Ontario to consult on cannabis consumption lounges

[LLC]

This makes my blood boil. When they legalized it a number of us commented that next thing you know there would be lounges. As I recall one if those conversations was at the now closed LCDH Toronto where smoking a legal product that does not impair you is illegal inside or on the patio.

 

Maybe they can convert the soon closing LCDH in Montreal to a pot lounge.

 

This is my favorite part

 

allowing people to consume legal pot in a public venue is likely to improve public awareness of the drug while reducing any stigma associated with it.

 

https://www.bnn.ca/1.1387831.1581361694

 

 

Ontario launched a consultation process Monday to solicit input about potentially permitting cannabis consumption in lounges, outdoor festivals and concerts across the province.

The provincial government said it is collecting feedback now to explore future policies that could result in a more open cannabis market, although no changes to existing legislation are expected and there is no timeline provided on when a decision could be made. Any new legislation tabled by the Ontario government is also expected to leave smoke-free laws intact, meaning that there would be no public indoor smoking or vaping permitted in the province.

While it is unknown how much economic impact cannabis consumption lounges could have in Ontario, allowing people to consume legal pot in a public venue is likely to improve public awareness of the drug while reducing any stigma associated with it.

 

 

“We don’t have any specific policies that we’re looking at. This is a true listening exercise,” said Ontario Attorney General Doug Downey in a phone interview with BNN Bloomberg. “We want to hear what Ontarians have to say on lounges, cafes, that kind of thing. It’s not really predetermined that we’ll make any decisions at all but we want to hear from the public."

“We’re at a stage where I want to stay ahead of the curve and we want to make sure that we have the right information as new [industries] start to arise,” he added.

 

Despite their legalization in certain markets around the world, it is still relatively early days for cannabis consumption lounges. Holland has established laws to freely allows cannabis users to consume in the country’s “coffeeshops”; other locations in the U.S. and Canada are only starting to explore allowing pot to be legally consumed in those venues, either through an infused food or drink option, or by inhaling it.

Given the current legislation in Canada that legalized cannabis in Oct. 2018, some businesses have dipped their toes into onsite cannabis consumption usage through private parties and dinners. Cannabis lounges are already permitted in Nunavut, but only non-smoked legal pot will be allowed to be consumed in communities that allow them to operate, according to the territory’s marijuana legislation.

Trina Fraser, co-managing partner at Brazeau Seller Law, said the consultation will likely examine whether it’s feasible to sell finished cannabis-infused drinks and edibles in places that sell alcohol as well, raising further questions about potential overconsumption cases, she said.

“What we’re talking about is situations where you could purchase an edible product just as you would purchase it at a retail store, but also a place where you could consume it on site. Right now, you can’t do that,” Fraser said in a phone interview with BNN Bloomberg.

Will Stewart, president of Cannaglobal Canada Co., which plans to operate cannabis consumption lounges under its ByMinistry brand, said there will be challenges in legalizing such establishments, but noted the process will be important to gauge what kind of issues people in the province may have when using pot publicly.

“We believe that the future of consumption isn’t smokable,” Stewart said in a phone interview with BNN Bloomberg.

“There’s always going to be smokers of cannabis and that’s not going to stop now that it’s legal. But for us, our focus is using cannabis much like how you might spend a night out at a nice restaurant rather than how you see people currently smoking it.”

In September, the Lowell Café in Los Angeles became the first restaurant in the U.S. to allow customers to order pot as if it were a bottle of wine. A month later, the Las Vegas Paiute opened a dispensary on its sovereign land which included Nevada’s first cannabis tasting room, sidestepping a law that restricts marijuana consumption to private residences until July 2021.

Downey wouldn’t say if any of the province’s legal cannabis stores would be considered part of its consumption plans.

He added there are more than 700 applications made by people who want to open a legal cannabis store in the province. That process will move to awarding retail store authorizations on Mar. 2, with the first stores expected to open a month later, he said.

“We know that we need to have more stores,” Downey said. “We moved to an open market as fast as we thought was reasonable because we had to address those three primary concerns: getting rid of the illicit market, protecting kids and protecting communities.”

 

 

 

 

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[El Presidente]

the hypocrisy is sickening  

[tigger]

I'm strongly pro-cannabis, and think it's a much less damaging drug than alcohol.

