London..... a dead concept?

[99call]

A question out to the the wonderful world of FOH.      Outside of the UK, which other major nation is run by a single all encompassing city?

For those who have never been to London.   It's a great city, but only in the respect it is full of history (but most of the UK is)  and there are few 3 michelin star restaurants....thats it.   The negative side to London is exhaustive.  it's expensive, the people that live their are transitory, and largely don't give a shit about each other or the place, it's full of corruption..........it's also more importantly than any other point, dead and useless as to it's original function. a functional harbour of trading. 

In the height of the cotton/slavery trade it would be an interesting argument to work out whether Liverpool or London was a more important city/dock in the geography of the UK.  That said post the industrial age, Margret Thatcher and the Tories constructively saw to the death of the North, they actively made it happen. The only thing left in Liverpool was job centres.......but no jobs.  This is living proof that a city like London, can be swept aside, and the UK will still continue.  it's just a dead port nothing more.

My question is this........What's the purpose of London?  and why protect it?  I cant think of another developed country whereby the powers that be,  have for so long centralised authority within one city alone.. at the cost of all others. 

It's such a perverse situation in the UK currently.   Everyone in Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales, the North of England , the South West of England,  we all essentially get along with one another, as we have poverty in common, we have common ground.  We also to large extent all hate London.    For me personally I would be happy if it were swept down the river Thames and floated out to sea.     It's a rotten vampire state. 

All that said,  I have a resolution. All of the corrupt ministers and bureaucrats would be happy if we built a wall around London and legally turned it into what it already is, a tax haven to the oligarchy.   A Montecarlo, or  Virgin Islands etc etc.       

Sorry,  it's been a tough week to be a Northerner,   we are constantly faced with the rule of this toxic city, for no good reason.... and we want it dead.....forgotten.....and gone

 

[Hammer Smokin']

Sounds like Toronto.

Quite literally.

[99call]

Just now, Hammer Smokin' said:

Sounds like Toronto.

Quite literally.

It's weird i'm both relieved we're not the only ones that have to deal with this bullshit,   but in the same breath I'm instantly angry on your behalf. 

[mprach024]

I feel like the majority of the questions you asked are rhetorical....am I correct in my assessment?  ?

Sorry you had a bad week boss.  Where in the North are you? 

[El Presidente]

2 hours ago, 99call said:

For those who have never been to London.   It's a great city, but only in the respect it is full of history (but most of the UK is)  and there are few 3 michelin star restaurants....thats it.  

From an OS visitors perspective it is one of the great cities of the world 

• superb food
• brilliant service 
• vibrant
• history
• great cigar culture
• hotels that provide a civilised area to smoke
• quirky
• friendly
• confusing
• tube
• ridiculous excess
• eccentric characters 

[Lomey]

As an outsider I personally loved my visit to London, but understand it was a vacation and in no way understand the politics there.

Your point sounds a lot like what us Midwesterners in the US think. We are tired of being thought of as a flyover territory while we feed the nation. No offense to the brothers here that live on the coasts, but we get tired of being treated like we are somewhat less while they continue to leave where they live to come to our friendly States with a low cost of living...and then try and turn it into where they wanted out of. Makes no sense.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[Kaptain Karl]

Sounds like California to the rest of the USA. This once was a great state now I was proud to be from. Now the one party oligarchy is running itself into the ground and repopulating other states with priced out, brain washed refugees who bring this state’s failed politics to other states where it’s 3x cheaper to live. I do mortgages and it’s shocking the volume of people who are fleeing the state. It’s also shocking that behind them moving here are wealthy techies who are now fleeing the inner metropolitan areas...housing prices here are up 6% since June! 

[mprach024]

I love London.  Been there as a tourist and for work.  Granted my exposure is quite limited to fancy hotels, tourist traps, nice restaurants, corporate buildings and football stadiums.  
 

I live in Michigan, I’ve lived on both coasts at one point in my life.  I personally am not bothered what NY or LA think of Michigan, I enjoyed my time on both coasts, but would never want to live there again.  I’ll stay here for as long as I can.  The ones that look down on the Midwest are ones that have never spent time in this beautiful, smog free, fire free, hurricane free state.  ***Fast forward to February In Michigan***   Forget everything I said before I hate living here.

