Is the truth important?

[99call]

So the UK is currently going through a very very dark political story, (which I wont go into) but, we are basically being asked to swallow something which is obviously horse shit. 

As recent as 2009 there was another political scandal in the UK, called 'The expenses scandal', where both major parties had offenders claim from public monies for things like a duck house in a pond, pay per view porn, and a £2 bath plug......I'm not making this up, it happened.         But!.......but!   the offenders were pointed out, they were covered in shame, and many resignations followed.  It meant something

In the modern era of gaslighting, and endless kitten videos.  the modern day political svengali's depend of joe publics attention span to be reduced to the width of a goldfish bowl. and the life of any hair-raising story to be 3 days tops. 

My question is this.. do we still care about the truth?  I don't have kids,  but I know many of you do, and truth in the home would surely be as important as it's ever been.  Do we care that truth outside of the family unit is being reduced to forgotten concept?

if this is the new normal, it makes me want to throw up

[Markspring1978]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I suspect it has always been this way. Historically, the media covered for offenders. In an era of instant “journalism” and ubiquitous cameras, perhaps there is more accountability in our society.

Politicians lying is not a new phenomenon, I’m afraid. 

Also, the “truth” tends to be subjective to align with the confirmation bias of the outraged individual. 

[El Presidente]

My question is this.. do we still care about the truth

 

100% care If it is coming from a partner, friend, family,  colleague. 

I have zero expectation of a politician telling the truth.  Same goes for most media.  

 

[El Presidente]

Just now, El Presidente said:

 

I have zero expectation of a politician telling the truth.  Same goes for most media.  

 

...and it doesn't bother me.  I can't recall a golden period when they ever were. 

[captaincaveman]

Its been quite a long time since a politician had the people’s best interest at heart.

[Dozerhead]

I don't expect the truth from politicians, regardless of party affiliation. 

[FatherOfPugs]

Truth, absolutely important. Whether we actually get it is another. 

[...]

Populations would need to be re-educated to be able to manage truth from their elected officials.

I would love to try it and see what comes out of it...

[99call]

6 hours ago, Markspring1978 said:

Politicians lying is not a new phenomenon, I’m afraid.

Sorry, I'm not really referencing run of the mill political lying.  As I mentioned in the first post, there was (as recent as 10yrs ago in the UK) an understood situation that if MP's and political advisors, were found to have been involved in scandals so terrible,  there was an expectancy that they would either be sacked, or more preferable hand in their badge. 

What I'm trying to say, (and I realise I said it poorly in the first post),   It feels as if the lying from governments has moved into a new phase,  whereby they couldn't care less if they get caught.......they just go "so what!  what are you going to do about it?".   I do think this is a new level of degeneracy. 

We in the UK used to have some degree of accountability between elections. that now seems to be a thing of the past

[99call]

7 hours ago, El Presidente said:

...and it doesn't bother me.  I can't recall a golden period when they ever were. 

As I tried to lay out above,  Apologies it's not necessarily the truth itself, I can 100% accept, the truth has been a foreign concept to politicians since the Pharoah's.

It's more the accountability to fall on the sword when they buggered up in the worst possible way.  In the UK at least, this gaslighting, and denial of what is plainly in front of the publics gaze, feels like a new degeneracy. 

[El Presidente]

1 hour ago, 99call said:

As I tried to lay out above,  Apologies it's not necessarily the truth itself, I can 100% accept, the truth has been a foreign concept to politicians since the Pharoah's.

It's more the accountability to fall on the sword when they buggered up in the worst possible way.  In the UK at least, this gaslighting, and denial of what is plainly in front of the publics gaze, feels like a new degeneracy. 

I would love them to fall on their sword but in the end it is what the party believes they can endure or get away with. 

Polling day is the only thing they really fear. 

...and they need to be loose with the truth in order to be re-elected. 

[99call]

2 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

I would love them to fall on their sword but in the end it is what the party believes they can endure or get away with. 

Polling day is the only thing they really fear. 

...and they need to be loose with the truth in order to be re-elected. 

Yep I get it, 

I guess I was wondering how this intensified degree of shamelessness, is impacting peoples respect for accountability and truth within the home, and in the work place. For the younger generation coming this must look like an absolute horror show. 