But the above is as stupid and hypocritical as it gets.

[LLC]

I'm strongly pro-cannabis, and think it's a much less damaging drug than alcohol.
But the above is as stupid and hypocritical as it gets.

I’m not against cannabis but the hypocrisy now that they can smell all the tax revenue they can get from it and then squander well saying its to protect “the kids” is beyond belief.


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[Fuzz]

Can I then sue because of secondhand pot smoke?

Every time I see this being put forward as a positive thing, and that restrictions need to be eased or allowed in more venues, I'm brought back to this...

 

[Lotusguy]

Mind-blowing... and I’m worried this will give some politicians in my home state ideas.

[havanaclub]

Does not surprise me. Oh how I love my province.


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[teamrandr]

I am a bit puzzled as to why this is so upsetting.   

[LLC]

I am a bit puzzled as to why this is so upsetting.   

For me not because they are doing this but that that are doing this and trying to be accommodating after years of stepping all over the right of cigar smokers and merchants.

Only because it is a new target for revenue do they care. Governments are like crack addicts and money is their drug of choice.


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[teamrandr]

13 minutes ago, LLC said:

For me not because they are doing this but that that are doing this and trying to be accommodating after years of stepping all over the right of cigar smokers and merchants.

Only because it is a new target for revenue do they care. Governments are like crack addicts and money is their drug of choice.


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I understand now!  Great analogy as well.

[Hammer Smokin']

Well, I look at it differently, but i'm a cannabis smoker as well as cigar smoker.

this will show if there is actually a market for cigar lounges (by that I mean someone willing to take a business chance).

"IF" they legalize cannabis smoking indoors (at lounges, etc), they'll extend that to cigars.

However, is there a business person willing to try their luck opening up a cigar lounge?

Time will tell.

But this is a good thing. Creating allowances for smoking indoors will only benefit the cigar smoking community (as quiet as that group may be).

[Hammer Smokin']

also, cannabis is plain packaging, same as cigars.

i keep reading the OP but am having a hard time finding the hypocrisy.

appears they are opening cannabis consumption lounges....not smoking lounges. "IF" this opened a door for indoor smoking, I guarantee you a business owner could do the same for cigars....difference is, the market for cigar lounges isn't there (or at least appears it isn't).

only time will tell.

there are 100 cannabis smokers for every cigar smoker...and that might be off...likely 500 cannabis smokers for every cigar smoker.

It would be smart for the cigar industry (? is there such a thing) to hook up and attach to the cannabis "smoking" industry (although it appears the "smoking" of cannabis is seen in the same light as smoking of cigars).

The real reason for these lounges is to eat high end products with infused cannabis, not smoke it.

 

[Fuzz]

2 minutes ago, Hammer Smokin' said:

Well, I look at it differently, but i'm a cannabis smoker as well as cigar smoker.

this will show if there is actually a market for cigar lounges (by that I mean someone willing to take a business chance).

"IF" they legalize cannabis smoking indoors (at lounges, etc), they'll extend that to cigars.

However, is there a business person willing to try their luck opening up a cigar lounge?

Time will tell.

But this is a good thing. Creating allowances for smoking indoors will only benefit the cigar smoking community (as quiet as that group may be).

No offense, but what gives you any indication that they will ease restrictions on cigar smoking? Tobacco is the demon weed, whereas marijuana is seen as a miracle cure.

No politician with any survival skills will willing vote to ease tobacco restrictions.

[Puros Y Vino]

4 minutes ago, Hammer Smokin' said:

Well, I look at it differently, but i'm a cannabis smoker as well as cigar smoker.

this will show if there is actually a market for cigar lounges (by that I mean someone willing to take a business chance).

"IF" they legalize cannabis smoking indoors (at lounges, etc), they'll extend that to cigars.

However, is there a business person willing to try their luck opening up a cigar lounge?

Time will tell.

But this is a good thing. Creating allowances for smoking indoors will only benefit the cigar smoking community (as quiet as that group may be).

