It's Official! Washington Redskins Retired

[Ken Gargett]

2 hours ago, bpm32 said:

The (probably apocryphal) claim is that the Redskins were the last to allow black players and Dallas had integrated early on, but who knows what the real reason is. In any event it’s something I wondered about for years and years living there. All the black dudes I asked about it said they were Cowboys fans because their older relatives were Cowboys fans. Never met a white Cowboys fan there that wasn’t from Texas though. Now to be fair, it’s hard to find a Redskins fan these days who isn’t beat down, so it’s possible a lot of fans jumped ship over to Dallas since you lived there.

that is true. reasonably well known - george preston marshall was the owner and well known as perhaps one of the more racist people involved with the nfl. he refused to include any black players. when they got a new stadium, someone from the kennedy admin told him integrate or you can't use the stadium. it was on federal land, i think. he told them to bugger off and they caved (obviously early sixties). they tried again the next year and made it clear that was his last chance. so he drafted a black player and everyone was happy. marshall then immediately traded him. but they did then start bringing in black players including bobby marshall who passed away a few weeks back. hall of fame player. 

you do get a lot of fans of all teams in DC because it is such a transient place. they are there four years or eight years or whatever. but i never met nor have ever heard of any genuine local supporting the cowboys. and i simply do not believe anyone who was a fan of the skins, even those sick of losing (all of them) who would swap to the cowboys. would be hard enough to believe they'd swap to any team if they were genuine fans but there is not a chance in hell any swapped to the cowboys. i can believe that there might be some locals who supported the cowboys or whatever team because their family moved to the area and they grew up that way. but not that they swapped to the cowboys. it would be akin to the archbishop of canturbury and the pope both waking up and deciding they needed to make the pilgrimage to mecca. 

the only person i know who grew up in the other's territory (if that makes sense) as a fan of the other team is matthew mcconaghey, who grew up in the middle of texas as a skins fan. he must have copped some fearful beatings at school.  always been one of my fave actors. 

[BrightonCorgi]

On 7/16/2020 at 11:56 PM, alloy said:

Just eliminate Massachusetts? ?

It's moving that direction

https://www.boston.com/news/local-news/2020/07/16/charlie-baker-open-to-talking-calls-to-change-massachusetts-flag-seal

[NSXCIGAR]

And introducing...the Washington Football Team:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/washington-to-call-itself-washington-football-team-temporarily-and-make-tweak-to-uniform-for-2020/amp/

[Homer]

But the word Washington can be confused with George Washington who was white man. Thats racism.

 

 

[anacostiakat]

Hail to the Football Team.  Hail Victory! 

[SCgarman]

5 hours ago, anacostiakat said:

Hail to the Football Team.  Hail Victory! 

? As someone who lives and Redskins territory and HATES them I love it. May they continue to self-destruct. What a disaster.

[NSXCIGAR]

12 hours ago, Homer said:

But the word Washington can be confused with George Washington who was white man. Thats racism.

White and a slave owner. Double whammy. DC has to go, WA state has to go. Rename the Washington Monument to the Obelisk of Wokeness. DC should be called Wokeland, and we'd have the Wokeland Football Team. WA state: the State of Woke. 

[CaptainQuintero]

  Unless it's actually named after Washington England, ala York>New York then it's fine as long as you pay the relevent copyright ?

[spicycorona]

On 7/17/2020 at 9:52 AM, BrightonCorgi said:

It's moving that direction

https://www.boston.com/news/local-news/2020/07/16/charlie-baker-open-to-talking-calls-to-change-massachusetts-flag-seal

I don't think I'm a dumb person. I just do not understand why. I don't get any of it.   My brain hurts. 

[Ken Gargett]

6 hours ago, NYgarman said:

? As someone who lives and Redskins territory and HATES them I love it. May they continue to self-destruct. What a disaster.

all teams go through 'lesser' periods. as much as it will stun some younger members, when i lived in the States, the Pats were the joke of the competition and the easybeats. the cowboys had a 1-15 season. goes around. sadly the skins have been down a bit too long but cleaning out the front office, sorting out the name, finally getting a competent coach (our first since the legendary joe gibbs) and building a defence. it will still take a year or two but they are on the up. i still they'll be picking in the first three next draft but after that, away we go. 

