious to know what could go wrong. Several weeks at such temperatures also kills the beetles, eggs, etc. long term just as freezing just much slower at least according to the papers I saw.

Edit: also can't see how cold would be the worst. I would think warm would be worst thing beetle wise.

[TheGipper]

2 hours ago, Monterey said:

Actually, keeping it just above freezing is the worst thing to do beetle wise

Oh nonsense, it's fine.  It just takes a longer to kill the eggs at 1C-5C.  10-14 days at just above freezing is the same as 4-12 hours in a -10C to -15C freezer.  Look it up in the Imai and Harada paper.

I think there's a lot of misunderstanding of the acclimated larva category in the Imai and Harada paper.  This category was hatched egg larvae that were exposed to 15C for multiple months before they were subjected to the test conditions.  Imai and Harada were trying to simulate tobacco stored for months in a curing barn or warehouse during typical (mild) winter conditions in tobacco growing regions.

You are unlikely to have any larvae in your boxes at all, and even if somehow you do, the refrigerator temperature is well below the acclimation temperature.  You will kill the larvae in the refrigerator in about the same time as the eggs.

[Fugu]

5 hours ago, Sunseeker said:

My reasoning behind this was that freezing a moist cigar might bruse/burst the tobacco in a similar way of freezing spinach or lettuce. The tiny ice crystals during freezing could damage the tobacco on a microscopic level.

With the difference that here, in the processed tobacco, the plantal tissue is already heavily denatured, cellular structures been broken up and not intact anymore. No danger there. In particular as there is little free water in a cigar.

5 hours ago, Sunseeker said:

Just not sure if they flash freeze or how they go about it without damaging the integrity of the tobacco.

How to shock freeze a master case? Master cases stacked up on a palette... ?

[Sunseeker]

1 hour ago, Fugu said:

With the difference that here, in the processed tobacco, the plantal tissue is already heavily denatured, cellular structures been broken up and not intact anymore. No danger there. In particular as there is little free water in a cigar.

That explains a lot. Would you pull a strong vacuum before freezing?

[Fugu]

I don’t see any need nor any pro in vacuum-packing for freezing.

[PigFish]

18 hours ago, Sunseeker said:

Would like to start off by saying hello to everyone on this board.

I decided to take a risk and run a little experiment to see if I could possibly speed age cigars by introducing them to slightly warmer temps while maintaining a percent moisture content equivalent to 60rh @ 70f as that is where i prefer to smoke my cigars. My new set point for my experiment would be 66rh @ 87f in an insulated box kept warm by a heating mat and an oasis magna for humidification.

I've recently purchased a few boxes of cubans that were unsmokable due to how young the cigars were and couldn't wait to dig into them. Trinidad fundadores, juan lopez#2, San cristobal el principe.

It has been 2 months in the warmed box and these are the best tasting cigars I've ever had. The 2019 fundadores tasted as good as my 2014's.

Before they went into the warmed box the cigars were absolutely horrible. Harsh cardboard/Window cleaner taste that burned your nose and throat and now they taste like heaven.

Did I speed up the aging? Or simply evaporate ammonia and water? Any suggestions would be great.

 

... you acclimatized at a faster rate. You dried your cigars faster. MHO...

I have been telling people to consider 'hot boxing' over dry boxing for years. Very few people understand the dynamics of hygroscopic materials, and fewer that smoke cigars want to see anything past the 'mythical' norm!

Cheers! -Piggy

[vladdraq]

Why care, if for you were better? Heat accelerates chemical reactions, or whatever happens at molecular level. Even, if it was only a physical change, if taste improved great!