Charcoal Smoker - Expert (or thereabouts) Advice Required - Please.

[MoeFOH]

Bought this Charcoal Smoker (below) a few weeks back. Charmate 470. Entry-level gear, but good stuff. Have run a pork shoulder and a beef brisket through it over the past couple of weekends with... mixed... results... 

Actually, haven't done too badly for amateur attempts, but aiming to improve in any way possible... technique, recipes, key equipment, prep, and so on. 

I think I've got the hang of setting and keeping consistent low & slow temp, so I reckon the main area I need to make up ground in is the method. 

Using beef brisket as an example, what's your method... tips & tricks? 

Do you wrap your brisket at some point? Do you rely on weight/temp to discern cooking time or always go with internal temp monitoring? What sort of rub and other preps do you use? etc, etc... 

I know we've got Australia's charcoal guru @Fuzz on the forum, and I suspect we've got an amazing group from the US and elsewhere who can provide the good oil here. (That's aussie for good advice, I'm not seeking cooking oils... or oils of any kind for that matter ) 

Any help would be greatly appreciated!*

*(Especially by my youngest son, who helped and sat with me for hours only to enjoy the spoils of meagre results. Great father-son stuff, but a superb end product would be a nice addition!)

 

[teamrandr]

Moisture and consistent low temperatures are paramount when smoking proper brisket. I like 220° or so for a smoke temperature.   In that setup be ready to smoke for 10-12 hours for tender brisket.  Always let the the meat sit out at room temperature for an hour or two before it goes on the smoker.  I let the brisket go to 200 or so and pull it.  Another way is just stick the thermometer through the flat.  If it goes in easy it is ready.  This takes a bit of time to get the hang of.  When the meat comes off you must rest it.  I prefer to place it in a pan and cover with saran wrap and then tin.  Then if you have a cooler set it in that for an hour. Separate the the point from the flat.  Make sure to identify the grain of the brisket.  Slice thinly across the grain.  

[MoeFOH]

3 minutes ago, teamrandr said:

Moisture and consistent low temperatures are paramount when smoking proper brisket. I like 220° or so for a smoke temperature.   In that setup be ready to smoke for 10-12 hours for tender brisket.  Always let the the meat sit out at room temperature for an hour or two before it goes on the smoker.  I let the brisket go to 200 or so and pull it.  Another way is just stick the thermometer through the flat.  If it goes in easy it is ready.  This takes a bit of time to get the hang of.  When the meat comes off you must rest it.  I prefer to place it in a pan and cover with saran wrap and then tin.  Then if you have a cooler set it in that for an hour. Separate the the point from the flat.  Make sure to identify the grain of the brisket.  Slice thinly across the grain.  

Thanks. What weight of brisket are you talking there? 

[Çnote]

@teamrandr

That's all superb technique. 

@MoeFOH

I love smoking a brisket, but I'll smoke chuck roasts, tri-tips and caveman cut ribeyes, chicken leg quarters, turkey legs, ribs, duck magret, sausages etc if nothing else as you can rotate 3-6 different items thru the smoker and get more potential deliciousness and practical experience, esp if you feel you have your temperature technique down.

[MoeFOH]

6 minutes ago, Çnote said:

@teamrandr

That's all superb technique. 

@MoeFOH

I love smoking a brisket, but I'll smoke chuck roasts, trips and caveman cut ribeyes, chicken leg quarters, turkey legs, ribs, duck magret, sausages etc if nothing else as you can rotate 3-6 different items thru the smoker and get more potential deliciousness and practical experience, esp if you feel you have your temperature technique down.

Great advice! Thanks. 

[dominattorney]

Start with baby back ribs. Imho a lot harder to screw up. I smoke mine at 220 for 3 to 4 hours, rib side down, mopping every 30 min with beer and apple cider vinegar, mixed with part of the rub. Then I do a 2 to 1 beer to BBQ sauce mix, slather the ribs, and finish in the oven for 45 to an hour at 400 degrees. Let rest 15 minutes, cut and serve. Beautiful every time. They are done when you pick them up and they bend easily, with the bark just barely cracking under the weight of the ribs when held from one end. Use any rub yoy like, the beer and vinegar mop, as well as the beer with the sauce are what make the flavor, as well as the wood. I use apple, cherry, and pecan. 