[Colt45]

6 minutes ago, CaptainQuintero said:

  Unless it's actually named after Washington England, ala York>New York then it's fine as long as you pay the relevent copyright ?

Not really - the Europeans brought slavery to the Americas.

The name is certainly racist - there's no way around it. They could perhaps call themselves the natives and keep the logo, but all said and done maybe a clean break and new start is the way to go. Something that I've personally considered, with all the discussion of changing sports team names with native associations, is that it will continue to remove the country's connection with it's indigenous people. Not sure I can really articulate my thoughts properly....

[spicycorona]

5 minutes ago, Colt45 said:

Not really - the Europeans brought slavery to the Americas.

 

Wrong

 

 

 

[SCgarman]

16 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said:

all teams go through 'lesser' periods. as much as it will stun some younger members, when i lived in the States, the Pats were the joke of the competition and the easybeats. the cowboys had a 1-15 season. goes around. sadly the skins have been down a bit too long but cleaning out the front office, sorting out the name, finally getting a competent coach (our first since the legendary joe gibbs) and building a defence. it will still take a year or two but they are on the up. i still they'll be picking in the first three next draft but after that, away we go. 

How about getting rid of the owner and his partners? The team has been terrible since Dan Snyder.

[Ken Gargett]

12 minutes ago, NYgarman said:

How about getting rid of the owner and his partners? The team has been terrible since Dan Snyder.

if you can find a way, you be a hero to every skins fan on the planet. the partners want out. not sure that is happening. who'd buy a minority share of something with dan? but there are tiny signs that finally the penny has dropped with dan and he is staying out of things a lot more. which has to be good. 

[NSXCIGAR]

3 hours ago, Colt45 said:

Not really - the Europeans brought slavery to the Americas.

Complicated. The real issue is who has owned slaves. Indigenous People were both enslaved and owned slaves. There were many blacks that also owned slaves through 1861.

And the Africans were enslaved already when sold to the white slavers. African tribes were killing and enslaving each other for centuries. There would have been no white slavers without there first being black slavers. Same with American Indigenous. Tribes killing and enslaving each other. The myth of the noble savage is just that--myth.

That being said, I don't know why the Redskins logo has to go. Can any team honor the indigenous peoples and if so, how?

[anacostiakat]

As having been born, raised and reside in the city I am a loyal fan.  As I have said before, I don't have a big problem with them changing the name.  Just hoping it isnt something stupid.  I will add that I find it difficult to judge individuals and actions in history by today's standards.  

[CaptainQuintero]

On 7/24/2020 at 10:57 PM, Colt45 said:

Not really - the Europeans brought slavery to the Americas.

The name is certainly racist - there's no way around it. They could perhaps call themselves the natives and keep the logo, but all said and done maybe a clean break and new start is the way to go. Something that I've personally considered, with all the discussion of changing sports team names with native associations, is that it will continue to remove the country's connection with it's indigenous people. Not sure I can really articulate my thoughts properly....

   I can hear the collective sighs of relief from the Aztec and Inca empires!

[CaptainQuintero]

21 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

Complicated. The real issue is who has owned slaves. Indigenous People were both enslaved and owned slaves. There were many blacks that also owned slaves through 1861.

And the Africans were enslaved already when sold to the white slavers. African tribes were killing and enslaving each other for centuries. There would have been no white slavers without there first being black slavers. Same with American Indigenous. Tribes killing and enslaving each other. The myth of the noble savage is just that--myth.

That being said, I don't know why the Redskins logo has to go. Can any team honor the indigenous peoples and if so, how?

  I think it's clear that I'd you set up any business now, if you name it using anything that you'd shout at someone as an insult you're not going to go far. So historic businesses are in a bit of a tricky situation. I can't help but feel that this has been coming for a while and with hindsight it could have been avoided even 5 years ago.

  I'm not sure how I'd move forward in the current situation, I'm sure there will be members of affected businesses that are hoping that this will all die down soon and they won't have to make a decision. 

