Pirahna: Dress Box Quality VS Cabs

[El Presidente]

Pirahna's Question.

1). Cab. vs. reg. (dress) box for the same cigar - Why do so many people say that the cigars in one style box (cab version), taste, smoke or age better than the other type?

Do they? What's everyone's take on this?

I believe Cabinet cigars Age faster than dress boxes just through the essence of Tobacco on Tobacco. Onthe issue of quality...there is no longer a difference. There are great Cabs and there are appalling cabs. Great Dress boxes and appalling ones as well. Those who have spent time in Havana factories see that no seperation takes place between cigars destined for dress boxes or cabs.

[Ken Gargett]

i thought that fact that more air/oxygen circulates around cabs than it does around dress boxes also played a part?

[josie67]

» i thought that fact that more air/oxygen circulates around cabs than it

» does around dress boxes also played a part?

I had heard that as well.

[shrink]

» i thought that fact that more air/oxygen circulates around cabs than it

» does around dress boxes also played a part?

Perhaps this explains why Ken and Rob are aging at different rates...

[habanohal]

I hear ya... but doenst MRN say that dress boxes actually age quicker than cabs??

If I am wrong, sorry. Thought that is what I read

[harwellplant]

there is an ongoing and very interesting debate as to the interplay of air flow and ageing in cigars. mrn does opine dress box age somewhat better and, if i recall correctly, that tubes are even better because of the "wine in a bottle" effect. i know several experienced smokers who tight seal or shrink wrap their boxes to prevent airflow for this reason. i know others who remove dress box cigars and place them into cabs or slb's for better airflow.

the debate (especially at one other site frequented by very informed individuals and which is most often the main posting site by many here at foh) has produced a lot of opinion and scientific argument. from what i have read - the jury is out.

[raney]

MRN does suggest cabs provide overall better (and slower) aging, and I believe he says this is also due to less exchange through the box to the 'outside' - thus varnished are the best, but also the slowest, to age according to him.

I have also heard it commonly stated that cabinet selections come from the best of the rolled stock, followed by DB's (though there seems to be disagreement even among those who ahve been to the factories) - maybe Rob and Ken can look into this on their trip

Personally, I just like round cigars better, all else being equal.

[Mel]

Let us be completely logical here, three rules apply.

1. A cab will be better if better quality cigars are put into it

2. A box will be better if better quality cigars are put into it

3. If all quality is the same then, a cab is exactly twice as good:-P

[Wiley]

Damn it, there's absolutely no place for logic when discussing cigars on a bulletin board! You're one of them there agitators, ain't ya?

[Ken Gargett]

» Let us be completely logical here, three rules apply.

»

» 1. A cab will be better if better quality cigars are put into it

» 2. A box will be better if better quality cigars are put into it

» 3. If all quality is the same then, a cab is exactly twice as

» good:-P

spot on, tho i also like 'em round.

[El Presidente]

!LOL! Mel.

Opinions in this industry are like assholes....everyody has one.

I know MRN's viewpoint and I certainly would not dismiss it out of hand.

His ageing theory makes sense.However, I am all for oxygen circulating in and around cigars. I think like grapes on a vine these conditions enhance proper maturation. Im my humle opinion I believe cabs mature faster than dress boxes....02 Partagas Corona Cabs Vs 02 Partagas Corona Dress boxes are a case in point. The 02 Partagas Cabs are far more approachale and complex in flavour now.

As for quality differential.....humbug. Opening over 50,000 boxes and cabs has dispelled that myth for me.

and of course.....we are talking only about one part of the ageing puzzle. I would hazard a guess that constant temp and RH control has 90% more effect on the end result. Will cigars stored at 16 degrees Celcius 65 RH mature "better" than a cigar at 19 degrees and 68 RH?

I can't answer that but I bet it has more effect on the end result of maturation than the "Cab/Dress box debate".

[The Privateer]

»

» As for quality differential.....humbug. Opening over 50,000 boxes and cabs

» has dispelled that myth for me.

»

Thanks for the perspective El Prez. Most of us consumers base our (mis)conceptions on hearsay and our limited experience (50 or 500 boxes) as compared with your retail expertise.

[korryp]

A good read. Thanks for the info.

[jwrussell]

Seems to be some disconnects here with people stating the exact opposite of each other. The general info from MRN and everywhere else I've read is:

Dress boxes age faster and less "gracefully" (:-D a) than do Cabs. This is due to less air interchange with Cabs than with Dress boxes.

Or, to put it another way, Cabs age more slowly than do DBs.