[ReelMan]

This is an easy subject to answer, but if you want the proof of what I say here you must do research.  I work with some of the low-key regulatory agencies, and this is what they taught me.

The City of London (the 1 sq. mile that is the financial district) has been the home of financial transactions relating to war, usurpation and underhanded nation-state dealings around the world.  They have been immune from prosecution (when it was occasionally proved) because they have a charter from 1652 signed by The King.  It was negotiated by the OG Rothschild scion. In that perpetual lease is contained immunity from prosecution (and the Crown gets a 5% commission on all transactions).

These are the same fine, upper-crust folks that brought you the concept of fractional banking, credit default swaps, CDO's and bundled mortgages.  The whole City, as well as the surrounding area, are rife with treachery, scandal and rigging (Hello, LIBOR !) .  They own the govt., the monarchy and The Bank of England (which is privately owned, as is the Fed Bank).

The UK joined the EU for one very simple reason; the UK and the EU decided that, as a hedge against either area being pulled down financially, there needed to be a domicile where all speculative financial transactions could be parked (with the parking country playing along by offering tax incentives and getting a cut).  That country was N. Ireland.  But the Brits had to get N. Ireland to stop "the troubles".  Enter the Good Friday Agreements, which was really more of a contract than a peace deal.  N. Ireland, as a part of the EU now, was essentially "ring fenced" in order to hold the now $137 TRILLION in paper assets that are called "derivatives".  There is no way that these debts could be covered if it all goes south.  

When the mortgage crisis hit, it was the N. Ireland offices of Bear Stearns and Barclays that could not cover the underwater mortgages when the Chinese govt. called to cash out their position, so they simply transferred the debt to the U.S. branches when those loans were called.  This, then, started a chain reaction with other banks.  The Great Recession followed.

In 2015, the UK decided that they no longer wanted part of the massive exposure to the above mentioned debt, as it was truly out of control.  They decided to stick the EU with all of it.

Hence, the Leave campaign.

Lovely country with truly wonderful people.  But the City has destroyed their own countrymen and those of other countries worldwide, as well.  To those of you whom live on the outside of the city, you have my deepest condolences.  

[multi-useless]

9 hours ago, Lomey said:

As an outsider I personally loved my visit to London, but understand it was a vacation and in no way understand the politics there.

Your point sounds a lot like what us Midwesterners in the US think. We are tired of being thought of as a flyover territory while we feed the nation. No offense to the brothers here that live on the coasts, but we get tired of being treated like we are somewhat less while they continue to leave where they live to come to our friendly States with a low cost of living...and then try and turn it into where they wanted out of. Makes no sense.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 

Very much this.  I’m in the St Louis area - you’re in KC, right?

 

The Midwest produces a lot of food and manufactures a lot of things, so yeah, kinda important... 

[Ej456]

Don’t believe the hype. Nice fish!

[99call]

8 hours ago, mprach024 said:

I feel like the majority of the questions you asked are rhetorical....am I correct in my assessment?  ?

Sorry you had a bad week boss.  Where in the North are you? 

Very much so, but it's was put up to be torn to bits, if people felt differently   

Manchester

[Meklown]

I lived in London for a few years for studies previously. Loved the place. Felt that it was old but always bustling. When I went up to northern England for holidays I never really liked any of the cities, but Scotland was always beautiful to me. Always felt like it was filled with hooliganism (Scots seemed more mild mannered and cultured). 

I read only a little about the lockdown situation in Manchester and I'm conflicted to say the least. Politicians all over the world are using covid as an excuse to advance their political ideology. But from my perspective, it gives any central government no joy in forcing shops to close (in any part of the country). It is only amidst rising cases that they are forced to do so. It is also confusing to me that the same people who are openly bashing centrally planned economies / communists are asking for socialist bailouts themselves. 

None of this is to excuse any bad behavior. This is a horrible situation for all of us to be in and very few are coming out the other side looking better. NZ's Arden could be one but there are still doubts that she can be a good administrator of the economy. But well, politics. 

[99call]

7 hours ago, El Presidente said:

From an OS visitors perspective it is one of the great cities of the world 

• superb food
• brilliant service 
• vibrant
• history
• great cigar culture
• hotels that provide a civilised area to smoke
• quirky
• friendly
• confusing
• tube
• ridiculous excess
• eccentric characters 

I think in terms of a Disneyland of decadency, it's up there with the best places in the world,  and for a visitor, I can see the attraction. 