[teamrandr]

25 minutes ago, MoeFOH said:

Thanks. What weight of brisket are you talking there? 

So typically between 8-18 pounds. Occasionally I would get bigger 20+ pound briskets.   The weight absolutely will affect the cook time. Bigger briskets needing to go longer of course.  I would probably recommend going with a smaller one with that setup.  Around 8 to 10 pounds.  

[teamrandr]

Dry rub at least 6 hours in advance.  Trim the fat cap down to around 1 inch.  Some of the readily available briskets will have the fat cap already already trimmed.  Look for one that has a good fat cap but not too thick!  Check with your local butcher as they seem to get the best briskets in my experience.   

[avaldes]

Nowhere close to an expert. But about 15 years ago I used to have one of the large indirect heat smokers with the firebox on the side. The whole trick is controlling the temperature in the cooking chamber. Once you can do that....by whatever method you like best. Then you can figure out how to finish...wrap/not-wrap, resting time, etc. You will also find an affinity for certain woods and meat together.

I had to leave that smoker behind when we moved 8 years ago, but it was fun.

[Habana Mike]

Love the typical Aussie warnings on everything. "Caution.- Hot Surface"....

We had to sign a waiver on Ham Island to take the leftovers home ?

Trade the starter smoker in for a Big Green Egg when you have your legs under you!

Only use lump hardwood charcoal, not briquets. Fruitwood chunks.

The rest of the oil here is pretty spot on.

[Chibearsv]

I’ve got the Weber smoker that looks pretty similar. I smoke/roast a 15-18 lb turkey at 225 with a mix of apple wood and pecan along with hardwood charcoal. Takes about 5 hours +- and its terrific. Also love to do pork shoulder for pulled pork but that can be an all nighter to get it tender enough. If you see smoke coming out from the seams, they sell gaskets online to seal it up better. Makes a difference for keeping things steady and stable. Have fun!  Mistakes are damn tasty too

[Çnote]

1 minute ago, Habana Mike said:

Trade the smoker in for a Big Green Egg! Only use lump hardwood charcoal, not briquets. Fruitwood chunks.

The rest of the oil here is pretty spot on.

Yeah, the BGE is the way, but they are $$$ and look even more so in Oz. 

[MoeFOH]

16 minutes ago, Chibearsv said:

If you see smoke coming out from the seams, they sell gaskets online to seal it up better. Makes a difference for keeping things steady and stable.

Yeah, it does a bit of that. I thought that was just par for the course with this sort of entry-level gear. It's fairly agricultural in manufacture. But I'll look into gaskets - thanks! 

18 minutes ago, Chibearsv said:

Have fun!  Mistakes are damn tasty too

They certainly are! I've been happily consuming the leftovers, mainly as cold cuts. Still very tasty! 

[MoeFOH]

31 minutes ago, Habana Mike said:

Trade the starter smoker in for a Big Green Egg when you have your legs under you!

Thanks Mike. Saw those when researching the purchase. They look great, but yeah, a little exxy for my purposes at present. Definitely look at them down the track. Cheers!

[ElPuro]

Brisket is prized bc it is one of the harder meats to get spot on. I use an offset smoker but also own a kamado joe and electric smoker. I suggest sp&g only for rub. Cook at 275 until you hit the color you want or the meat stalls, usually around 165 or so. Wrap in pink butcher paper or put in a pan and cover with foil. I dont like wrapping in foil entirely as it affects the taste. Pull NOT by temp but by when the probe slides through the thickest part of the flat like butter. The hotter you cook, the higher the finish temp usually is. Rest is key, preferably for 1-2 hours. Don't immediately place in a cooler but let the meat sit out for at least 20-30 mins so the temps start dropping. If you put in cooler too fast it will keep cooking and become overcooked. I trim fat cap to 1/4 inch on the flat and remove it entirely from the point, which is already fatty enough. Buy cheap meat expect a lower quality product. Hope that helps!

