Romeo y Julieta Club Kings Arriving soon

[potpest]

Yes. Whether they are in the same league as the five I mentioned is a matter of debate, I suppose. Personally, I don't count any of the current Romeo y Julieta marevas-sized cigars in that league (i.e. Cedros de Luxe No.3, Mille Fleurs, Petit Coronas and Romeo No.2)

Phew was worried i'd missed a discontinuation there. I love the RYJ PC's, i'd rate them as on par with the Boli's. However this is based on me smoking through 1 box which has been phenomenal, maybe consistency is not good.

[papatrips]

Does anyone know if they will be available in Cuba. The Halfwheel article mentioned LCDHs and timing. To me they would be a good sell at Cuban airports also. 

[NSXCIGAR]

20 hours ago, JohnS said:

This release is a big deal because there are very few premium cigars made in this vitola anymore (42 ring gauge x 129 mm in length...the marevas size). Bolivar Petit Corona, Cohiba Siglo II, Montecristo No.4, Por Larranaga Petit Coronas and Rafael Gonzalez Petit Coronas. So what I'm interested in knowing is if the Romeo y Julieta Club Kings and Partagas Capitols are premium cigars or of the 'cheap and cheerful' variety, as @NSXCIGAR hinted to within this thread. I think we'll quickly find out.

I'm at a loss to imagine what RyJ could do with another Marevas. Assuming the PC is already their high-quality offering in this vitola what more can they do? Partagas, on the other hand has some room to maneuver here. They don't offer a Marevas and most of the small Party offerings simply don't use the best tobacco. I would love to see how a Shorts blend would do in a slightly longer format for example. That wouldn't be a waste of a new model. 

Either way, it's going to have to be better than all existing similarly-sized models to justify a Marevas at $10+.

[havanaclub]

I'm at a loss to imagine what RyJ could do with another Marevas. Assuming the PC is already their high-quality offering in this vitola what more can they do? Partagas, on the other hand has some room to maneuver here. They don't offer a Marevas and most of the small Party offerings simply don't use the best tobacco. I would love to see how a Shorts blend would do in a slightly longer format for example. That wouldn't be a waste of a new model. 
Either way, it's going to have to be better than all existing similarly-sized models to justify a Marevas at $10+.

Doesn’t Partagas have the mille fleur too? How does that stack up to other PCs or the shorts?


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[NSXCIGAR]

1 hour ago, havanaclub said:

Doesn’t Partagas have the mille fleur too? How does that stack up to other PCs or the shorts?

The Partagas Mille Fleurs are a Petit Coronas vitola, not a Marevas. 

As far as how they stack up, about the same as all the other small Party offerings--they can be good but as I've smoked all of them over the last 15 years they frequently trade places as to what's the best at any given time and I am convinced they simply don't use the premium tobacco that's found in the Shorts, for example. 

That said, they can be good values and a lover of the Partagas profile will enjoy them. I'm not in love with the modern raw Party profile and need a little quality in my Partagas these days. And this is coming from someone who smoked Mille Fleurs and Super Partagas pre-2000 in the cellophane days and couldn't get enough. The modern backbone of Partagas just doesn't do it for me. 

[havanaclub]

The Partagas Mille Fleurs are a Petit Coronas vitola, not a Marevas. 
As far as how they stack up, about the same as all the other small Party offerings--they can be good but as I've smoked all of them over the last 15 years they frequently trade places as to what's the best at any given time and I am convinced they simply don't use the premium tobacco that's found in the Shorts, for example. 
That said, they can be good values and a lover of the Partagas profile will enjoy them. I'm not in love with the modern raw Party profile and need a little quality in my Partagas these days. And this is coming from someone who smoked Mille Fleurs and Super Partagas pre-2000 in the cellophane days and couldn't get enough. The modern backbone of Partagas just doesn't do it for me. 

What’s the main difference between a marevas and a PC? 42 by 5 1/8. I believe the MF is same size and handmade according to cuban cigars website.


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[NSXCIGAR]

59 minutes ago, havanaclub said:

What’s the main difference between a marevas and a PC? 42 by 5 1/8. I believe the MF is same size and handmade according to cuban cigars website.

Good question. I actually hadn't noticed the Petit Coronas and Marevas are exactly identical in dimensions.

I'm assuming that CCW hasn't updated the vitola since the machine-made version was transitioned to hand-made. I would guess that tradition dictated that no machine-made cigar could be called a Marevas even with identical dimensions to one so the Petit Coronas vitola name was conceived for MM cigars with the 42 x 129 dimension. Same with the RyJ Mille Fleurs which was also a machine-made until 02 and is 42 x 129 and is listed as a Petit Coronas vitola and not a Marevas. 

Since both are now totally hand-made the vitola should be Marevas. Perhaps @ATGroom can shed some light on why they're still listed as Petit Coronas.

[NSXCIGAR]

On 2/10/2020 at 12:51 PM, SenorPerfecto said:

As a corona lover, this is great. Hopefully we'll see them cheap!

If only they were actual Coronas...it would certainly help the $10 price be justified.