I guess my critique having lived there on two stints, is that it's not a real place. Like with many playgrounds of the rich, it organically grown into a sort of perverse thoroughfare of money and transient people, which is fine, but the country should be honest with itself with what London is.   It's not the bright shining standard and the way forward for the rest of the country,  The Tories for some odd reason don't actually want the other major cities in the UK, to thrive, of develop into the new London's,   they want them as the poor relation that begs for their own taxes back, like scraps of the table. 

Of course London will never self designate its self as some sort of separrate state, or tax free zone (on paper anyway), as they with never give up the reigns of power over the Union.     But my core point, is that what a bloody mess it is,  the Union is currently looking extremely weak,   but it's not because people in rest of the country are at odds with one another,  it's dismay and disillusionment with Westminster and London, and rule that comes from a place and understanding which is at complete odds with any other corner of these lands.

I think London would be a massive success a tax haven, and sort of Hong Kong like enterprise.   but currently in the UK it seem like in order for London to shine brightest, the lights have to be turned off in the rest of the Union

[La_Tigre]

The electoral college seems to be the only balance preventing NY, CHI, HOU and LA setting all rule. I know you posed single city rule but this is a very similar comparison in regard to land size. 

[99call]

6 minutes ago, Meklown said:

I read only a little about the lockdown situation in Manchester and I'm conflicted to say the least. Politicians all over the world are using covid as an excuse to advance their political ideology.

Apologies, but this simply isn't true.  This is the story that the tabloids have put out there, but it's not true. 

Andy Burnham the Manchester Mayor, was simply trying to point out that due to the fact Manchester has already endured a great deal of restrictions, it was in a much more delicate economic position to other parts of the country.  Affectively the government were just using some sort of generic per head package, and it did not take into account any of the unique conditions.  Two of my friends businesses have just gone under very recently, and it's because they were on this critical knife edge.

The story put in the papers is that the North are a bunch of idiots going out partying and spreading the covid all over the place.   The reality is that we have been forced to be on Londons clock when it comes to the R rate.   Manchester was forced to go into lockdown, simply because the R rate in London at the time was critical.  Then because of this lag, the Tories then took us out of lock down, when we weren't ready, i.e our R rate had never really got below 1, but because London was fine,  the nation was told to get out and go to restaurants.      Our national scientific advisors, have confirmed that the high infection rate the North, is that we were following the national actions that were orchestrated with what suited London.........absolute madness

[shippers]

Having recently moved back to the North (Liverpool) from London I can certainly see both sides. It does take the majority of gov funding and being back in Liverpool now highlights that. A rebalance in spending between cities would certainly be a good thing and perhaps post COVID we might see it - at least privately. Many people have left the city during this pandemic and in some cases like mine took the good job with them.

But I do miss London. The tube is frustrating and people are often too busy for basic manners. But it is (by stealing all the money) in a different league to other UK cities. Liverpool feels small to me now. It doesn't have the same world class theaters, bars, restaurants, parks and so on. I miss being able to walk into JJFox or Dunhill 1A and sit with a smoke.

However one day Liverpool like Manchester will reopen and perhaps I can feel more at home. Moving in a pandemic is a strange experience. First stop shall be the Puffin Rooms (a local cigar & jazz lounge)!

[NSXCIGAR]

The Vatican. 

[99call]

5 minutes ago, shippers said:

Having recently moved back to the North (Liverpool) from London I can certainly see both sides. It does take the majority of gov funding and being back in Liverpool now highlights that. A rebalance in spending between cities would certainly be a good thing and perhaps post COVID we might see it - at least privately. Many people have left the city during this pandemic and in some cases like mine took the good job with them.

Always good to get a Northerner back. 

For me one of the most ridiculous moments over the last year was the decision to mov ahead with HS2 in preference over HS3.  That really spelt is out to me that Westminster couldn't care less about a 'Northern Powerhouse'  it's just a rouse to win redwall voters.   Commuters need to get from Manchester to London 45minutes faster like it need a kick in the balls. 

I recently did a stint of work in Leeds, and commuting on the train, felt like I was in North Korea.  Routinely have 6 services cancelled one after another,  witnessed disabled people with no access to get off platforms.   People forcing elderly people to the floor as they crammed themselves on fit to burst carriages that were from the 1950's.   Absolutely scandalous and pathetic. 

