Does anyone else ponder this?

[PigFish]

The other day I came across a study on masks and covid.

Look people, don't go wetting yourself over my bringing it up... It is just an example.

They tested a bunch of people that indicated that they wore their masks 100% of the time in public. They tested them against those that did not. Same number of each got covid.

If you look at the mask number alone, one could conclude that the masks caused covid! If you look at the non-mask number, you could conclude that not wearing one caused covid. That is the beauty of statistics. It all depends on how you parse the data.

Eat right, get plenty of sleep, give blood, volunteer at the Red Cross, say your prayers... die anyway! Ponder that one over a Double Coronas!

Viva freedom and the right to take risk. If all bad choices were against the law, we would all be in prison!

Cheers! -Piggy

[Bijan]

7 minutes ago, PigFish said:

They tested a bunch of people that indicated that they wore their masks 100% of the time in public. They tested them against those that did not. Same number of each got covid.

Unless they were N95 masks they're supposed to be something like 5% effective at preventing you from getting covid. So the numbers should definitely be very close, though perhaps not identical. I'll have to look into the study.

What masks are supposed to do is to stop you from spreading covid.

9 minutes ago, PigFish said:

give blood

I do that one about twice a year. Can't say I live up to your other recommendations

9 minutes ago, PigFish said:

Viva freedom and the right to take risk. If all bad choices were against the law, we would all be in prison!

I'm here in Canada and they're busy legalizing marijuana, while cracking down on tobacco. Four legs good, two legs bad. Or compound leaves good, simple leaves bad...

[Skypilot]

I ponder it. Cited research aside how can it not have some kind of effect on health? For me personally 3-5 cigars a week and some weeks only,1 cigar the risk seems low. I have plenty of other health related issues to consider.

[Fugu]

2 hours ago, PigFish said:

Look people, don't go wetting yourself over my bringing it up... It is just an example

I won’t ?. But - certainly not the most fitting example, Ray. I get where you’re coming from, and I do share that (well most of it) notion. But as Bijan correctly states wearing as mask in public (you are not requested to do so in private or where distancing can be kept to) is first and foremost a service done to your fellow human beings, to the community.

Smoking a cigar is entirely your own / my own private affair.

And to put it clear and precise: Not a public matter, neither one of public interest or concern, and most certainly not something that needs govtal “regulation” what-so-ever.

Cheers mate!

[Trimming]

https://www.rstreet.org/2012/08/01/the-health-risks-of-cigar-smoking/

[Buffalo]

I wonder if any of the FOH forum participants personally know of anyone who's health has suffered in some way, seemingly from cigar smoking.

[vhampl03]

A podcast host that I listen to described his response to people who ask about the risk of cigar smoking this way - “well I guess I could be too relaxed or too happy...”    

But on a serious note,  all of life is assessing risk and adjusting behavior....cigar smoking is a risk I’m very happy taking...the reward is so much better than my perceived risk

I think Piggy’s point wasn’t that we shouldn’t wear masks but was rather a warning on the use of statistics (remember that Mark Twain quote)...

I feel confident I could author a paper showing that cigar smokers are healthier and live longer than the general population....but that’s likely a function of socio-economic factors and that this hobby tends to skew toward those who have more time and resources.   But we know that correlation is not causation!  

 

 

 

[DaBoot]

I believe most studies are skewed to project the outcome sought these days. 
also, a person smoking 5+ cigars a day may have a different lifestyle of diet and exercise than a 1 a day smoker. Beyond the fear these agencies are pushing...

live life free, as you see fit, enjoy the ride friends, you only get 1 ticket

[PigFish]

 

7 hours ago, Fugu said:

I won’t ?. But -

 

... Paul... of all people.

I want you to go to 

... and recover. 

A Thanksgiving day song for you and my other friends!

Oh... and for my purposes, it was the perfect example! Love you mate!

-Piggy

 

[PigFish]

2 hours ago, Buffalo said:

I wonder if any of the FOH forum participants personally know of anyone who's health has suffered in some way, seemingly from cigar smoking.

Yes.

My father died at 66 of heart disease. And if it suits the purpose of any study, you might as well blame cigars!!!

Cheers! -Piggy

[La_Tigre]

On 11/26/2020 at 8:15 AM, Buffalo said:

I wonder if any of the FOH forum participants personally know of anyone who's health has suffered in some way, seemingly from cigar smoking.

Didn’t work out so well for this guy...???

[Buffalo]

Quote

Yes. My father died at 66 of heart disease. 

I'm sorry for your loss.

   

[PigFish]

6 minutes ago, Buffalo said:

I'm sorry for you loss.

   

Thank you. I miss him everyday. Believer, renowned physicist, brilliant, fine father. I will see him again!

Smoked cheap cigars and would admonish me for buying cigars from Cuba!

cheers piggy

[Fugu]

3 hours ago, PigFish said:

Oh... and for my purposes, it was the perfect example!