You're kind of right.  If this goes through, and indoor smoking is legalized (somewhat) then the case for an indoor cigar lounge could be make. Part of me is livid at this announcement. Another part of me sees an opportunity.  But I won;t hold up too much hope.  Our gov't consulted us on plain packaging and the word from the inside was that it was a done deal and no amount of public outcry was going to stop them from adopting it.  Gary is right.  This is the governments' new cash cow and their going to milk it hard.  They spent so much time trying to kill tobacco so they put the efforts into weed to replace it.  Cuz it's "medicine" right?    

[Hammer Smokin']

1 minute ago, Fuzz said:

No offense, but what gives you any indication that they will ease restrictions on cigar smoking? Tobacco is the demon weed, whereas marijuana is seen as a miracle cure.

No politician with any survival skills will willing vote to ease tobacco restrictions.

smoking is smoking.

I don't read that there is indication they will ease restrictions on indoor smoking of anything - hence the difficulty in finding the hypocrisy suggested in this thread.

I don't think they'll open cannabis lounges for smoking cannabis - but IF they do, that'll help with cigar lounges.

they WILL NOT try to legislate what gets smoked. It'll open the door for a cigar lounge.

But no owner is going to sink their investment in a cigar lounge in Canada....not enough smokers.

[BrightonCorgi]

Can you smoke cigars in pot lounges?  Been a super long time since I went to a coffeeshop, but you could smoke cigarettes while there.  Weed and a cigar is like a one stop destination...  Add a good wine list and a few local beers...  What else do you need?

[BrightonCorgi]

59 minutes ago, FatherOfPugs said:

You're right, tobacco is the demon weed, and I agree with you. Others can add colorful bullsh!t to try and make it sound like "oh this will pave the way for cigar lounges." I call BS, the stores closing that have their own threads on here would say otherwise as well.

There's no opportunity here for cigars. It's not as simple as smoking is smoking. I've never inhaled a huge drag off of a cigar. 2 completely different things entirely. 

Tobacco is political suicide in any 1st world nation for sure. 

[Puros Y Vino]

Hold on.  This needs some clarification.  Apparently, the lounges may not allow for the smoking of weed.  Only consumables/edibles.  I'll see what I can find an update it here.  

[ebhead]

10 minutes ago, bundwallah said:

Hold on.  This needs some clarification.  Apparently, the lounges may not allow for the smoking of weed.  Only consumables/edibles.  I'll see what I can find an update it here.  

Yes, this change would "only" be for drinks/food, not smoking. Considering this is Canada, the province would also need to ensure the set-up conforms to federal laws over and above he provincial ones as well. The example I read this morning highlighted the fact that you can't serve infused alcohol from a tap, but could sell the can to the customer to drink at a table.

Now, to be honest, since our current provincial government put the "fail" in incompetent I don't see this law taking effect anytime soon.

Also, the previous genius government also came up with the idea to allow cannabis smoking for medicinal purposes indoors before our laws changed, then quickly backtracking once they realized what they were about to do, I expect a classic F up and the decision to pull this idea sooner rather than later. 

This seems to have Diageo (or other other spirits oligarchies) all over it.

[Puros Y Vino]

I'm trying to wrap my head around the following in the proposal.

Post-Legalization Considerations: Multi-Unit Dwellings and Consumption Lounges/Venues

 Ontario’s precautionary approach to the consumption of recreational cannabis under the Cannabis Act, 2017 is intended to protect the health and well-being of all Ontarians, especially children, youth and other vulnerable populations, by limiting exposure to second-hand smoke and vapour and is consistent with the Ontario government’s safe and sensible approach to cannabis legalization.

 At the same time, Ontario has committed to closely monitoring the public health and safety outcomes of cannabis legalization to inform future consideration of potential adjustments to the provincial framework, if warranted. This includes proactively exploring the feasibility and implications of potential approaches that would provide more options for where people can consume cannabis without significantly increasing exposure to second-hand smoke and vapour. Currently, the Ministry is considering the following approaches:

 ·       Permitting licensed and regulated cannabis consumption lounges and venues; and

·       Permitting owners or operators of multi-unit dwellings to designate outdoor areas for the consumption of recreational cannabis.

 These approaches are under consideration and will require additional consultation.  Feedback on this proposal will be used to inform future policy development and consultations.     

----------------

So, what I'm reading is hinting at indoor smoking?  