A modern fast train service running from Liverpool, Manchester, Leeds, Newcastle would be a life line to the North......but no  London first

 

[Meklown]

50 minutes ago, 99call said:

Apologies, but this simply isn't true.  This is the story that the tabloids have put out there, but it's not true. 

Andy Burnham the Manchester Mayor, was simply trying to point out that due to the fact Manchester has already endured a great deal of restrictions, it was in a much more delicate economic position to other parts of the country.  Affectively the government were just using some sort of generic per head package, and it did not take into account any of the unique conditions.  Two of my friends businesses have just gone under very recently, and it's because they were on this critical knife edge.

The story put in the papers is that the North are a bunch of idiots going out partying and spreading the covid all over the place.   The reality is that we have been forced to be on Londons clock when it comes to the R rate.   Manchester was forced to go into lockdown, simply because the R rate in London at the time was critical.  Then because of this lag, the Tories then took us out of lock down, when we weren't ready, i.e our R rate had never really got below 1, but because London was fine,  the nation was told to get out and go to restaurants.      Our national scientific advisors, have confirmed that the high infection rate the North, is that we were following the national actions that were orchestrated with what suited London.........absolute madness

Like I said, I only have limited information about the Manchester situation so I'm sorry if I misunderstood in any way! 

However, the statement that you quoted, to me, applies more to everywhere in the world, not exclusive to the UK. China, US, UK, Brazil, India, everyone is indeed culpable. As you may infer, I am not a fan of politicians in general, to put it lightly. Covid only exacerbates this. 

[99call]

5 minutes ago, Meklown said:

Like I said, I only have limited information about the Manchester situation so I'm sorry if I misunderstood in any way! 

However, the statement that you quoted, to me, applies more to everywhere in the world, not exclusive to the UK. China, US, UK, Brazil, India, everyone is indeed culpable. As you may infer, I am not a fan of politicians in general, to put it lightly. Covid only exacerbates this. 

Sorry if it seemed that way, but I was definitely not having a go at you, rather just highlighting the actual situation, and the lies that are being spun by our government. 

You're 100% correct about covid exacerbating problems.   I would suggest Covid coming slap bang in the height of the post-trust era, couldn't have been worse timing.    I would suggest the governments that have faired best have been ones with non-egotistical, down to earth, hard working, empathetic, and forward thinking leadership. 

Covid doesn't react well to BS and lies, and egomaniacs.  In the UK, we have a glorified after dinner speaker as the helm of our sinking ship,  and covid has allowed everyone to see Boris for what we all knew him to be.  a cack handed, poorly qualified, egotist, who only wanted to be PM, for the cash and prestige it offers post leaving office.    You can see it in his face now,  he's bored of the job,  and he doesn't like having his homework marked for the country to see.........Fail.......Fail.......Fail

[shippers]

1 hour ago, 99call said:

Always good to get a Northerner back.

For me one of the most ridiculous moments over the last year was the decision to mov ahead with HS2 in preference over HS3. That really spelt is out to me that Westminster couldn't care less about a 'Northern Powerhouse' it's just a rouse to win redwall voters. Commuters need to get from Manchester to London 45minutes faster like it need a kick in the balls.

I recently did a stint of work in Leeds, and commuting on the train, felt like I was in North Korea. Routinely have 6 services cancelled one after another, witnessed disabled people with no access to get off platforms. People forcing elderly people to the floor as they crammed themselves on fit to burst carriages that were from the 1950's. Absolutely scandalous and pathetic.

A modern fast train service running from Liverpool, Manchester, Leeds, Newcastle would be a life line to the North......but no London first

 

?- Good to be back! Despite missing London I am loving more space at home for less money.

Being WFH I won't need to commute to Manchester thankfully but I used to commute from Liverpool Lime St. to Stockport daily. Nightmare.

Public Transport needs to improve throughout the UK. It is over capacity and lacking investment. God knows how many times I have been asked to move down on a train to make standing room when I'm already intimate with a strangers armpit. Yet TFL want more money for the tube... no sorry - mainline trains need it more.

In a post COVID world do we really need to get to London super fast?! I doubt it.