Ok, perhaps I completely misread your statement, sorry. Sure, if meant as an example for an abortive study design then I go fully conform with you! Just goes to show how important it is to ask the right questions before applying any statistics w/o further reflection. ?

[Cairo]

18 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

Yes, but all cigars are not equal. I could smoke 7 Perlas a day. That's another issue with the data. Cigars are not uniform as cigarettes generally are. What does "2 cigars per day" really mean? 

Excellent comment.   Now that I think about it, for the five coldest months of the year I only smoke small cigars.    Does the Cohiba or Trini short or Party Chicos count as a "cigar"?      Five of those probably have less tobacco than one SW.    Apples and oranges turn statistics into silliness.

[NSXCIGAR]

On 11/26/2020 at 6:15 AM, Buffalo said:

I wonder if any of the FOH forum participants personally know of anyone who's health has suffered in some way, seemingly from cigar smoking.

Another one taken too young:

[Ken Gargett]

just found this thread.

it would be idiotic not to at least consider or recognise the risks. 

personally, i smoke far less cigars than most on the forum (i know that with the vids and everything, that might seem strange - years ago when i told my health fund, they said, put yourself down as a non-smoker. never had a cigarette in my life. but i do know that i am taking a risk. when i travel overseas or go on the annual fishing holidays, i smoke quite a few, but just at home, will often go for a while without one. often a long while. 

but there are people with lung cancer who have never smoked a single cigar or cigarette. very tough luck.

for the first part of my working life, i was in cities - brizzy, london, sydney, DC. five, often seven, days a week in high rise. working there, walking about, getting food, meeting friends, having meetings. one breathed the air offered by those cities. i would expect 2-4 colds (some serious) and perhaps a dose of the flu every year. it was simply part of the deal. you work in a city, diseases etc, germs, infections, get spread (am not wanting to start yet another covid thread).

then i started working from home (and travelling) when i moved from law to wine. lived on the gold coast and now for the last 13 years or so in the suburbs of brizzy, though they are almost closer to the bush than the suburbs. in the last 25-30 years, i would have had may be 3-5 colds (i reckon almost all of them from travel on planes).

what i am trying to say is that i really do think that all the crap you breathe when working/living in a city is also very bad (not a doctor so would not try and estimate a comparison - ray, perhaps someone should commission a study?). anyone getting sick may find it was not cigars but low quality air. or it might be a single cigar. who knows? 

as for cravings for cigars, there are times when i have craved a cigar but i do not believe it was nicotine cravings. i just wanted a cigar for all that a cigar offers. and the fact that i'll often go a week or more without one, surely that means the cravings are not there. 

 

[Buffalo]

Six years ago, my younger son struggled with some psychiatric challenges. After work, I would visit him at the hospital, return home, and then had to unpack and sort through all that was weighing on my mind. It was a tense and trying time. After dinner, late in the evening, I would find a decompressing moment of solace with a cigar on my porch. As I have pondered the potential health risks of cigar smoking, I am also convinced that the act of smoking a cigar is therapeutic for my mind and soul. There are two sides to this coin.

[CaptainQuintero]

  It's a managed risk, I think a reasonably low risk one if you are sensible, probably not far off comparable to eating meat, and then eating red meat, drinking alcohol, living in a built up area due to pollution, being overweight etc. But there's no guarantees in life.

  There's enough horrible stuff in life that I think it would be a pretty miserable existence to deny yourself small pleasures on the chance of getting an extra few years. You could drop dead at the end of a long life without any pleasures, you could drop dead at the end of a long life of excess, you could drop dead today. None of us are getting out of this alive and whilst that's not a free licence to chainsmoke crack and live off fast food (Unless you wish to) life is there to be lived and enjoyed. You can only try to balance out risk/reward as much as possible, but you can't do a risk assessment on fate

  This year if anything has shown you've no idea what round the corner, make friends, laugh, love and enjoy yourselves

[WABOOM]

I don't know if it's been mentioned, but a recent FDA study found that 1-2 premium cigars per day carried a "nearly nil increased risk for increased cancer risk".

[NSXCIGAR]

5 hours ago, WABOOM said:

I don't know if it's been mentioned, but a recent FDA study found that 1-2 premium cigars per day carried a "nearly nil increased risk for increased cancer risk".

Yes, been cited several times in this thread. 

https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12889-015-1617-5

[Bijan]

5 hours ago, WABOOM said:

I don't know if it's been mentioned, but a recent FDA study found that 1-2 premium cigars per day carried a "nearly nil increased risk for increased cancer risk".

Mentioned several times. Not quite what you're saying though. Did increase risk of several cancers (oral, pharyngeal, laryngeal, esophageal, pancreatic, lung depending on inhalation) but increase to overall mortality was quite low.