Why do we get whole boxes of bad (and good) smokes?

[RDB]

Serious question, not a whine about Cuban quality control. Most of my boxes are good, some reliably great, and a small proportion reliably poor. By poor I mean they just don’t taste good and the experience is unsatisfying. You get through seven or eight and you just know the rest are the same.

The thing that puzzles me is when you get a whole box like this. I always expect one or two out of 25 to have bad construction or just not be as enjoyable as the others. But why a whole box? I thought Cubans were generally rolled by several different torcedores, then sorted by wrapper colour into different boxes. So any box is likely to have been rolled by multiple different individuals. But what about the tobacco they are using? Are they using different bundles or the same kind of stock? 
 

My guess about the ‘bad box’ is that you sometimes have a group of rollers all working with a batch of not very good tobacco. So multiple people make sticks, but they are all using poor leaf. Same thing in reverse for good boxes!

Is this right?

[El Presidente]

Good topic for a poll while members discuss the possible reasoning 

[Bijan]

Your theory makes sense when the flavours are off

But I've had a box where 15-20/25 were plugged and/or overfilled. I don't think you can blame that on the tobacco.

[SmokeHouse84]

Interesting question, I was just posting about a cab of coro's I got several months ago that are like this.

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[FatPete]

I’ve just been through 3 boxes of El Principe which were uniformly poor, but the Principe was my favourite short smoke before then, now I won’t be buying any more. I wish I knew the answer why this can happen too. I’m guessing just a poor batch of tobacco to that factory (they were all LGR). 

[Cairo]

1 hour ago, FatPete said:

they were all LGR

I have an outstanding box of LGR June 17.  Do you recall the dates of your poor boxes?

[MrBirdman]

For me the answer will depend on which marcas you tend to smoke. Of them I smoke and own Monte’s more, With Monte it’s definitely >1/10 boxes. I love em despite finding them maddeningly inconsistent (eg half a dress box plugged and half of the unplugged ones being very mediocre). As I was telling  @zigarrenziggy last week, I can’t count the number of times I’ve been smoking one of the soggy ashtray specimens, looked at it and said “why the hell do I smoke so many of these?” But I keep going back and love them just the same - a bit like my relationship with certain family/friends  

Trinidad much less inconsistent, I’d say seldom, but still too much so given the price  Most marcas fall here  

If you count only boxes and not packs then I would put Cohiba in the never category but I only have a few boxes which I’ve broken into at this point  

[LordAnubis]

I think a few things;

One of the major things i think is you. Your tastes may have changed. 

On the cigar though;

- I think yes that while there could be multiple peoples cigars in one box, realistically it would be done in a batch right? So maybe a few blokes in one corner with a bundle of leaf roll one particular cigar. Realist to assume that leaf colour would be simial in one bundle that one roller has. Also realsit to assume the same bundle of shitty fermented poorly grown tobaco would end up in the same bundle and hence in the same lot of cigars.

- Its history. Probably one mastercase that gets left out in the sun or something else environment related and thats one you got.

- Just the batch. One quality of leaf from one year of harvest or whatever is going to be different (better or worse) so it's goign to taste different.

- No idea if cubans often use tobacco from different farms to roll one particular cigar, or if only one farm and partiucalr leaf from that farm is used to roll one particual cigar. Seems unlikely though.

 

[BellevilleMXZ]

Because Cuba?? I have prob bought over 120 boxes . So far only 1 "bad" box, MC2. Just a bad/off/ taste. PTR DIC 16. I buried them, and actually tried one last week. They are getting decent, atleast that one was. 

[Habana Mike]

Can't say I've really had a box where all the flavors were off. I can say I've had boxes where most were unsmokable due to draw issues...

[Bri Fi]

I expect my less expensive cigars (JL2/HDM ep2/Monte 4 etc) to have a 20-30% failure rate. I expect my expensive cigars (Winnie/sig 6 etc) to have a 95+% success rate. Mostly because I would ASSUME (I know...) better rollers will be rolling better cigars. That said, I have no clue how a roller could possibly under fill a cigar so poorly. Isn’t there a ratio of leaves for a blend? Unless your missing leaves, cigars in a box should pretty much weigh the same. 

[FatPete]

6 hours ago, Cairo said:

I have an outstanding box of LGR June 17.  Do you recall the dates of your poor boxes?

Just checked . The offending boxes were 

LGR Jun 18

LGR Nov 17

LGR Oct 17

 

 

[Nino]

6 hours ago, LordAnubis said:

- No idea if cubans often use tobacco from different farms to roll one particular cigar, or if only one farm and partiucalr leaf from that farm is used to roll one particual cigar. Seems unlikely though.

 

Not just unlikely - it's impossible. One box, 25 rollers, 25 different farms.

[IanMcLean68]

I can only recall one box where the entire box was a complete stinker, and that was pre-FOH for me. A box of 2008 Punch Punch tubos. I stopped buying them after that, they were that bad. After joining FOH back in 2014, I learned that Punch Punch had indeed gone through a really poor period before coming good in recent years. I'm really enjoying a dress box that I recently just cracked, from LAU MAY16 now. 5 out of 5 so far.