[ElPuro]

44 minutes ago, Habana Mike said:

Love the typical Aussie warnings on everything. "Caution.- Hot Surface"....

We had to sign a waiver on Ham Island to take the leftovers home ?

Trade the starter smoker in for a Big Green Egg when you have your legs under you!

Only use lump hardwood charcoal, not briquets. Fruitwood chunks.

The rest of the oil here is pretty spot on.

I like my kamado but don't usually use it for smoking much anymore, except chicken, which it is great for. It's great for regular charcoal grilling especially steaks. Have found I really like working my offset pit and that the results are better to my taste. 

[Habana Mike]

9 minutes ago, Çnote said:

Yeah, the BGE is the way, but they are $$$ and look even more so in Oz. 

1 minute ago, ElPuro said:

I like my kamado but don't usually use it for smoking much anymore, except chicken, which it is great for. It's great for regular charcoal grilling especially steaks. Have found I really like working my offset pit and that the results are better to my taste. 

Yes, not cheap. I've been smoking meats for decades and rolled through many options. Landed on the BGE a few years back and unless I want to go to pellet or an offset barrel smoker on a trailer I'll stick with them.

Smoke salmon at 175° for 6 or so hours, fantastic!

Ribs, butts, brisket at 225° for 5-16 hours with a constant temperature throughout with minimal tending.

Bring it up to 1200° to sear and cook through thick steaks in 4-5 minutes.

Awesome thing.

[ElPuro]

20 minutes ago, MoeFOH said:

Thanks Mike. Saw those when researching the purchase. They look great, but yeah, a little exxy for my purposes at present. Definitely look at them down the track. Cheers!

Not sure where you are, but look for them used. They usually go for about half of new. Just make sure the ceramics on bottom aren't broken. Also, would suggest looking at kamado joe rather in addition to BGE. Not sure about now, but when I bought a couple years ago KJ had come out with some innovations in design (new cap style and other things) and was overall the better product for the price. May have changed by now, though. 

[Çnote]

21 minutes ago, Habana Mike said:

Yes, not cheap. I've been smoking meats for decades and rolled through many options. Landed on the BGE a few years back and unless I want to go to pellet or an offset barrel smoker on a trailer I'll stick with them.

Smoke salmon at 175° for 6 or so hours, fantastic!

Ribs, butts, brisket at 225° for 5-16 hours with a constant temperature throughout with minimal tending.

Bring it up to 1200° to sear and cook through thick steaks in 4-5 minutes.

Awesome thing.

I lucked out with a BGE in a sales competition, it's fantastic and ala Ferris Bueller, if you have the means.

The best smoker I've used was a 55g drum with an off set firebox, but you need to be prepared with multiple big briskets, or an insane # of rib racks, or 1/2 a pig, just to make the process worthwhile. 

 

[grizzlee]

MoeFOH - what you picked up is very similar to a Weber Smokey Bullet, same principles apply. Check out this site for Bullet owners which has lots of tips.

https://www.virtualweberbullet.com/

[Phillys]

48 minutes ago, grizzlee said:

MoeFOH - what you picked up is very similar to a Weber Smokey Bullet, same principles apply. Check out this site for Bullet owners which has lots of tips.

https://www.virtualweberbullet.com/

That's a really good site to learn. They have good tutorials. 

 

[Habana Mike]

1 hour ago, grizzlee said:

MoeFOH - what you picked up is very similar to a Weber Smokey Bullet, same principles apply. Check out this site for Bullet owners which has lots of tips.

https://www.virtualweberbullet.com/

Had one very similar to this a few years back.

Mine was propane driven with lava rocks. Put the chunks on the rocks. Had two racks and a water pan.

It was actually not bad gear and I got good results. 

