It's Official! Washington Redskins Retired

[Ken Gargett]

16 minutes ago, BoliDan said:

OK. This is the first of the many ridiculous one's the @ElJavi76 brought up last night, which I mentioned in my post. Wow... I didn't think it was real... Yeah we're getting way too sensitive now'n'days... I stick by my "Redskins" reaction nonetheless.

BD, this is part of the issue. what offends one person is okay by another. 

does everything go?

who decides?

where do you draw the line?

i have no idea on all that. 

[Deeg]

6 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said:

BD, this is part of the issue. what offends one person is okay by another. 

does everything go?

who decides?

where do you draw the line?

i have no idea on all that. 

Ken, let’s say for example there was a pro sports franchise in Boston called the “Micks”.  Let’s say you took a poll of Irish-Americans, and by a 60-40% margin, they said it wasn’t offensive.  Would that be grounds for not changing the name, since only 40% of the ethnic group in question were offended by it?

[NSXCIGAR]

1 hour ago, Deeg said:

Ken, let’s say for example there was a pro sports franchise in Boston called the “Micks”.  Let’s say you took a poll of Irish-Americans, and by a 60-40% margin, they said it wasn’t offensive.  Would that be grounds for not changing the name, since only 40% of the ethnic group in question were offended by it?

I don't think the families of the people murdered in DC gave a rat's behind about the Bullets. The uproar never seems to come from those who it's claimed the names insult.

[Ken Gargett]

1 hour ago, Deeg said:

Ken, let’s say for example there was a pro sports franchise in Boston called the “Micks”.  Let’s say you took a poll of Irish-Americans, and by a 60-40% margin, they said it wasn’t offensive.  Would that be grounds for not changing the name, since only 40% of the ethnic group in question were offended by it?

as i said, i have no idea. 

but if 40% are offended and 60% not (for me, not being offended does not carry the same weight as being offended, if that makes any sense - in the sense that i am not offended if someone does another show on the kardashians because i simply don't care and won't watch, but others may be desperate to see more of her/them - i gather there are more than one? others may be deeply offended that they get air time. does that make any sense?), then i would think 40% is a hell of a lot and i'd suspect time to find something more acceptable to all. 

 

[Meklown]

51 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said:

as i said, i have no idea. 

but if 40% are offended and 60% not (for me, not being offended does not carry the same weight as being offended, if that makes any sense - in the sense that i am not offended if someone does another show on the kardashians because i simply don't care and won't watch, but others may be desperate to see more of her/them - i gather there are more than one? others may be deeply offended that they get air time. does that make any sense?), then i would think 40% is a hell of a lot and i'd suspect time to find something more acceptable to all. 

 

Ken, the Kardashian analogy is amusing.

I would like to point out, however, that I think that there are 3 categories of people that you mentioned. "For", "Against", and "Indifferent". It's like a voting democracy - people who vote for a particular party is For or Against a party. People who abstain from voting are indifferent. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do not think there is a democracy in this world that makes it a crime to not vote. In fact, for a lot of elections, turnout rate is usually 40-60%.

However, in today's polarising world, it seems that there can only be two camps - For and Against.

[Ken Gargett]

18 minutes ago, Meklown said:

Ken, the Kardashian analogy is amusing.

I would like to point out, however, that I think that there are 3 categories of people that you mentioned. "For", "Against", and "Indifferent". It's like a voting democracy - people who vote for a particular party is For or Against a party. People who abstain from voting are indifferent. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do not think there is a democracy in this world that makes it a crime to not vote. In fact, for a lot of elections, turnout rate is usually 40-60%.

However, in today's polarising world, it seems that there can only be two camps - For and Against.

"Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do not think there is a democracy in this world that makes it a crime to not vote."

yes. us! voting here is compulsory. 

[Deeg]

2 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

as i said, i have no idea. 

but if 40% are offended and 60% not (for me, not being offended does not carry the same weight as being offended, if that makes any sense - in the sense that i am not offended if someone does another show on the kardashians because i simply don't care and won't watch, but others may be desperate to see more of her/them - i gather there are more than one? others may be deeply offended that they get air time. does that make any sense?), then i would think 40% is a hell of a lot and i'd suspect time to find something more acceptable to all. 

 

I would agree wholeheartedly with that.  And that's the problem - shouldn't the offense taken by those who're being referenced by the name outweigh the in-offense (not a word, I know) of those that aren't?

