The best of the new Trinidads?

[El Presidente]

I had this discussion on Friday and over the weekend with Ken. 

Which is the best of the new Trinidads? Specifically:

La Trova  (new enough)

Topes

Media Luna

Esmeralda

Is there one that stands apart from the others?......or d they all share much of the same DNA.

Would love your input 

 

 

 

[DeeBeezy]

Of the three new releases, I am still yet to try the esmeralda (which I hear is amazing), I purchased a box from a recent 24:24 listing. 
must say I was particularly impressed with the topes, nothing like the LE but a great cigar in its own right full of doughy, creamy sweet notes. 
I enjoyed it in the four seasons hotel in Miami before corona hit the fan, was quite the experience. 

[Wookie]

La Trova are very nice for me but a bit dialed down intensity-wise. Nice morning or lunch cigar when the boozing is mellow. Like a beer and a finger of bourbon before a 1pm tee time.  I don't see a ton of difference between the vigia and the Topes...some are sublime, others are merely excellent. Both are beautiful. Psyched to try the Esmeralda but it's been in the mail for about 7 weeks now??. Waiting for the media luna to cool down like the Vigias did. Cannot wait for a full bodied big size in Trinidad. 

[SenorPerfecto]

Esmeralda

[JohnS]

There's quite a bit to a question such as this but here's my take on it after ruminating on it for awhile. So here goes in point form...

• The Trinidad La Trova LCDH was released in 2017. Notice that its vitola is a 52 ring gauge x 166 mm (or 6½ inches) in length which is a Canonazo Especial. The only other release to share that size was the Cohiba 1966 EL in 2011.
• The Esmeralda, Topes and Media Luna were released to commemorate the 50th anniversary of Trinidad as a marca in 2019. Similarly, they have been released in unique vitola sizes. Habanos S.A releases in unique vitola sizes tends to indicate that those new releases are meant to stand out amongst other Habanos regular production releases.
• The Trinidad La Trova shares the recent trend of better-than-standard LCDH releases, in my view. It tends to be buttery in texture and dominate in dough flavours, like slightly burnt cookies.
• The Esmeralda, Topes (2019) and Media Luna also have the recent trend in the Trinidad marca of sharing a quality buttery texture to them. They differ to the La Trova in that they are more savoury, to me, and have more elements of coffee and wood in them at this stage. The dough flavours in these are different to the La Trova too (less burnt cookie, but not quite as soft as doughnut dough - like what you can get in Trinidad Fundadores).
• The La Trova, with its vitola size indicates to me a statement by Habanos S.A that it was and remains not only a better-than-standard Habanos cigar, but also a better-than-standard LCDH cigar.
• The Esmeralda, Topes (2019) and Media Luna are better-than-standard regular production releases because I hypothesise that Habanos S.A. is heavily marketing the 50th anniversary of the Trinidad brand. They are doing this for two reasons; one, the Trinidad family are still contesting the origin of the brand which they date back in their family to 1905 and produced cigars until 1959 before leaving Cuba. Secondly, the evidence that Trinidad was born in 1969 is minimal at best. The main source for this was Adriano Martinez Rius, the former consultant to the Cuban Tobacco Industry through Cubatabaco & Habanos SA. He was also the honorary consultant for Min Ron Nee's classic "An Illustrated Encyclopaedia of Post-Revolutionary Havana Cigars". Personally, I highly rate Mr Martinez Rius' contributions to the historical knowledge of our shared enthusiasm for our hobby (his 2010 book, "The Great Book of The Habanos" remains one of my most-referenced and favourite sources of information on Habanos cigars) so for me, it's quite likely that Trinidad was cited or mentioned at the higher levels of Cubatabaco in 1969. However, evidence for diplomatically-gifted cigars prior to 1992 is elusive. Therefore, because the dispute of the origin of the Trinidad marca is on-going for the reasons stated above, the Esmeralda, Topes (2019) and Media Luna has been beneficiary to better quality production and better marketing.

In conclusion, the Esmeralda, Topes (2019) and Media Luna are all excellent cigars and share similar blend and flavour qualities. The La Trova is slightly different and for me, is marginally better, but only just. You really can't go wrong though with the recent 2019 additions to the Trinidad marca.

[Winoheel]

Just worried La Trova will suffer from the same disappearing act that the Robusto Extra has. La Trova gets my vote.


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[mbflash80]

All of them? (Sans media luna but simply because ive yet to try them) quality of the new releases has been impressive and the la trova has been a winner since first released...

[BoliDan]

Media lunas. Absolute fantastic. The price might make it cigar of year for me. The 2019 coloniales have been very good. Mini funadores. Ive been smoking them over my aged boxes. Loads of shortbread. 