Regardless of the machinery you have at hand it is the technique that makes the most difference.

Patience, Zen, chill - that's the perfect recipe for slow smoked meats.

[Phillys]

I learned to BBQ when I was a kid. Best advice I was given is keep it simple at first. 

Get a good thermometer with probe, once for the chamber, one for the meat. Use temps as a guide, nothing replaces feel and touch. You can look at cook times on the web (in relation to temp) for a very rough estimate, but be ready to go over or under by a good margin depending on that specific piece of meat. Smoker temp anywhere between 225 to 275ish works, I don't stress about rock solid temps and still make killer BBQ. 

Beef - Kosher salt, pepper, wood smoke, simple beef has a lot of flavor and stands up well with minimal seasoning.  I find finish temp range is narrow for beef, some cuts a bit under cooked and it's tough, a bit overcooked and it's dry. Brisket, short ribs, chuck, tail, cheeks work well in a smoker. 

Pork is just magic, extremely versatile and IMO more forgiving than beef brisket or  beef short ribs. Ribs, shoulder, cheeks, belly, hams, hocks, tongue, everything goes with pork, except for loins and chops, I find them better on the grill.  

Pork ribs are easy, try the 3-2-1 method at 225F (always ends up 2-2-1 when I do it). Remove the membrane on the underside, trim the narrow end a bit to where you have bones (put the trim on the smoker for a quick Dad snack). Apply rub, wait 5 minutes drink beer, put on grill, bone side down 2 hours (or 3) until you have a good bark and drink more beer. Wrap in foil with apple cider vinegar or apple juice or whatever liquid you like, stout or beer can work also, bit of brown sugar. back in the smoker for another 2ish hours (more beer), you will get to know your smoker in time and know how long it takes by the amount of beers you've had. Take out of foil and return to smoker to dry off and finish, another 30-60 mins or so. Don't go fall off the bone, as others have mentioned, they should bend and crack at the bones when ready but not break.

Shoulder, super easy, rub (with a bit more salt than the rib rub), smoker for a long time, when you hit the stall (around 165ish) wrap it and return to the smoker. If you want sliced pork, go to about 190-195, pulled you just go by feel (around 200F-205F). When the stick a probe in and feels like room temp butter it's ready. Let rest for 30 mins to an hour (make sure temps go down when you remove it or else it keeps cooking. you can cover it after it has gone down, towel, cooler, oven at 170F whatever suits you.   

I like pork belly on the smoker, a bit fatty, but I eat around the bigger chinks of rendered fat. 

basic rub for pork (measures are very approximate), 2 finger of paprika or other pepper powder (I like chipotle, guajillo, ancho instead of paprika), 1/4 to 1/2 finger of kosher salt (or just sprinkle the salt on the meat before the rub) use less salt for ribs, more for shoulder, 1 finger coarse cracked pepper, you can add a little bit of onion and garlic powder (size of a nickel or quarter, to taste), I use a pinch of Jamaican all spice. Taste and add whatever you think would work, you can add 1 finger of sugar (less or more to taste), but watch your meat, it will tend to darken more and burn of there is too much). Go a little bold on flavor of dry rub, taste will be attenuated a bit when, if you don't like it adjust add more paprika, pepper, salt, whatever is off. 

Some sauce the pork heavy, some leave it dry or somewhere in the middle.     

On the wood. I don't know what you have in Aus, I like cherry, apple, maple, hickory. go with less wood smoke and first and work your way up to find the sweet spot.  

On the charcoal, lump has better flavor but can sometimes be less consistent, briquette is more consistent. Look for the minion method online (what I do) or snake method can work well with ribs. 

Smoked turkey is amazing, brine overnight, pat dry, add salt/pepper (50/50), unsalted butter under the skin and smoke at 275F-300F until desired doneness. 

[Fuzz]

3 hours ago, MoeFOH said:

Thanks Mike. Saw those when researching the purchase. They look great, but yeah, a little exxy for my purposes at present. Definitely look at them down the track. Cheers!