[RDB]

4 hours ago, FatPete said:

Just checked . The offending boxes were 

LGR Jun 18

LGR Nov 17

LGR Oct 17

 

 

That’s really unlucky. I would have said that specific combination (factory, dates, marca and vitola) was a very good bet. 

I have duff boxes of: PSD4, Monte Esp.2, RASS and RG88s. Agree that Trinidad has been outstanding for consistency recently.

[garbandz]

worst offender for me is RyJ Regalias de Londres.

bought a box in 2011 of 2010 sticks, 90% of them would not burn right.

 bought a box in 2015 of 2014 sticks, 90% of them would not burn right.

have a current box of 2019,so far 13 out of 14 would not burn right.

They started out ok, then tunnel, burn internally while the wrapper chars, and really taste like crap.

I will not be trying them again..........

[CampDelta369]

7 hours ago, FatPete said:

Just checked . The offending boxes were 

LGR Jun 18

LGR Nov 17

LGR Oct 17

 

 

I have an LGR DIC 17 that are smoking very good so far, just as a point of reference. 

[djrey]

So far I have been pretty lucky and only had a few bad cigars here and there but never a bad box.

Has anyone ever had a bad cabinet of PLPC? Its my new favorite affordable smoke that I have been buying box after box of. Hoping they are low risk purchases. 

[tigger]

It's been exceedingly rare for me to come across a box that meets the definition in the OP.

Other than a few boxes at the turn of the century that were so tightly rolled that a draw poker or the the like couldn't help, I don't think I've had any that, given enough time, didn't become acceptable.

With the exception of Lars Tetens, of course. ?

[CampDelta369]

For my experience it's been seldom. But when it occurs it is frustrating. I have a box of RASS EOS DOC 18 that is a palate wrecker. The first sample was ROTT and had some promise And Flavors. After several months of rest the following several were Acrid and un smokeable. The last one I tried seemed to be turning a corner and was at least smoking with some tobacco flavor. The kicker is that ALL have had excellent construction and burn. The wrappers are more of a light Colorado and quite smooth. humidor RH 63-65%. I tried dry boxing, increasing RH, etc but in the end I am just waiting and pulling another sample when I feel adventurous. 

[Habana Mike]

7 hours ago, tigger said:

It's been exceedingly rare for me to come across a box that meets the definition in the OP.

Other than a few boxes at the turn of the century that were so tightly rolled that a draw poker or the the like couldn't help, I don't think I've had any that, given enough time, didn't become acceptable.

With the exception of Lars Tetens, of course. ?

Oh man! Haven't heard that name in a couple of decades. Not sure he got the idea from Ghurka or vice versa.....

There were those Acid cigars too. ?

[dshot]

I think this is a rabbit hole that no one person can pin point the true answer. There's just to many variables to be certain of one thing. 

[SmokeHouse84]

11 hours ago, djrey said:

So far I have been pretty lucky and only had a few bad cigars here and there but never a bad box.
Has anyone ever had a bad cabinet of PLPC? Its my new favorite affordable smoke that I have been buying box after box of. Hoping they are low risk purchases. 

I have had luck with them they definitely burn better when I store them at 62rh and get about a year of age on them, young they don't smoke that well for me at least just my 2cents

11 hours ago, CampDelta369 said:

For my experience it's been seldom. But when it occurs it is frustrating. I have a box of RASS EOS DOC 18 that is a palate wrecker. The first sample was ROTT and had some promise And Flavors. After several months of rest the following several were Acrid and un smokeable. The last one I tried seemed to be turning a corner and was at least smoking with some tobacco flavor. The kicker is that ALL have had excellent construction and burn. The wrappers are more of a light Colorado and quite smooth. humidor RH 63-65%. I tried dry boxing, increasing RH, etc but in the end I am just waiting and pulling another sample when I feel adventurous. 

Sounds like my cab of CORO'S ESL MAY 18

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[1LegLance]

Like some folks around here I have been at this thing with Cuban cigars since the 90's....

and the only consistency is inconsistency

At least construction is better than years past and we are no where near what 99/00 was like.

But I do know having traveled to Cuba many many times is that nothing works the way we in the USA like to think it would/should. Nothing works the same as it used to years ago or weeks ago.

Remember it is a Communist country not a free market enterprise. While there is always great intent, especially on the special stuff, in the end they get things done. So if they need to swap in some other tobacco to meet a quota then that is what happens. Nothing evil or mean, just making the numbers.

However I am not bashing them, it is honestly amazing what comes out of that country, the flavor, quality and price is unbeatable. I am impressed every time I go that they make all of it happen on a shoestring with some seriously ancient and cobbled together buildings/equipment.

I rarely have an entire box that is off flavor wise, sure there have been some tent pegs and dog turds but mostly it is the random cigar that doesn't taste as well or burn right.

[djrey]

On 9/18/2020 at 11:34 AM, CampDelta369 said:

I have an LGR DIC 17 that are smoking very good so far, just as a point of reference. 

Smoking my first from an LGR 17 box right now. Simply gorgeous