[Meklown]

People need to stop buying up the Esmeraldas so quickly so I can have a chance to try them! ?

I've tried the other 3 and I think the La Trova stands out for me the most. I just love that balanced complexity in a light-medium body. Perfect for a long relaxing afternoon smoke by the pool. 

The Topes is just a little too fat for my liking (but the flavour profile is impeccable), while Media Luna is probably the weakest of the 3 (or maybe I had just had a bad stick). 

[NSXCIGAR]

I'm still wondering why the Media Luna is more expensive than the Vigia. I honestly love the format but for a Petit Robustos that price is just totally out of line. As they are they're more expensive than CoRo and that's flat out absurd. 

Conversely, I think the Esmeralda is actually a tad underpriced for its size. By weight it's not far off the La Trova. But 53 RG is a bit much for me and at that price point I'm looking at Sir Winston or Siglo V. 

I'm hoping the prices drop a bit as they have for most of the new releases. Vigia has come down quite a bit since 2014. 

FWIW, I do think all the new Trinis have been great. It seems that the ML is the most popular and the one I would gravitate towards personally.

[T.52]

15 hours ago, BoliDan said:

Media lunas. Absolute fantastic. The price might make it cigar of year for me. The 2019 coloniales have been very good. Mini funadores. Ive been smoking them over my aged boxes. Loads of shortbread. 

I know Rob is asking about the new Trini's, but I have to say I agree 100% that the 2019 coloniales and fundies are both smoking fantastic right now, and with only 3-4 months rest. 

[Hoepssa]

Trinidad cigars in 2019 are all tasty, definitely winner.

[ElJavi76]

Esmeralda!

[SigmundChurchill]

On 6/22/2020 at 3:46 PM, NSXCIGAR said:

I'm still wondering why the Media Luna is more expensive than the Vigia. I honestly love the format but for a Petit Robustos that price is just totally out of line. As they are they're more expensive than CoRo and that's flat out absurd. 

Conversely, I think the Esmeralda is actually a tad underpriced for its size. By weight it's not far off the La Trova. But 53 RG is a bit much for me and at that price point I'm looking at Sir Winston or Siglo V. 

I'm hoping the prices drop a bit as they have for most of the new releases. Vigia has come down quite a bit since 2014. 

FWIW, I do think all the new Trinis have been great. It seems that the ML is the most popular and the one I would gravitate towards personally.

I know the Media Luna has been classified as a petit robusto, but to me, it smokes more like a robusto than a petit robusto.  The size is not that much smaller.  I love the Vigia, but they do smoke a lot hotter than the Media Luna if you are not careful, due to the fact that the Vigia are slightly shorter, and a lot fatter.  So as much as I like the Vigia, the overall smoking experience with the Media Luna is more enjoyable.

I took some pics to illustrate what I am talking about:

Media Luna Vs D4

And here it is in between a true robusto and another “petit robusto”.

In answer to the general question of the thread, having smoked through several boxes of each size, this is the order I would place the 3 new Trinidads:

1.  Esmeralda

2.  Media Luna

3.  Topes

The Esmeralda and the Media Luna are very similar in their rich flavor and complexity.  I give the Esmeralda bonus points for providing a longer time to enjoy the amazing flavors of these cigars.  

The Topes is still an excellent cigar, but very few have been as rich in flavor as the other two sizes.  I am hypothesizing that the larger ring gauge is less favorable to the blend, but, what the hell do I know?  All I know, is I prefer the flavors of the first two.

[SigmundChurchill]

On 6/21/2020 at 7:22 PM, JohnS said:

In conclusion, the Esmeralda, Topes (2019) and Media Luna are all excellent cigars and share similar blend and flavour qualities. The La Trova is slightly different and for me, is marginally better, but only just. You really can't go wrong though with the recent 2019 additions to the Trinidad marca.

Through our cigar discussions, you and I usually agree, but here is one area where we disagree.  I prefer the Esmeralda and Media Luna to the La Trova.  The former are more true to the marca.  The La Trova is a top notch cigar, in it’s own right, but if I am craving true Trinidad flavors, I will choose the regular Trinidad line.

[JohnS]

6 hours ago, SigmundChurchill said:

Through our cigar discussions, you and I usually agree, but here is one area where we disagree.  I prefer the Esmeralda and Media Luna to the La Trova.  The former are more true to the marca.  The La Trova is a top notch cigar, in it’s own right, but if I am craving true Trinidad flavors, I will choose the regular Trinidad line.

