RECOMMENDATIONS: Partagás P2 Box Codes

[AusDyer]

Hi all,

I am looking for recommendations for Partagás P2 box codes. I've had a couple of P2s lately that were really good. They had very light wrappers (with a nice rosado tint), quite loose and even rolls with easy draws and a rich box aroma. Flavours were like rich cedarwood, coffee bean, baking spices, white pepper and a hint of a creamy Parmesan cheese type complexity... if that makes sense to anyone and doesn't sound pretentious.

Can anyone who knows their boxes well recommend any particular date/codes that match this description? Sadly, my cigar merchant just dumps their cigars out into display trays and keeps no record of what's what. Again, what I'm looking for is: 1. Even give/open bunching at foot/loose roll, 2. Light wrappers, 3. Rich yet delicate complexity

Unfortunately, every other P2 I've tried since just doesn't match up and seem to have a less complex caramel-base flavour, usually darker wrappers and often firmer bunching. I've had the more savoury and complex character before in some D4s too, which also had the lighter wrappers. However, light wrappers alone don't seem to guarantee it. I need help and sound advice from experts here. Someone must know of certain date/codes that match this.

Many thanks in advance!

[Riverstyx]

CCs are like golf after hitting that perfect shot.  You keep expecting to hit it again, but it doesn't come...until you're right on the cusp of taking a break.  They are as inconsistent as my golf game too - good luck, but it will be difficult to find a P2 that matches it...until you do.

 

[AusDyer]

7 minutes ago, Lrabold89 said:

Loose bunching at foot???? Why would anyone want this


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Because nearly every great Havana cigar I've ever had has been rolled loose. I've been smoking cigars for over 16 years and always wanted to find good firm rolls that draw well, but more often than not, they don't with Cuban cigars. They mostly will draw adequately, sure, but strangle the flavours off somewhat. These P2s I had were incredible and very loose, but with just a nice hint of "elastic" resistance. Of course you can find complete "wind tunnels" that don't burn well, overheat easily or even are just clearly missing some element to the blend or something and don't have great flavour. That's a different matter and applies equally to any roll quality.
 

15 minutes ago, Riverstyx said:

CCs are like golf after hitting that perfect shot.  You keep expecting to hit it again, but it doesn't come...until you're right on the cusp of taking a break.  They are as inconsistent as my golf game too - good luck, but it will be difficult to find a P2 that matches it...until you do.

 

I agree with that but I've gone through this before many times and sometimes managed to get the box code/date of the cigars that were outstanding. After sourcing more boxes of the exact same code and wrapper shade, I found the same great quality. That's why I'm asking for experienced recommendations on box codes.

[Bijan]

6 minutes ago, Lrabold89 said:

Loose bunching at foot???? Why would anyone want this


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I like this too. Not wind tunnel of course. But certain cigars are often too tightly bunched. Less so on Robustos and piramides though...

[Bijan]

2 minutes ago, Lrabold89 said:

I find that piramides are often tightly bunched at the foot just by the very fact of how they’re rolled


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Interesting I smoke mainly Monte 2 in that vitola and haven't found that to be the case. But maybe I was lucky as others report much more inconsistent results than I have had.

 

[AusDyer]

My most recent one was a box of 10 Monte 2s. I decided on a whim to grab a box of 10 (if I found one that looked like it might be good). The very first box I opened in my local B&M was oozing oil, dark choc wrappers and loose bunching at the feet. After feeling a few, they all seemed to have perfectly even give throughout (no tight feeling spots). I bought them immediately and smoked one the following day to try out. It was the best Montecristo #2 I've ever smoked in my life.

Immediately, I went back and asked to look through their other boxes. None of them came close to the look, feel and potent box aroma. They kindly noted down the box code I gave them and found 2 more boxes of 10 from the same code in stock at another of their stores and had them sent over to my local. I checked them out and sure enough both of these other boxes were almost identical. I smoked 2 from one of the other boxes and another 3 from the original box I bought. Every last one has been amazing. They are crying out for a few years' aging though, because they're incredible already at a very young age and have plenty of richness and power in the back end to indicate that a few more years will improve them even more. So, I've had to bite my lip and squirrel them away.

As is usually the case, these Monte 2s are loosely rolled, which is evident at the foot and from feeling the give along the length of each cigar. The draw is very easy, but still has a subtle pull to it. The box aroma is potent and gorgeous and the wrappers dark and very oily. They are very rich medium-full, milk chocolate, oaky, lashings of cream, coffee, black pepper and a hint of honey. I've also had Monte 2s which were sickly pale with a bright yellow tint, covered in little white water spots and had a completely different flavour - very light, cedarwood, white chocolate, cream and a little baking spice. Then, of course, there's the majority of them which I find tend to be thoroughly bland or even acrid (especially when tight). The wild variation in Havanas is bizarre when you consider how incredibly consistent many other cigar manufacturers can be.

[Bijan]

17 minutes ago, AusDyer said:

The wild variation in Havanas is bizarre when you consider how incredibly consistent many other cigar manufacturers can be.

My theory and I have no data to back it up is that Cuba sells 100% of its premium tobacco and could sell more if more were available. So they are limited by supply  This gives them little incentive to do certain things. Probably explains this as they are making as many Monte 2s as possible and the only way to have higher quality is to take higher quality tobacco from other vitolas or sell less. Similarly explains why they don't make lonsdales while most non Cubans can throw one into one of their lines: that limited large wrapper can more profitably be used elsewhere.