Read more here.

[ebhead]

Found the longer article I read this morning (in the Globe & Mail):

Ontario is considering allowing cannabis consumption lounges as well as permits for consumption at festivals and events across the province. It is unlikely, however, that lounges would resemble Amsterdam’s famed cannabis cafés, given provincial legislation prohibiting smoking indoors.

The Ontario government began a public consultation process on Monday, using a survey to gather feedback on “cannabis consumption establishments” and “special occasion permits.” Currently, cannabis users in Ontario are allowed to consume in private residences and in most outdoor spaces, but not inside enclosed public spaces or commercial establishments, where smoking and vaping is prohibited by the Smoke-Free Ontario Act.

The government is not considering changes to the Smoke-Free Ontario Act, it said in a statement on Monday, suggesting that any cannabis lounges or cafés would be focused on serving cannabis-infused edibles, such as chocolates and drinks.

Edibles-only cafés would also have to navigate federal rules that only allow cannabis to be sold in approved packaging.

“You couldn’t put [infused drinks] on taps in restaurants because of federal regulations about the product having to be in the packaging at the point-of-sale," said Michael Wilson, a lawyer with Goodmans LLP and former chief of staff to Ontario Attorney-General Doug Downey.

"But in theory you could have a canned beverage or a bottled beverage served to a customer at a table and probably still comply with the federal rules,” Mr. Wilson said.

He added that the province will have to decide whether to allow alcohol and cannabis-infused products to be sold in the same establishment.

The consultation period, which ends March 10, is the latest attempt by the Ontario government to improve the business environment for province’s cannabis retailers and growers, many of whom are struggling to compete with the black market. The lack of retail outlets in Ontario – there are still fewer than 30 stores open – is commonly cited by cannabis producers to explain why their financial results have fallen short of expectations.

In December, Ontario scrapped the retail lottery system it used to award licences and moved to an open licensing model with no cap on the total number of stores allowed in the province.

"We’ve had a terrible month in terms of news in the cannabis industry, where we’ve seen layoffs from various different licensed producers. I think today’s announcement should be an economic shot in the arm for both licensed producers and retailers,” said Omar Khan, national cannabis sector lead for consulting firm Hill+Knowlton Strategies.

"There’s an enormous opportunity for licensed cannabis retailers to explore the possibility of also operating consumption lounges either next to their retail locations or very close nearby. I also think there’s a huge opportunity here for people who run, and have experience running and operating, cafés and bars,” Mr. Khan added.

[ebhead]

11 minutes ago, bundwallah said:

I' This includes proactively exploring the feasibility and implications of potential approaches that would provide more options for where people can consume cannabis without significantly increasing exposure to second-hand smoke and vapour. Currently, the Ministry is considering the following approaches:

 ·       Permitting licensed and regulated cannabis consumption lounges and venues; and

·       Permitting owners or operators of multi-unit dwellings to designate outdoor areas for the consumption of recreational cannabis.

 

It appears to...but remember, consultation. The anti-tobacco/smoking lobbies will be all over this to ensure it doesn't come to be.

Having said that, if the Gov't does give the go-ahead it does open up the door...through the courts, which pretty much means that by the time its decided we will be long gone.

[Puros Y Vino]

50 minutes ago, ebhead said:

It appears to...but remember, consultation. The anti-tobacco/smoking lobbies will be all over this to ensure it doesn't come to be.

Having said that, if the Gov't does give the go-ahead it does open up the door...through the courts, which pretty much means that by the time its decided we will be long gone.

True.  But we have to try. There's a Word doc in that link for feedback.  I suggest Ontario residents should fill it in and respond. Deadline is March 5.

IGNORE THE ABOVE! THIS IS AN OLD DOCUMENT.  

[Hammer Smokin']

I truly hope they allow "combustion" of cannabis at indoor facilities.

this will be a big step forward in the fight to allow smoking indoors.

but I'm not holding my breath.

I expect vaping and edibles/drinkables, etc only.

[El Presidente]

7 hours ago, Hammer Smokin' said:

hence the difficulty in finding the hypocrisy suggested in this thread.

What happened to "second hand smoke" ?

 

Just like that.....a non issue in the cannabis lounge world.