Oh definitely. I seem to recall that four, five...perhaps six years ago when Trinidad was languishing as a premium marca (and alternatively Cohiba was incidentally thriving at that time) I was smoking a few Reyes, Coloniales etc and for me they were more woody, darker coffee, grass and hay than say recent Fundadores and the La Trova, for example.

In reality, these questions are so subjective that the question itself should behoove a natural variance in responses from our members, which indicating by the posts thus far it has.

[westg]

Topes all day long for me . I am still yet to smoke a LaTrova then even resembles Trinidad . 

Topes, love the size, combustion and Trinidad flavour . Great cigar for me .

[NSXCIGAR]

8 hours ago, SigmundChurchill said:

The size is not that much smaller.

Actually, a standard Robustos is 19.8% larger than the Media Luna and the Vigia is 14.8% larger than the Media Luna. Now, I don't have any issues with the vitola itself. I actually like Petit Robustos quite a bit. My only issue is with its price.

Unbelievably, the Media Luna is the most expensive Trinidad cigar by weight. It's more expensive by weight than the La Trova by ~20% and the Vigia by ~40%. It's also more expensive by weight than the 19.8% larger CoRo by ~20%!

IMO, this is a big pricing mistake. Media Luna are extremely expensive cigars for their size and to price them higher than even any Cohiba by weight is going to backfire once the newness wears off of these Trinis. I think we're going to see a massive price drop on these down to at least Vigia levels and should actually be slightly less. Proper pricing on Media Luna should be ~$13/stick in reality.

 

[SigmundChurchill]

3 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

Actually, a standard Robustos is 19.8% larger than the Media Luna and the Vigia is 14.8% larger than the Media Luna. Now, I don't have any issues with the vitola itself. I actually like Petit Robustos quite a bit. My only issue is with its price.

Unbelievably, the Media Luna is the most expensive Trinidad cigar by weight. It's more expensive by weight than the La Trova by ~20% and the Vigia by ~40%. It's also more expensive by weight than the 19.8% larger CoRo by ~20%!

IMO, this is a big pricing mistake. Media Luna are extremely expensive cigars for their size and to price them higher than even any Cohiba by weight is going to backfire once the newness wears off of these Trinis. I think we're going to see a massive price drop on these down to at least Vigia levels and should actually be slightly less. Proper pricing on Media Luna should be ~$13/stick in reality.

 

Well, to be clear, the CoRo is not "19.8% larger".  Media Luna is the same diameter, and only a tiny, 9mm shorter, so as far as size goes the CoRo is less than 10% larger.  If you are saying that the CoRo are 19.8% heavier, then I will trust what you are saying because I haven't looked it up myself, and it is doesn't make a bit of difference as to how much or little I like the cigar.  Though for that to be true, you would think the Media Luna would have to be undefiled, which is not something I associate with the cigar.

Since when is weight the determining factor in price.  I mean, it plays a role, but a rather minor one compared to demand.  If offered at the same price, I will take a CoRo over a Cuaba Salamone any day.  If offered at the same price, I will take an Esmeralda over a Lusitania any day.  The weight of the cigars doesn't even come into the equation.

Just comparing them to other cigars with the Trinidad name is not exactly comparing apples to apples either.  Demand for Media Luna will always be higher than demand for Vigia. I explained the Vigia in my post above.  The Vigia is a specialty cigar, for when you want a fat cigar, but don't have a lot of time to smoke.  They have a large surface area on fire at any given time, plus there is a greatly increase airflow through that giant ring gauge, so they burn fast and often hot.  By the time they start getting really good, the cigar is done.  Being a different shape, the Media Luna burns much differently.  As I said in the post above, it is a more pleasant smoking experience.  And don't get me wrong, I love the Vigias, but there is a time and place for them, while the Media Luna is far more versatile.  

Plus, they taste really, really good, which is more important to price than any other factor.  As I said, I prefer the flavor to these over the flavor of the La Trova or Topes.  So I don't care about a gram for gram price comparison.  I'm going to buy the cigar I like more.  If a lot of people agree with me on the taste, the price will not drop significantly, unless they change.  If a lot of people don't agree with me on the taste, then there will be a price drop.  

I would prefer if you were correct because it will be saving me money when I buy them, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

[NSXCIGAR]

10 minutes ago, SigmundChurchill said:

Since when is weight the determining factor in price.

It's not weight, it's mass. It's price per gram of tobacco. It's the only relevant metric.

Generally, the price per gram for CCs is remarkably uniform throughout the Habanos catalog within marcas. Trinidad is breaking this trend with these new releases. Whether or not you personally prefer the ML over the Vigia is irrelevant. The absolute value compared to other Trinidad models is what is in question.