Anyways just a theory. Others with more knowledge of the Cuban cigar business logistics can now demolish it.

[AusDyer]

Sadly, greedy profiteering always damages the quality of products. It always happens once some management school team sees that a great product is selling really well, so they decide why settle for making huge profits when we could make enormous profits by cutting corners and selling some junk with a shiny label instead? Especially with luxury goods like fine cigars, you can sell a lot of relatively complete rubbish with a "limited" label and 3 bands for many times it's worth, and by the time people have realised they're not very good, they've all sold anyway and you move onto the next special release that everyone will buy no-matter how average or poor it is. If you actually make an exquisite cigar, sell it for a year or two, then swap the blend to something cheaper and not very good et voila... many people will keep buying it anyway and your profits will skyrocket.

[mprach024]

4 hours ago, Bijan said:

My theory and I have no data to back it up is that Cuba sells 100% of its premium tobacco and could sell more if more were available. So they are limited by supply  This gives them little incentive to do certain things. Probably explains this as they are making as many Monte 2s as possible and the only way to have higher quality is to take higher quality tobacco from other vitolas or sell less. Similarly explains why they don't make lonsdales while most non Cubans can throw one into one of their lines: that limited large wrapper can more profitably be used elsewhere.

Anyways just a theory. Others with more knowledge of the Cuban cigar business logistics can now demolish it.

Or....cause it’s a communist run government controlled entity.  Communism is not really well known or synonymous with quality control.  Even in non-communist countries, government run organizations are rarely efficient.  The IRS comes to mind.

[Bijan]

6 minutes ago, mprach024 said:

Or....cause it’s a communist run government controlled entity.  Communism is not really well known or synonymous with quality control.  Even in non-communist countries, government run organizations are rarely efficient.  The IRS comes to mind.

Two things:

Firstly my comments applied to the wrapper quality (and possibly tobacco quality in general), and not the poor rolling and quality control that make some cigars too tight or plugged and others too loose.

Secondly It's half owned by foreign capitalists. I agree with you that the communist half probably doesn't know how to maximize profit or how best to market goods. But since the foreign involvement, they've gotten rid of 2/3 of vitolas that didn't sell but were basically kept since the revolution, and done a lot to cash in by releasing ELs and REs at twice the price of regular production, which sell out and probably bring in tons of cash.

[NickV]

Two things:
Firstly my comments applied to the wrapper quality (and possibly tobacco quality in general), and not the poor rolling and quality control that make some cigars too tight or plugged and others too loose.
Secondly It's half owned by foreign capitalists. I agree with you that the communist half probably doesn't know how to maximize profit or how best to market goods. But since the foreign involvement, they've gotten rid of 2/3 of vitolas that didn't sell but were basically kept since the revolution, and done a lot to cash in by releasing ELs and REs at twice the price of regular production, which sell out and probably bring in tons of cash.

My suspicion is the communist government controls the means of production which is why the supply never meets the demand. The foreign investors control what vitolas to roll, marketing, and prices to maximize profits. Leads to basically what you say above.


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[Bijan]

3 minutes ago, NickV said:

My suspicion is the communist government controls the means of production which is why the supply never meets the demand. The foreign investors control what vitolas to roll, marketing, and prices to maximize profits. Leads to basically what you say above.

I think this may explain some of it. But it's a unique micro climate they have which all the capitalist producers in other countries have not managed to reproduce. And Cuba produces a lot of other qualities of tobacco in other regions of the island which are not used for premium cigars. So I think the supply limit may not be entirely due to mismanagement though you're right that it is part of it.

[mprach024]

36 minutes ago, Bijan said:

Two things:

Firstly my comments applied to the wrapper quality (and possibly tobacco quality in general), and not the poor rolling and quality control that make some cigars too tight or plugged and others too loose.

Secondly It's half owned by foreign capitalists. I agree with you that the communist half probably doesn't know how to maximize profit or how best to market goods. But since the foreign involvement, they've gotten rid of 2/3 of vitolas that didn't sell but were basically kept since the revolution, and done a lot to cash in by releasing ELs and REs at twice the price of regular production, which sell out and probably bring in tons of cash.

I always thought the “second half” of ownership referred to distribution and sales.  I did not think there was any capitalist corporation involvement in production.  

[Bijan]

Just now, mprach024 said:

I always thought the “second half” of ownership referred to distribution and sales.  I did not think there was any capitalist corporation involvement in production.  

Perhaps you are right. I will have to check what role and power they have. But my thinking is that if they make half the profits and handle distribution and sales they are not without incentive and leverage. And since this is a large chunk of Cuba's exports the government half doesn't have much incentive to block profitable changes.

[mprach024]

1 minute ago, Bijan said:

I think this may explain some of it. But it's a unique micro climate they have which all the capitalist producers in other countries have not managed to reproduce. And Cuba produces a lot of other qualities of tobacco in other regions of the island which are not used for premium cigars. So I think the supply limit may not be entirely due to mismanagement though you're right that it is part of it.

Agree here.  I think we are changing points, the narrative I referred to was around cause for inconsistencies. 

[Bijan]

Just now, mprach024 said:

Agree here.  I think we are changing points, the narrative I referred to was around cause for inconsistencies. 

Oh ok we are definitely talking about different things I should have been more clear.

I was taking about why some boxes would have silky and or oily wrappers or otherwise nice wrappers and other boxes would have ugly wrappers with water marks. It's not like they are throwing good wrappers in the garbage they just don't have the supply.

I agree with you on inconsistencies in construction and rolling caused by poor quality control.