  I'd think it would be easier to jump clean and move on as quick as possible, marketing can surely create something that ties the spirit of the old with something fresh. I'd hazard a guess that they will be nervous about some of the shockers that some marketing has created across various brands over the years.

[NSXCIGAR]

56 minutes ago, CaptainQuintero said:

  I think it's clear that I'd you set up any business now, if you name it using anything that you'd shout at someone as an insult you're not going to go far. So historic businesses are in a bit of a tricky situation. I can't help but feel that this has been coming for a while and with hindsight it could have been avoided even 5 years ago.

  I'm not sure how I'd move forward in the current situation, I'm sure there will be members of affected businesses that are hoping that this will all die down soon and they won't have to make a decision. 

  I'd think it would be easier to jump clean and move on as quick as possible, marketing can surely create something that ties the spirit of the old with something fresh. I'd hazard a guess that they will be nervous about some of the shockers that some marketing has created across various brands over the years.

Well, they've been coming after 'Redskins" for a while now. Like I said, Redskins was my high school mascot and it got changed in 2001. Then again, it is in a fairly progressive region. The problem is Redskins was never really used as a slur. It was simply an informal description like black or brown. That's just how it was used in the early 20th century. Obviously it would never have been adopted if it was a slur since the entire intention was to honor the indigenous. And as I pointed out, what about Red Man tobacco? Is that now gone?

I think the Washington fans and team would prefer to have their team's name honor the indigenous. I think it's possible and it would be much more palatable for everyone to keep the logo (which can't possibly be considered offensive) and select an indigenous-honoring name.

[BrightonCorgi]

On 7/24/2020 at 5:44 PM, spicycorona said:

I don't think I'm a dumb person. I just do not understand why. I don't get any of it.   My brain hurts. 

Depictions of the human form should not be allowed is what it's really about.  

[JohnnyO]

On 7/24/2020 at 9:18 PM, NSXCIGAR said:

Complicated. The real issue is who has owned slaves. Indigenous People were both enslaved and owned slaves. There were many blacks that also owned slaves through 1861.

And the Africans were enslaved already when sold to the white slavers. African tribes were killing and enslaving each other for centuries. There would have been no white slavers without there first being black slavers. Same with American Indigenous. Tribes killing and enslaving each other. The myth of the noble savage is just that--myth.

That being said, I don't know why the Redskins logo has to go. Can any team honor the indigenous peoples and if so, how?

The Pyramids were built by white Jewish slaves. So we need to level those buildings right? Hitler used Jews or any other group that wasn't down with his program as slaves. Unfortunately, it is part of our history. 3 of the 4 on Mount Rushmore owned slaves, Roosevelt was said to be a racist. So lets go knock that down too. At what point is it overkill? 

 

On 7/26/2020 at 9:14 AM, BrightonCorgi said:

Depictions of the human form should not be allowed is what it's really about.  

Cowboys, Patriots, Raiders, Vikings, Buccaneers all human form. John

[SCgarman]

On 7/26/2020 at 9:14 AM, BrightonCorgi said:

Depictions of the human form should not be allowed is what it's really about.  

Well then let's just eliminate all team names, since there can likely be some sort of fault found in all of them. Then we can go after teams in MLB and the NBA. Where the hell does it stop? 

[BrightonCorgi]

3 hours ago, JohnnyO said:

 Cowboys, Patriots, Raiders, Vikings, Buccaneers all human form. John

Cowboys are a Star emblem.  Patriots are demeaning to Native Americans, Vikings denote white privilege & supremacy, and Buccaneers are offensive to Latinos. 

 

3 hours ago, JohnnyO said:

The Pyramids were built by white Jewish slaves. So we need to level those buildings right? Hitler used Jews or any other group that wasn't down with his program as slaves. Unfortunately, it is part of our history. 3 of the 4 on Mount Rushmore owned slaves, Roosevelt was said to be a racist. So lets go knock that down too. At what point is it overkill?

The Pyramids are in another country and if Jesus wasn't white, how could the Jewish slaves be white? 

[El Presidente]

2 hours ago, BrightonCorgi said:

 Jesus wasn't white, how could the Jewish slaves be white? 

JESUS WASN'T WHITE ? 

[Chibearsv]