As an illustration, scientists and the pollsters have suggested the most recent Cummings scandal, has impacted the publics likelihood to respect lockdown rules.  So I do believe it does have an effect on the general populous's approach to their own lives. .  

I'm just wondering how bad it can get, and will a society ever have it in them to revolt again? or are they just happily sedated watching netflix. 

[El Presidente]

I think few people care. 

If you rely on politicians to be role models......you have issues 

Kids are taught this as well. Politicians, media/journalists, religious leaders....all are taken with a grain of salt. 

[99call]

17 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

I think few people care. 

If you rely on politicians to be role models......you have issues 

Kids are taught this as well. Politicians, media/journalists, religious leaders....all are taken with a grain of salt. 

As well as the top of society leading the way up.   Politicians set the lowest bar, this is also important, and thats what I am saying.  We cannot fall into the trap of saying "ah well, it doesn't mean anything".   Politicians getting worse and worse, as an equal a reflection on mankind, as the very best of us.   We can not fall into the trap of just saying it does not matter

[Riverstyx]

I watched Citizen Kane for the first time a few months ago. And then did a little bit of research. Surprising how corrupt the media was even back then - truth be damned. 

[99call]

3 minutes ago, Riverstyx said:

I watched Citizen Kane for the first time a few months ago. And then did a little bit of research. Surprising how corrupt the media was even back then - truth be damned. 

As centre left voter, I can completely accept the media has gotten more and more owned and directed by the leading political parties, and it's sad to see. 

I'm interested in your opinion,  how would you like to see politicians scrutinised?  Looking over the pond, I largely see the US and two completely bias sets of media, and therefore no use to anyone.   It's getting that way in the UK,  sadly.    Do you even think politicians should be scrutinised/held to account?

[Colt45]

the truth shall set you free

truth lies in the eye of the beholder

the truth is rarely pure and never simple

you want the truth? you can't handle the truth

 

[El Presidente]

1 hour ago, 99call said:

Do you even think politicians should be scrutinised/held to account?

They are held to account every election and in the end they are the pick of the people. That is why I have nightmares of  being judged by a jury 

Focusing one's mind and energy elsewhere is far more rewarding. Government and politicians are to be avoided like droppings on a sidewalk. You go around them and eventually they break down and wash away. 

 

[Chibearsv]

Corruption is a different thing from lying.  Lying is part and parcel of corruption and should be expected if corruption exists.  We Illinoisans are very familiar with political corruption and are almost numb to it because it seems there's nothing that can be done to remedy the depths to which it exists here.  When the corrupt are the ones enacting and enforcing law, how can it change?  My opinion - Politics shouldn't be a career, it should be a temporary service.

As for expecting truth from government in general, I'm not sure it's the government's responsibility to be 100% truthful much like it's not really a parent's responsibility.  But they should be held accountable for their governance.  That should be the role of unbiased oversight which I'm thinking is a thing of the past (if ever).  

[Fuzz]

 

[Markspring1978]

32 minutes ago, Chibearsv said:

My opinion - Politics shouldn't be a career, it should be a temporary service.

100,000% this! 

[Matt Day]

1 minute ago, Markspring1978 said:

100,000% this! 

Agreed I would say  that although g it was made nearly forty years ago the TV sereis Yes Minister and yes prime minister shows  exactly what politicians are. They are puppets who  curry or court or fear  the press and in a way that is most beneficial to them and they will only resign if they have no other choice. 

[cigaraholic]

Do we still care about the truth.....let me ask the Queen of Alternative Facts and I’ll get back to you.

[99call]

3 hours ago, Chibearsv said:

My opinion - Politics shouldn't be a career, it should be a temporary service.

Yep,  I'd second this.   I follow the logic that power is best placed in the hands of those who don't desperately try and track it down.   A years national service would be just the ticket. 

In the UK, this 'lucky dip' into society, would magically all be Eton educated.  they'd find some way of corrupting it. 

[Islandboy]

I think most people care about the truth, but as @Markspring1978 stated, the truth is very subjective, seemingly more so now than ever. Ask anyone commenting on Twitter, Facebook, etc if they’re speaking the truth. I suspect yes is the answer 100% of the time. As far as actual fact and truth go, I figure this is off by about 95%.