[clickbangdoh]

Wait.....these are going to be almost $13 a piece??? So, in the Siglo II range? What the heck is the tin made of????

[ATGroom]

3 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

I'm assuming that CCW hasn't updated the vitola since the machine-made version was transitioned to hand-made. I would guess that tradition dictated that no machine-made cigar could be called a Marevas even with identical dimensions to one so the Petit Coronas vitola name was conceived for MM cigars with the 42 x 129 dimension. Same with the RyJ Mille Fleurs which was also a machine-made until 02 and is 42 x 129 and is listed as a Petit Coronas vitola and not a Marevas. 

Since both are now totally hand-made the vitola should be Marevas. Perhaps @ATGroom can shed some light on why they're still listed as Petit Coronas.

The short answer is that the then machine-made Mille Fleurs was listed in MRN in 2002 as Petit Coronas, Trev would have got it from there when CCW was first created in 2006, and neither he nor I have ever had any reason to revisit it.

The vitola numbers are the key here: prior to 1980 the factory name was truly the factory name, so the Romeo factory could well have a 42x129 they called one thing while the Partagas had a 42x129 they called something else. In 1980 the sizes were all standardised across factories and given individual codes. A 2-- number should be totally machine-made, a 7-- number machine-bunched hand finished, and a 4,5 or 6 number totally hand made. Two identically sized cigars would have different factory names and numbers if they were constructed differently. And if a cigar moved from machine-made to handmade it would move codes and also factory names.

MRN lists the Mille Fleurs as being available in Petit Coronas (vitola number 220 - machine-made) and Petit Coronas-mano (720 - machine bunched hand finished). He lists the Romeo Petit Coronas as a Marevas (421 - handmade).

Therefore, I agree that your theory is a sound one - the machine-made name for the size was Petit Coronas, and now it is handmade it should be changed to Marevas. As always, there is a wrinkle, however...

...in the catalogue on the Habanos website, which was created well after 2002, and as far as I know is based on HSA's own records and not MRN or CCW, they list the Mille Fleurs of both brands as a Petit Coronas, and the Romeo Petit Coronas as a Marevas. So either nobody ever bothered to change the vitola name and number in whatever card index Habanos uses to keep track of their catalogue when the cigars transitioned from machine-made to handmade... or when HSA stopped selling machine-mades they re-purposed the old Petit Coronas factory name for a handmade size with some technical difference to the Marevas.

[NSXCIGAR]

1 hour ago, ATGroom said:

MRN lists the Mille Fleurs as being available in Petit Coronas (vitola number 220 - machine-made) and Petit Coronas-mano (720 - machine bunched hand finished). He lists the Romeo Petit Coronas as a Marevas (421 - handmade).

Thanks Alex. 

MRN would obviously have used the 720/220 vitola since both were MM at the time of his writing and were 720/220. It seems 720 & 220 were specifically reserved for MM models with 42 x 129 dimensions. 

But, as you point out, the HSA site still lists them as 220 Petit Coronas which is questionable, however that would be the presiding authority unfortunately. My guess is they simply neglected to formally transition them from 220 to 421 even though it's almost certain there's no physical or technical difference to a 421. 

This also occurs with other vitolas that were MM and transitioned to HM like Partagas Aristocrats which were 719 and still are listed as 719 despite it being HM now. In fact there was no totally hand-made cigar ever in the catalogue with the 719 vitola, but now they list the Aristocrats as 719. 

[potpest]

Wait.....these are going to be almost $13 a piece??? So, in the Siglo II range? What the heck is the tin made of????

A Siglo 2 is around $20 in Switzerland in most places.

[ATGroom]

5 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

But, as you point out, the HSA site still lists them as 220 Petit Coronas which is questionable, however that would be the presiding authority unfortunately. My guess is they simply neglected to formally transition them from 220 to 421 even though it's almost certain there's no physical or technical difference to a 421. 

This also occurs with other vitolas that were MM and transitioned to HM like Partagas Aristocrats which were 719 and still are listed as 719 despite it being HM now. In fact there was no totally hand-made cigar ever in the catalogue with the 719 vitola, but now they list the Aristocrats as 719. 

Another interesting one is the Romeo No.1, 2 and 3... the No.2 is easy enough, that's listed as a Petit Coronas 220 so is now probably actually a 421 Marevas.

The Romeo No.1 is listed as a Cremas 208, but there is no 40 x 140 handmade equivalent of that size. Same with the No.3, Coronitas 207 40 x 117.

There were actually handmade versions of these cigars prior to 2002 in the Romeo de Luxe line, however as with most cigars that had both a machine and handmade version they were marginally different sizes (42x142 Coronas 504 for the No.1 and 40x116 Franciscanos 416 for the No.3). When the conversion to all handmade happened, they didn't discontinue the machine-made sizes; they discontinued the handmade and then started producing the machine-made sizes by hand.

I don't have a numbered vitola list later than 2002, so I don't know if they changed the numbers of the now handmade vitolas to reflect the change, but I think most likely that with the end of machine-made cigars the "2 means machine-made 4 means handmade" numbering system simply wasn't relevant anymore and broke down. And the side effect was that there are a few identically sized and produced but differently named vitolas on the books.

