Vintage boxes= more sweetness?

[Smokecigareveryday]

Do vintage cigars (2015 and older) have more sweetness than young cigars?  I am thinking of purchasing a box of 2015 vintage San Cristobal El Princep

[jazzboypro]

Just my 2 cents but is a 2015 box really considered as vintage ?

[Smokecigareveryday]

To me it is since I have never smoked a box older than 2 years. 

1 minute ago, jazzboypro said:

Just my 2 cents but is a 2015 box really considered as vintage ?

 

[jazzboypro]

I suppose the term vintage as different meaning to different people. For me a vintage box of cigars would at least be 20 YO. It does not mean that the 20 yo box will taste better than a 5 yo box though.

[The Squiggler]

My observation has been that aging tends to smooth out some of the rough edges characteristic of young cigars.  Sweet flavors are present in certain cigars, young and old, but in the absence of acridity and bitterness, the more subtle flavors tend to shine through more.  Just because a cigar is aged doesn't mean it's going to taste sweet though... you need to choose the right cigar.  People tend to get sweet flavors with SCdLH, so it's probably a good box to try out.  I'd suggest doing yourself a favor though by conducting a few experiments:  compare the 2015 el Principe with one from ~2019, for example, and see what you think.  Since they'll be from different boxes it'd be kind of a control-less experiment, but it should give you some idea what aging can do for your cigars.

[RijkdeGooier]

To us old timers

0-2 fresh

2-5 rested

5-10 aged

10+ vintage

[CaptainQuintero]

I think it's a difficult one as everyone's tastes are personal.

  To me I find that generally leather tends to change to cream from 4+ years, the more so the longer you go. It has a sweet spiced nature in Partagas. It has a sweet mocha nature in Montecristo 

  I've found that some cigars that start off with a stone fruit sweetness like SLR tend to lose the sugar sweetness and develop more into a sticky ripe profile. But you can certainly gain a sweeter note in individual cigars, for example in Por Larranaga PCs, they to me gain a caramel nature when older, but I wouldn't say sugar syrup sweet.

  Cohiba certainly to me comes together with age and the balance shows which lets a sweetness in.

  For me if I was looking for sugar sweet I'd go for individual cigars with that aspect opposed to searching for a blanket profile that can come with age, as it's not entirely reliable if you only want one aspect.

  I guess what I'm coming around to is what are you looking for specifically?

[Wailbait]

I can’t speak to whether older cigars are “sweeter” per se.  I tend to smoke cigars with a few years because I generally prefer that.  Having said that, very recently I smoked an AME 13, EML 15 and TOS 17 of the Principe.  The EML 15 was the sweetest.  So, if you are looking for a sweeter profile, that 15 was a joy.  The 13 was more complex and refined but some of the sweetness was gone.  Cigars aging is road.  

[Smokecigareveryday]

1 hour ago, CaptainQuintero said:

I think it's a difficult one as everyone's tastes are personal.

  To me I find that generally leather tends to change to cream from 4+ years, the more so the longer you go. It has a sweet spiced nature in Partagas. It has a sweet mocha nature in Montecristo 

  I've found that some cigars that start off with a stone fruit sweetness like SLR tend to lose the sugar sweetness and develop more into a sticky ripe profile. But you can certainly gain a sweeter note in individual cigars, for example in Por Larranaga PCs, they to me gain a caramel nature when older, but I wouldn't say sugar syrup sweet.

  Cohiba certainly to me comes together with age and the balance shows which lets a sweetness in.

  For me if I was looking for sugar sweet I'd go for individual cigars with that aspect opposed to searching for a blanket profile that can come with age, as it's not entirely reliable if you only want one aspect.

  I guess what I'm coming around to is what are you looking for specifically?

I am looking for earthy sweetness. 

[El Presidente]

1 hour ago, jazzboypro said:

Just my 2 cents but is a 2015 box really considered as vintage ?

aged, not vintage. 

[Puros Y Vino]

The vintage is defined as "year of when a wine was produced".  