It's preposterous to draw a parallel between the team name being an ethnic group (and let's be clear, the one used by the Washington football club is a flat-out racial slur) and that of an inanimate object.  Plenty of Native Americans are offended by it, and that alone should have been enough to get the name changed years ago.  Can you imagine if there were a pro baseball team called "Italians" (though the analog for Redskins would be a much less neutral term) or a basketball team called "Chinese"?  The fact is, when you use the name of an ethnic group for a team name you're effectively equating that group with what most teams are named after - animals.  As in, less than human.  Colts, Broncos, Bears, Redskins.  It really shouldn't be that complicated to understand why this is a problem.

[BrightonCorgi]

16 hours ago, rp99pts said:

And this is only the beginning.  The woke mob now smells blood in the water because the Redskins caved.   Get ready Chiefs, Braves, Blackhawks ETC..  You're next!!!!!

The goal is to have no depiction of the human form similar Orthodox Judaism and Islam. 

 

10 minutes ago, Deeg said:

I would agree wholeheartedly with that.  And that's the problem - shouldn't the offense taken by those who're being referenced by the name outweigh the in-offense (not a word, I know) of those that aren't?

No.  It doesn't matter what the group of the offensive depiction is aimed thinks; that's irrelevant.  It's not about them; it's about moral purity of the ones who deem it offensive.

Just because someone is not smart enough to know they are being hurt makes it allowable for them to be hurt.  There is little to know grey area.  All depictions are considered offensive.

[MooseAMuffin]

5 hours ago, BoliDan said:

She's fine with the chiefs as a name. "Chiefs" is not a derogatory term to her. It's pretty much the same as the LA Kings to her. Just a name of a historical high powered position that is more relevant us. I mentioned in my post that she actually likes the "Chop". Also she we're in Denver so her saying that as a Broncos fan has some weight. Sorry, I'm from New England, so I hate your team as well as my wife's. I'm sure the feeling is mutual.

Thanks for the response! I was pretty shocked to read the article of people finding "Chief" derogatory. My college roommate and really good friend, who is 1/4 Native American, gave his son the middle name Chieftan. He and his wife call call him Chief alot so I sent him the article as well. He couldn't believe it.

When it comes to your choice of teams...I dont think you're allowed to hate anyone since the Pats had 15-20 years of dominance over the entire AFC. Let someone else have a turn! 

I think the Broncos and Chiefs have the makings for a great rivalry over the next 10 years. Im not an MU fan but I saw Lock play alot when he was in college and I think he has tools to be really good. Plus, they had a good draft this year. 

[JohnnyO]

Does this mean Cuba will eliminate the Behike line? Are there Tainos in Cuba or the rest of the world that are offended by it? Should we remove the Indian Chief in front of every cigar store because its racist and offensive? Common, brah. I suggest renaming them the Red Aliens. You get to keep the R and when the Aliens try to take over they'll have something to complain about. John

[SigmundChurchill]

4 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

"Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do not think there is a democracy in this world that makes it a crime to not vote."

yes. us! voting here is compulsory. 

Are you allowed to write someone in, or do they force you to vote for one of the candidates?

[Fuzz]

43 minutes ago, SigmundChurchill said:

Are you allowed to write someone in, or do they force you to vote for one of the candidates?

Just rock up to the polling booth, get your name signed off, walk over to the booth, pretend you are writing, then drop the unused folded ballot paper into the box.

[MooseAMuffin]

5 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

"Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do not think there is a democracy in this world that makes it a crime to not vote."

yes. us! voting here is compulsory. 

If this was the case for us here in the states, about half of us would be in trouble. ?

[CaptainQuintero]

5 hours ago, Fuzz said:

Just rock up to the polling booth, get your name signed off, walk over to the booth, pretend you are writing, then drop the unused folded ballot paper into the box.

  This might be a total urban myth, but is it true that a majority of winners have gotten there by being the first name at the top of the list to pick from? ie the candidate first on the list due to alphabetical order usually wins?

[Ken Gargett]

51 minutes ago, CaptainQuintero said:

  This might be a total urban myth, but is it true that a majority of winners have gotten there by being the first name at the top of the list to pick from? ie the candidate first on the list due to alphabetical order usually wins?

that is what is called the donkey vote (for obvious reasons and apols to all donkeys, given the post we are on). it is believed to be worth 1 or 2% up to possibly 7 to 8% in some extreme cases. depends on the election/candidates. if they are a miserable lot and no one cares, the donkey vote goes up. 

if you write someone in, the vote is then informal, as in it gores into the bin. you'd be amazed at how often the jedi party gets included. in the past, the great norman gunston was often included. it would take a bit to explain the gunston phenomenon.

you won't be fined for that as they never know who does that. but you will be fined - i think it is about $50 - if you don't front up or send in a postal vote. 

personally, for years i just apply for a postal vote and then send it back with votes if i intend to vote or not if i don't want to vote. i am in the minority in australia but i firmly believe that voting should be a right, not a compulsory obligation.  