So I think Habanos is right, in that this is probably the name they call it at the factory. But the factory is wrong to call it that. It's all a bit Cuba being Cuba.

[Hammer Smokin']

12 hours ago, potpest said:

20 hours ago, clickbangdoh said:

Wait.....these are going to be almost $13 a piece??? So, in the Siglo II range? What the heck is the tin made of????

A Siglo 2 is around $20 in Switzerland in most places.

and $35 dollars in Canada.

Yankees have NO IDEA how well they have it!!!!

[clickbangdoh]

8 hours ago, Hammer Smokin' said:

and $35 dollars in Canada.

Yankees have NO IDEA how well they have it!!!!

Admittedly I'm going by online only sales cause, you know, I don't actually have access to local LCDH to drop in and pick up some. Retail is always going to be higher, but these just seem absurdly overpriced. Now, I could be wrong, they could be incredible and after the initial rush they may come down appreciably, but feels like HSA is trying to raise prices by quite a lot in a stealthy manner with these releases. Could just be me being cynical, but it wouldn't surprise me to see other PC-like sticks in that marca become constrained as they shift production to a nearly identical product that they are selling at a higher mark up. We expect regular price increases anyway, just feels like a drastic increase all in one go.

[NSXCIGAR]

2 hours ago, clickbangdoh said:

Admittedly I'm going by online only sales cause, you know, I don't actually have access to local LCDH to drop in and pick up some. Retail is always going to be higher, but these just seem absurdly overpriced. Now, I could be wrong, they could be incredible and after the initial rush they may come down appreciably, but feels like HSA is trying to raise prices by quite a lot in a stealthy manner with these releases. Could just be me being cynical, but it wouldn't surprise me to see other PC-like sticks in that marca become constrained as they shift production to a nearly identical product that they are selling at a higher mark up. We expect regular price increases anyway, just feels like a drastic increase all in one go.

I think these are just geared to Duty Frees. We also don't know how these tins are going to be packaged (5 x 5, 3 x 5, etc.) and since only the price for the 5s have been announced I'm not sure they have box-type buyers in mind. 

Same as the Seleccion series which is ostensibly geared for gifting and Duty Frees, they charge $15 each for 6 Robustos, 5 of which are standard production models and one is a Monte Open Master which they should pay us to take. 

HSA raises prices on a fairly regular basis. They've never been shy about it. Like the Seleccion lines, I just think this Linea Retro is a gouge to travelers, recreational smokers or gifters. And I'll believe they are using top quality tobacco in them when I see it. I'm not worried they'll be cannibalizing regular production for these. 

[Nico]

Admittedly I'm going by online only sales cause, you know, I don't actually have access to local LCDH to drop in and pick up some. Retail is always going to be higher, but these just seem absurdly overpriced. Now, I could be wrong, they could be incredible and after the initial rush they may come down appreciably, but feels like HSA is trying to raise prices by quite a lot in a stealthy manner with these releases. Could just be me being cynical, but it wouldn't surprise me to see other PC-like sticks in that marca become constrained as they shift production to a nearly identical product that they are selling at a higher mark up. We expect regular price increases anyway, just feels like a drastic increase all in one go.

Haven’t the prices always been (to) high when new production is released? Eventually they drop it to a more reasonable price tag. I remember people complaining about short de punch and cohiba medio siglo too when they first came. SdP was like $14 and The medio siglo price was above the CoRo when they first came out if I remember correctly.

[Nico]

Okay, last update.

It has arrived here in sweden. One retailer have box, code RAT DIC 19. Single price is 106 Swedish kronor which is around 10 USD. We’re not Canada but we do have high tobacco taxes so I’m pleased with the price. For comparison the PC is 85 kronor (8,5 USD).

[Lotusguy]

I think these are just geared to Duty Frees. We also don't know how these tins are going to be packaged (5 x 5, 3 x 5, etc.) and since only the price for the 5s have been announced I'm not sure they have box-type buyers in mind. 

Same as the Seleccion series which is ostensibly geared for gifting and Duty Frees, they charge $15 each for 6 Robustos, 5 of which are standard production models and one is a Monte Open Master which they should pay us to take. 

HSA raises prices on a fairly regular basis. They've never been shy about it. Like the Seleccion lines, I just think this Linea Retro is a gouge to travelers, recreational smokers or gifters. And I'll believe they are using top quality tobacco in them when I see it. I'm not worried they'll be cannibalizing regular production for these. 

They come in boxes of 10x5er tins

[NSXCIGAR]

5 hours ago, Lotusguy said:

They come in boxes of 10x5er tins

Yes, saw that posted in another thread. 

I hope they don't plan on selling the 10x5s at $650...

[TheCigarslayer]

I’m in for these mostly to grab the tin of reuse. Been using a HUHC tin for Monte MC and HUHC for a bit now. 

[alloy]

11 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

Yes, saw that posted in another thread. 

I hope they don't plan on selling the 10x5s at $650...

I received an ad from an European vendor. 10X5s for 490 euro. No thanks.