Wine made in 2019 is a vintage. As is wine made in 1920.  As cigars borrows terminology and concepts from the wine world, the actual meanings transpose well.  However, it is also used  colloquially where a wine is at least 20 years old.  

In regards to the actual question asked.  I find "vintage" cigars to exhibit a  "smoothness" over a sweetness.  I do find older cigars can tend to develop floral aromas and flavours over time.  And technically any nicotine in the leaf is pretty much gone after 20 years.

[jazzboypro]

30 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

aged, not vintage. 

I thought aged would be more at the 10 yo mark. 

[Smokecigareveryday]

I find young ( 1 to 2 years of age) CCs to be very smooth compared to NCs.  How smooth does a CC get after 5 years?  I hope it does not lose strength and flavor in exchange for more smoothness. 

[Silverstix]

I find young ( 1 to 2 years of age) CCs to be very smooth compared to NCs.  How smooth does a CC get after 5 years?  I hope it does not lose strength and flavor in exchange for more smoothness. 

Typically I’ve seen more smoothness in aged cigars. Maybe that smoothness allows sweet flavors to come through, but I wouldn’t say age = sweetness. I’d say age = smooth. And not all aged cigars get smooth over time, some stay the way they are more or less.

Aged cigars aren’t necessarily better. They are different. You may not like what a 5-10 year old Cuban cigar tastes like. I’d suggest trying an aged example (a 5’er if you can find it) before your buy a box.

I’m smoking a Bolivar Royal Corona from FEB 2018. I also have a box from AGO 2014. I love 2014’s right now because they are so smooth. But this 2018 definitely has more flavor. I can say I like them both for different reasons.

I guess I’m trying to say to proceed slowly.


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[Smokecigareveryday]

T

2 minutes ago, Silverstix said:

Typically I’ve seen more smoothness in aged cigars. Maybe that smoothness allows sweet flavors to come through, but I wouldn’t say age = sweetness. I’d say age = smooth. And not all aged cigars get smooth over time, some stay the way they are more or less.

Aged cigars aren’t necessarily better. They are different. You may not like what a 5-10 year old Cuban cigar tastes like. I’d suggest trying an aged example (a 5’er if you can find it) before your buy a box.

I’m smoking a Bolivar Royal Corona from FEB 2018. I also have a box from AGO 2014. I love 2014’s right now because they are so smooth. But this 2018 definitely has more flavor. I can say I like them both for different reasons.

I guess I’m trying to say to proceed slowly.


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Thanks for the input.  I have no problems so far enjoying relatively young boxes (2018-2019).  I will always choose more flavor over more smooth. 

[Markspring1978]

1 hour ago, bundwallah said:

And technically any nicotine in the leaf is pretty much gone after 20 years.

Depends on the blend. I smoked Punch SS2 from ‘02 today. Almost knocked my on my ass. Much stronger than most 2 or 3 YO smokes. 

[Silverstix]

T
Thanks for the input.  I have no problems so far enjoying relatively young boxes (2018-2019).  I will always choose more flavor over more smooth. 

You’re welcome. It’s a little bit of a dance....sometimes young boxes have more flavor but they have some “rough edges” that hold back it’s full potential. I’d say (generally speaking) most cigars won’t lose much flavor in the first 5 years. After that, you may see diminishing returns based on what you like in a cigar. I’d watch the FOH video review of the aged Montecristo Petit Edmundo, there is some great info in there from Rob about walking the line with smoothness vs flavor.


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[El Presidente]

1 hour ago, jazzboypro said:

I thought aged would be more at the 10 yo mark. 

There are no hard and fast rules.

Let me dirty the water.?

I would consider a 5 year old Principe......aged

I would consider a 5 year old Partagas 898....rested 

 

 

[Smokecigareveryday]

2 minutes ago, Silverstix said:

You’re welcome. It’s a little bit of a dance....sometimes young boxes have more flavor but they have some “rough edges” that hold back it’s full potential. I’d say (generally speaking) most cigars won’t lose much flavor in the first 5 years. After that, you may see diminishing returns based on what you like in a cigar. I’d watch the FOH video review of the aged Montecristo Petit Edmundo, there is some great info in there from Rob about walking the line with smoothness vs flavor.