[Homer]

I would suggest that they replase all the derogatory names with rainbow.

Washington rainbows, Chicago rainbows etc.

Everybody loves rainbows.

Go rainbows!

[BrightonCorgi]

The irony is that when a team takes a name of an object, person, group, etc it is done with reverence..   No one is going to name themselves "the livers" if they hate liver for instance.

In my state, there is a native american on the flag and just about everything in certain parts of the state is named after something in wampanoag which was the native american tribe in my state.  The two innately interwoven.  Should we rename every street now?

[alloy]

On 7/16/2020 at 11:19 PM, BrightonCorgi said:

The irony is that when a team takes a name of an object, person, group, etc it is done with reverence..   No one is going to name themselves "the livers" if they hate liver for instance.

In my state, there is a native american on the flag and just about everything in certain parts of the state is named after something in wampanoag which was the native american tribe in my state.  The two innately interwoven.  Should we rename every street now?

Just eliminate Massachusetts? ?

[Cold Smoke]

On 7/13/2020 at 9:21 AM, anacostiakat said:

https://www.hogshaven.com/2020/7/13/21322495/official-the-redskins-have-officially-retired-their-team-name-and-logo

 

Well overdue!

[bpm32]

A lot of football fans in DC actually root for the Dallas Cowboys. Been that way for decades.

[BrightonCorgi]

4 hours ago, alloy said:

Just eliminate Mastachusetts? ?

Exactly.  We were culturally appropriating since 1620, lol.  

It's all so absurd.  I think the world is in its greatest place we've been in if such nonsense issues are what many deem to be so important. 

 

[Nino]

11 hours ago, Homer said:

I would suggest that they replase all the derogatory names with rainbow.

Washington rainbows, Chicago rainbows etc.

Everybody loves rainbows.

Go rainbows!

Not sure it is a good idea @Homer... ?

Nowadays everyone and his grandmother has something to object about names - looks like people from your big neighbour to the east object to rainbows ...

Hold the rainbows.
 

Quote

 

We all know the dangers of eating too much ice cream — it takes its toll on your waistband and wallet, and can rot your teeth. Oh, and it makes you gay! Er, what?

Yes, according to a former member of the Russian parliament and current head of the Union of Women, an ice cream called Rainbow should be banned because it promotes homosexuality. Ekaterina Lakhova told President Vladimir Putin that advertisements for the multicolored ice cream could lead to children becoming “accustomed to” the LGBTQ community's rainbow-colored flag.

"They're quietly promoting these nice rainbow colors, using nice words, they're advertising an ice cream called Rainbow," Lakhova told Putin, seemingly undermining her own argument by pointing out that it's only ice cream with nice colors and children like nice colors and rainbows. Before you know it she'll be saying that unicorns are gay!

“I have the same negative feelings about the rainbow as I do about the swastika,” Lakhova said in 1959. No, sorry, she said that in July 2020.

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/declassified-july-9/

[Fuzz]

3 hours ago, nino said:

Not sure it is a good idea @Homer... ?

Nowadays everyone and his grandmother has something to object about names - looks like people from your big neighbour to the east object to rainbows ...

Hold the rainbows.
 

 

What about flowers?

Chicago Petunnias? LA Lillies? Washington Daffodils! Yeah! Go the Dills!! 

Better not on second thought... people with hayfever may object.

[Ken Gargett]

7 hours ago, bpm32 said:

A lot of football fans in DC actually root for the Dallas Cowboys. Been that way for decades.

when i lived there, i didn't meet a single one. they would have been very brave. 

[bpm32]

2 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

when i lived there, i didn't meet a single one. they would have been very brave. 

The (probably apocryphal) claim is that the Redskins were the last to allow black players and Dallas had integrated early on, but who knows what the real reason is. In any event it’s something I wondered about for years and years living there. All the black dudes I asked about it said they were Cowboys fans because their older relatives were Cowboys fans. Never met a white Cowboys fan there that wasn’t from Texas though. Now to be fair, it’s hard to find a Redskins fan these days who isn’t beat down, so it’s possible a lot of fans jumped ship over to Dallas since you lived there.