Don't bother. Get a Chargriller Acorn kamado when they are on sale at Bunnings. Half the price, and no issues of potentially cracking the firebox. Just give the bottom vent plate a bit of adjustment, as they are not always tight.

[MoeFOH]

On 6/12/2020 at 1:25 PM, Phillys said:

I learned to BBQ when I was a kid. Best advice I was given is keep it simple at first. 

Get a good thermometer with probe, once for the chamber, one for the meat. Use temps as a guide, nothing replaces feel and touch. You can look at cook times on the web (in relation to temp) for a very rough estimate, but be ready to go over or under by a good margin depending on that specific piece of meat. Smoker temp anywhere between 225 to 275ish works, I don't stress about rock solid temps and still make killer BBQ. 

Beef - Kosher salt, pepper, wood smoke, simple beef has a lot of flavor and stands up well with minimal seasoning.  I find finish temp range is narrow for beef, some cuts a bit under cooked and it's tough, a bit overcooked and it's dry. Brisket, short ribs, chuck, tail, cheeks work well in a smoker. 

Pork is just magic, extremely versatile and IMO more forgiving than beef brisket or  beef short ribs. Ribs, shoulder, cheeks, belly, hams, hocks, tongue, everything goes with pork, except for loins and chops, I find them better on the grill.  

Pork ribs are easy, try the 3-2-1 method at 225F (always ends up 2-2-1 when I do it). Remove the membrane on the underside, trim the narrow end a bit to where you have bones (put the trim on the smoker for a quick Dad snack). Apply rub, wait 5 minutes drink beer, put on grill, bone side down 2 hours (or 3) until you have a good bark and drink more beer. Wrap in foil with apple cider vinegar or apple juice or whatever liquid you like, stout or beer can work also, bit of brown sugar. back in the smoker for another 2ish hours (more beer), you will get to know your smoker in time and know how long it takes by the amount of beers you've had. Take out of foil and return to smoker to dry off and finish, another 30-60 mins or so. Don't go fall off the bone, as others have mentioned, they should bend and crack at the bones when ready but not break.

Shoulder, super easy, rub (with a bit more salt than the rib rub), smoker for a long time, when you hit the stall (around 165ish) wrap it and return to the smoker. If you want sliced pork, go to about 190-195, pulled you just go by feel (around 200F-205F). When the stick a probe in and feels like room temp butter it's ready. Let rest for 30 mins to an hour (make sure temps go down when you remove it or else it keeps cooking. you can cover it after it has gone down, towel, cooler, oven at 170F whatever suits you.   

I like pork belly on the smoker, a bit fatty, but I eat around the bigger chinks of rendered fat. 

basic rub for pork (measures are very approximate), 2 finger of paprika or other pepper powder (I like chipotle, guajillo, ancho instead of paprika), 1/4 to 1/2 finger of kosher salt (or just sprinkle the salt on the meat before the rub) use less salt for ribs, more for shoulder, 1 finger coarse cracked pepper, you can add a little bit of onion and garlic powder (size of a nickel or quarter, to taste), I use a pinch of Jamaican all spice. Taste and add whatever you think would work, you can add 1 finger of sugar (less or more to taste), but watch your meat, it will tend to darken more and burn of there is too much). Go a little bold on flavor of dry rub, taste will be attenuated a bit when, if you don't like it adjust add more paprika, pepper, salt, whatever is off. 

Some sauce the pork heavy, some leave it dry or somewhere in the middle.     

On the wood. I don't know what you have in Aus, I like cherry, apple, maple, hickory. go with less wood smoke and first and work your way up to find the sweet spot.  

On the charcoal, lump has better flavor but can sometimes be less consistent, briquette is more consistent. Look for the minion method online (what I do) or snake method can work well with ribs. 

Smoked turkey is amazing, brine overnight, pat dry, add salt/pepper (50/50), unsalted butter under the skin and smoke at 275F-300F until desired doneness. 

Thanks for the detail here - brilliant stuff! Much appreciated.