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Monte PE is probably my favorite Cubans so far. I have smoked two boxes- 2018 and 2019.  I noticed that the 2018 PE had more richness than the 2019. 

[Silverstix]

Monte PE is probably my favorite Cubans so far. I have smoked two boxes- 2018 and 2019.  I noticed that the 2018 PE had more richness than the 2019. 

Then definitely check out the review. As an example, Rob talks about how - for his tastes - Monte PE kind of peaks at 3-4 years....after that they lose that chocolate cocoa bomb and start to mellow a little more than he prefers.


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[jazzboypro]

19 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

There are no hard and fast rules.

Let me dirty the water.?

I would consider a 5 year old Principe......aged

I would consider a 5 year old Partagas 898....rested 

 

 

It does make sense that cigars age differently over the same number of years. Kind of like people ?

[Smokecigareveryday]

16 minutes ago, Silverstix said:

Then definitely check out the review. As an example, Rob talks about how - for his tastes - Monte PE kind of peaks at 3-4 years....after that they lose that chocolate cocoa bomb and start to mellow a little more than he prefers.


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I am unable to find a video review on Monte PE on FOH TV.  I probably have seen all the Monte PE reviews on Youtube. 

[JohnS]

5 minutes ago, Smokecigareveryday said:

I am unable to find a video review on Monte PE on FOH TV.  I probably have seen all the Monte PE reviews on Youtube. 

These videos below should keep you busy for awhile...

 

 

 

[El Presidente]

2 hours ago, jazzboypro said:

It does make sense that cigars age differently over the same number of years. Kind of like people ?

I believe much of it comes down to the blend. 

Principe at 5 years is turning the final bend coming into the straight. 

Partagas 898 at 5 years has just settled following the jump. 

[CaptainQuintero]

12 hours ago, Smokecigareveryday said:

I am looking for earthy sweetness. 

So there's a few which come to mind from my tastes, earthy can be quite a broad sweep so I'll try to scattergun a few ideas for you. I'd be going for regular production personally.

-Bolivar, can have a malty treacle style sweetness, there's a core of earthy/rustic leather. Bolivar is reasonably unique in that you don't particularly need any age to see what they are going to offer. In my experience from a year onwards they have settled down a lot. 

-Montecristo, can have a real dark musty sweetness. It's been described as barnyard here and I think that's a good grasp. The Especial No1 is that to me. Rich and dark, there's a heavy sweetness, I wouldn't go to say it's earthy but it lives in a brooding dank place that Montecristo doesn't usually go to. 

-Partagas, I wouldn't describe as earthy but depending on what you're seeking I think it's worth a look as there's something you could say that could lean that way in the younger cigars. D4, Shorts would be where I'd go.

-Punch, This might be where you need to delve into. To me there's a core of sweet earthy darkness. Punch Punch right there. Their regional editions, specifically the Asia Pacific (FoH) have been great imo. The Punch Sabrosos I remember being all sweet, forest floor dank earthy but really balanced with some beautiful delicate notes. People are saying good things about the Punch 48.

-Ramon Allones Small Club Corona. To me it's the RA with the sweetness more up front, stewed fruit style. Again I wouldn't jump to describe it as earthy but there's a dark character to them, again in younger ones.

 -RyJ can be a real sweetshop brand but there's a huge spectrum from jammy, herbal, vegetal. The Cazadores is where I'd head for personally. In fact thinking about it more, this might be where I'd start from.

-Sancho Panza is a decent idea, belicosos is light but there's a definite earthy nature to them, a salty undertone that works well with a bitter dark chocolate aspect.

  It could be worth looking into some maduro wrappers,they usually give a earthy, dark chocolate nature to whatever they are wrapped to. I haven't really explored much of the new maduro lines. I remember the Monte D being right as you'd be looking for. The Cohiba Maduro lines, the Secretos jumps out at me.

  Overall probably Punch would be something I'd be gravitating to but this is still through my tastes. The good news is that delving into and around new cigars is one of the best parts of this hobby. Grab a load of singles and see how things taste to you