I am no expert of course.:-)

[Mel]

» Damn it, there's absolutely no place for logic when discussing cigars on a

» bulletin board! You're one of them there agitators, ain't ya?

Yep!

Rules of aging are made to be broken like any other rule so, I'll make my choice according to the quality not the packaging;-)

[Ginseng]

The whole aging thing is such a black art. Although some liken it to the aging of wines, the fact that cigars (whether in cabs or dressed boxes, but excepting foil-pack sealed such as R&J Cazadores/Quintero Brevas) are well exposed to oxygen no matter the packaging, suggests that the process is, if anything, even more complicated.

The simple reason being that it involves aerobic as well as anaerobic processes. Someone on this board posted the exact chemistry but I can't find that link.

However, I think the more relevant factor concerning dressed vs. cabs is one that I've never seen mentioned. That of the interaction and co-degradation with the liner paper. In my opinion, this is a far more significant contributor to evolving taste differences than the insignificant difference in oxygen exposure could ever be.

Consider this. Most general purpose paper, including industrial and product packaging, is acid process. Paper is also filled with surfactants, starches and other binders, minerals (for whiteness and cutting properties), and dyes and pigments. In other words, a reactive chemical mush. You're also probably aware that you can buy "archival" paper which is "basic" or caustic process, resulting in a pH higher than 7-ish and thus retarding the deterioriation of the paper fibers. Then, you've got to consider the glue that they use. Is it starch based? Animal hide (unlikely)? PVA?

So, on this particular issue, MRN is off base or has prioritized incorrectly. As far as air and oxygen infiltration, I'd bet cigars that there is vanishingly little difference between dressed boxes and cabs. The aggressiveness of the chemical environment, however, I'm willing to bet is significantly diffferent.

If I had some pH paper, I'd do a litmus test on a few cigars to see what their intrinsic pH level is.

Wilkey

[El Presidente]

Wilkey...you could be our FOH Professor !LOL!

Great post.

[Ginseng]

» Wilkey...you could be our FOH Professor !LOL!

»

» Great post.

Rob,

I'd rather hold the office of "Resident Lush and Bon Vivant Extraordinaire" but I reckon Ken has a life appointment there.

Wilkey

[El Presidente]

» » Wilkey...you could be our FOH Professor !LOL!

» »

» » Great post.

»

» Rob,

»

» I'd rather hold the office of "Resident Lush and Bon Vivant

» Extraordinaire" but I reckon Ken has a life appointment there.

»

» Wilkey

Yes...a lifetime of debauchery makes him emminently suitable.

[piranha]

Lot's of good info.

[CIGARHead]

» The whole aging thing is such a black art. Although some liken it to the

» aging of wines, the fact that cigars (whether in cabs or dressed boxes,

» but excepting foil-pack sealed such as R&J Cazadores/Quintero Brevas) are

» well exposed to oxygen no matter the packaging, suggests that the process

» is, if anything, even more complicated.

»

» The simple reason being that it involves aerobic as well as anaerobic

» processes. Someone on this board posted the exact chemistry but I can't

» find that link.

»

» However, I think the more relevant factor concerning dressed vs. cabs is

» one that I've never seen mentioned. That of the interaction and

» co-degradation with the liner paper. In my opinion, this is a far more

» significant contributor to evolving taste differences than the

» insignificant difference in oxygen exposure could ever be.

»

» Consider this. Most general purpose paper, including industrial and

» product packaging, is acid process. Paper is also filled with surfactants,

» starches and other binders, minerals (for whiteness and cutting

» properties), and dyes and pigments. In other words, a reactive chemical

» mush. You're also probably aware that you can buy "archival" paper which

» is "basic" or caustic process, resulting in a pH higher than 7-ish and

» thus retarding the deterioriation of the paper fibers. Then, you've got to

» consider the glue that they use. Is it starch based? Animal hide

» (unlikely)? PVA?

»

» So, on this particular issue, MRN is off base or has prioritized

» incorrectly. As far as air and oxygen infiltration, I'd bet cigars that

» there is vanishingly little difference between dressed boxes and cabs. The

» aggressiveness of the chemical environment, however, I'm willing to bet is

» significantly diffferent.

»

» If I had some pH paper, I'd do a litmus test on a few cigars to see what

» their intrinsic pH level is.

»

» Wilkey

Yeah, what Wilkey said:lookaround:

Great info on such a disputed topic.

[Fatshotbud]

» Lot's of good info.

Yup -- round ;-)

[kab55]

Very interesting info & round is good :-)

[Wiley]

If this is true, maybe we should be taking cigars that only come in dress boxes and move them to empty cabs?

[Phailure]

The who killed the what now??