[Webbo]

This is a subject very close to my heart after recently moving back to the North (near Sheffield) after living in central Europe and then London. Its absolutely true that London is the focus of everything in the UK and the Government is so clearly London-centric for all policies and spending it is untrue. It is however a wonderful city for the reasons many have already listed but with a myriad of huge problems that are I believe related almost entirely to property prices and the resulting change in demographics. I don't know anywhere in the world where the cost of property is so high and so widespread, for a city of 10-15 million people the value for money must be the worst in the world. For those who don't know London only  a small part is the bit you see in films and TV, the vast majority of people live nowhere near the famous tourist attractions, they are in the suburbs of what geographically is an enormous sprawling conurbation (1000 sq miles).

The price of a small, dirty one bedroom flat/apartment in an area in "Greater London" you would not want to walk around in after dark, above a kebab shop, 5 miles from the city center, START around £500K ($700kUS). In London if you are not renting (eye watering prices get you nothing) then you have to be either extremely rich, a family home from your parents or live in council rented accommodation (impossible to get and often in areas you would never want to set foot). To buy anything half decent (and I mean half) prices start at £1m and that gets you nothing remotely close to the center. For nicer areas closer to the center or a park then double this, again I am talking about extremely small apartments not houses. So much property in central London is left empty having been bought as investments by Russians, Middle Easterners, Chinese its ridiculous.

The result of these property prices has resulted in the demographic change in London meaning the middle class is squeezed out more and more leaving only the poor and the rich.

I would finish by saying that while I am now back in Yorkshire and living 100 meters from the start of the Peak District (one of the most beautiful areas in the world I honestly believe) I miss London, for all its faults and problems, I miss central Europe too.

From tonight Liverpool, Manchester, Sheffield and other northern cities go into full Covid lock-down in the highest tier 3 level , surprise surprise London does not and stays level 2.

[SCgarman]

13 hours ago, 99call said:

A question out to the the wonderful world of FOH.      Outside of the UK, which other major nation is run by a single all encompassing city?

For those who have never been to London.   It's a great city, but only in the respect it is full of history (but most of the UK is)  and there are few 3 michelin star restaurants....thats it.   The negative side to London is exhaustive.  it's expensive, the people that live their are transitory, and largely don't give a shit about each other or the place, it's full of corruption..........it's also more importantly than any other point, dead and useless as to it's original function. a functional harbour of trading. 

In the height of the cotton/slavery trade it would be an interesting argument to work out whether Liverpool or London was a more important city/dock in the geography of the UK.  That said post the industrial age, Margret Thatcher and the Tories constructively saw to the death of the North, they actively made it happen. The only thing left in Liverpool was job centres.......but no jobs.  This is living proof that a city like London, can be swept aside, and the UK will still continue.  it's just a dead port nothing more.

My question is this........What's the purpose of London?  and why protect it?  I cant think of another developed country whereby the powers that be,  have for so long centralised authority within one city alone.. at the cost of all others. 

It's such a perverse situation in the UK currently.   Everyone in Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales, the North of England , the South West of England,  we all essentially get along with one another, as we have poverty in common, we have common ground.  We also to large extent all hate London.    For me personally I would be happy if it were swept down the river Thames and floated out to sea.     It's a rotten vampire state. 

All that said,  I have a resolution. All of the corrupt ministers and bureaucrats would be happy if we built a wall around London and legally turned it into what it already is, a tax haven to the oligarchy.   A Montecarlo, or  Virgin Islands etc etc.       

Sorry,  it's been a tough week to be a Northerner,   we are constantly faced with the rule of this toxic city, for no good reason.... and we want it dead.....forgotten.....and gone

 

What is going on there with crime? I belong to a Rolex watch forum, and apparently there are many issues with moped gangs who case out pedestrians wearing Rolex and other high end Swiss watches and rob them. And seems the only ones that have weapons are the ones committing the crimes. WTH? I wear a solid 18K Rolex and feel totally safe in my city. But would have reservations even visiting London as a tourist, let alone taking my wife and teenage daughter there.

[Puros Y Vino]

Your London woes do sound a bit like what we have going on in Toronto.  I'd like to visit London but the biggest factors for me are that converting my CAD$ would land me in the poorhouse not only on the exchange but from what I understand, London can be an expensive city to visit.  Second, for an extra hours' flight, I'd rather be in Italy.