And the only other marca I'm comparing Trini to here is Cohiba which I think is a fair comparison as it's Habanos' flagship premium marca. No other marca's cigars should cost more per gram. It undermines both Cohiba and Trinidad from a marketing perspective.

I also disagree as to the Vigia being a specialty cigar. Why? The HU Mag 54 is very close in size to the Vigia and has become a very popular and successful cigar. 54 RG has become very mainstream. I would say the Topes is much more of a specialty size.

My prediction is that Media Luna pricing will come way down. It cannot compete with CoRo and CoMS at that price over the long term. As much as a like the ML and Trinidad in general forking over that money when I can get both CoRo and CoMS cheaper per gram is a tough sell.

We'll see where Media Luna pricing is in 12-18 months. 

[SigmundChurchill]

I think supply and demand are really the only relevant metrics, and taste plays a huge role on the demand side.  Put out an amazing cigar, and make them in limited quality, and price per gram goes right out the window.

Is a Siglo VI twice the mass of a CoRo?  Is it's price proportional per gram to the other 5 Siglos?  The point is, I never bothered to check, because I am going to buy them no matter what the answer is.

As to the Mag 54, you bring up a good point, but somehow that little bit of extra length is enough to make a difference with that massive surface area.  At least, to me it does.  The diameter of a tube plays a much larger role in gas flow than length. The former being to the power of 4, while the latter is only inversely proportional, and they are the same diameter.  So that alone shouldn't account for the difference.  But these tubes are filled with solids rather than hollow, so impedance plays a significant role.  Are Mag 54s rolled more tightly than Vigias?  I don't know.  Vigias do tend to be undefiled, in my experience, but I don't know if I would say the same for Mag 54s, which I have much more limited experience.

Either way, I hope you are right and the price does come down.  As it is, I have 5 more boxes coming my way, and I will buy more at a lower price point.

[havanaclub]

Unfortunately the demand for the ML might be going up too as it’s already jumped from 169 to 185 in the past week, which looks very familiar to the QD 50 and especially the 54.
Those have slowed down in terms of instant sell out but the prices haven’t dropped much, with the exception of multi box deal on the 50s.
We will see, I hope the demand slows down and prices do settle in like the Vigia, Maddy 1 et al.


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[NSXCIGAR]

2 hours ago, havanaclub said:

Unfortunately the demand for the ML might be going up too as it’s already jumped from 169 to 185 in the past week, which looks very familiar to the QD 50 and especially the 54.
Those have slowed down in terms of instant sell out but the prices haven’t dropped much, with the exception of multi box deal on the 50s.

I haven't seen sub-$210 MLs at all. Even $185 would be a vastly better deal than I had thought. $169 isn't too bad. If that price was seen at all then the margins are lower than that. I remember both Connie A and May 54 being unattainable for under $300. And Vigia for under $220. I fully expect ML to get down to at least it's lowest seen price so far even if it goes up more in the meantime.

With the QdO, I think HSA either underestimated (understandably) the popularity of the 50 & 54 or intentionally debuted them at lower prices than they may have ideally wanted to in order to spur some interest initially. Keep in mind, QdO was a doghouse marca and after a full brand revamp they may have wanted to proceed cautiously. I can tell you even I was surprised the initial pricing was so reasonable. A hike was inevitable, particularly following the unlikely massive success of the 50 & 54.

3 hours ago, SigmundChurchill said:

taste plays a huge role on the demand side.

Not as much as you think. CoRo has been nothing special for many years and they sell like gangbusters. 

And there are many cigars that are great that would not ever compete at higher prices. SC Torreon is considered outstanding and it's priced sky high and nobody buys them. Even La Fuerza and La Punta have been criticized for many years for being overpriced from a marketing perspective. 

3 hours ago, SigmundChurchill said:

Is a Siglo VI twice the mass of a CoRo?  Is it's price proportional per gram to the other 5 Siglos?

Used to be until a few years ago. Siglo VI has absolutely skyrocketed in price recently. The price in Cuba had not risen concomitantly however making me believe this is a distributor/vendor markup and not a HSA markup. Siglo VI has huge demand and perpetually low supply unlike most other Cohiba. CoRo production to Siglo VI production is probably 100:1. 

Yes, there is a premium put on Siglo VI but it is considered a special cigar. It's 13% larger by weight than the CoRo but ~44% more expensive in Cuba. Outside of Cuba the Siglo VI is 100% more expensive than CoRo, so something's going on specifically with this cigar.

[medzikone]

Well, I bought the box of Media Lunas in local LCDH for 13 USD/stick.

[joeypots]

If there was a sampler I'd try all three but i shy away from such short fat cigars. Even robustos annoy me at 5 X 50, but that's just me.