Impact of the new Coronavirus where you are?

[Fuzz]

Just now, SigmundChurchill said:

The COVID-19 symptoms we see most often are dry cough and fever.  Sore throat is common too.  Not a whole lot of sneezing though.

That's the thing. I have a tightness in the chest, a wheezing cough, running a bit of a temperature, but no sore throat (a bit of phlegm), no loss of smell/taste, a bit of a runny nose.

I don't qualify for testing here as I have not traveled overseas recently, or come into contact with anyone I know who has recently returned, I am not in aged or health care, and I don't know anyone who has been diagnosed as having coronavirus.

[SigmundChurchill]

23 minutes ago, Fuzz said:

That's the thing. I have a tightness in the chest, a wheezing cough, running a bit of a temperature, but no sore throat (a bit of phlegm), no loss of smell/taste, a bit of a runny nose.

I don't qualify for testing here as I have not traveled overseas recently, or come into contact with anyone I know who has recently returned, I am not in aged or health care, and I don't know anyone who has been diagnosed as having coronavirus.

You should get tested for the flu then.  We are finding very few people have both at the same time, so if you have the flu, it is very unlikely you have coronavirus.

[Fuzz]

13 minutes ago, SigmundChurchill said:

You should get tested for the flu then.  We are finding very few people have both at the same time, so if you have the flu, it is very unlikely you have coronavirus.

Thanks. Testing for the flu over here is as strict as testing for Covid-19. They will only test if you meet certain criteria.

[Meklown]

On 3/29/2020 at 1:00 PM, Ken Gargett said:

i suspect that there were very very few people, experts or not, calling for an immediate and full lockdown day one

I recently realised that the lockdown in Wuhan started when there were around 500 reported cases, somewhere around 3 weeks into the start of the infection. I guess almost everyone here can agree that is a draconian measure, and when China wants to be draconian, they get draconian. Whatever we think about the number of reported cases in China (then, and now), I think that we can also agree that it was pretty quick/decisive action from the top. I am sure that this action lead to lives saved - how many, I don't know, and don't care. Industries in China are being ordered to return to normal now (PMI is back in expansion territory).

Take care everyone, there will be an end to this, no matter whether you see it now or not.

[Ken Gargett]

10 hours ago, nino said:

 

because billionaires never lie?

seriously, if i had a dollar for every "absolutely true and here is the compelling evidence" theory i have heard, i could afford to smoke good cigars for a change (my fave, which the person sending it to me, insists is absolutely true - and this person normally not a fruitbat but actually would be the leading practitioner in their area in australia and yes, it is not medicine - would have me kicked off the forum so fast by both sides. i would have said you could not make it up, but apparently you can). 

mind you, i am in the camp that doubts we have reliable figures out of china. 

[CigSid]

We have some very good friends in China confirming that the death toll in Wuhan is way above 45000, and that it started in November of 2019... It is still very bad in parts of China, but we will never know how bad.... They say they definitely lied and covered up this virus, and no doubt facilitated many “avoidable” deaths around the world. 

[Meklown]

15 minutes ago, CigSid said:

We have some very good friends in China confirming that the death toll in Wuhan is way above 45000, and that it started in November of 2019... It is still very bad in parts of China, but we will never know how bad.... They say they definitely lied and covered up this virus, and no doubt facilitated many “avoidable” deaths around the world. 

If the test figures say one thing and I announce another, I am lying. If I restrict the number of tests and announce to the world that I'm not testing fully, I am not lying. Both are, in my honest opinion, wrong. 

If there were solid evidence of the virus starting earlier, I believe some foreign governments/WHO would have pointed it out by now. Then again, I am not sure if the exact cause can be determined (to a single point of origin). 

I feel that many foreign governments took too long to respond - doesn't matter whether China lied or not, other countries had more than a month from when Wuhan locked down before it hit any other country seriously. No quarantines on arrival, no increase in production of medical equipment. 

While not absolving others of their faults, I feel that we are always too quick to blame others before looking at ourselves. 

[Deeg]

19 minutes ago, Meklown said:

If the test figures say one thing and I announce another, I am lying. If I restrict the number of tests and announce to the world that I'm not testing fully, I am not lying. Both are, in my honest opinion, wrong. 

If there were solid evidence of the virus starting earlier, I believe some foreign governments/WHO would have pointed it out by now. Then again, I am not sure if the exact cause can be determined (to a single point of origin). 

I feel that many foreign governments took too long to respond - doesn't matter whether China lied or not, other countries had more than a month from when Wuhan locked down before it hit any other country seriously. No quarantines on arrival, no increase in production of medical equipment. 

While not absolving others of their faults, I feel that we are always too quick to blame others before looking at ourselves. 

Bingo.

Some countries did, in fact, take advantage of that time (as the WHO was urging everyone to do).  Not many, but a few.  And they're reaping the benefits of it now.  They'll have their flare-ups too, but they're going to be much better-positioned to weather the storm.

[CigSid]

1 hour ago, Meklown said:

If the test figures say one thing and I announce another, I am lying. If I restrict the number of tests and announce to the world that I'm not testing fully, I am not lying. Both are, in my honest opinion, wrong. 

If there were solid evidence of the virus starting earlier, I believe some foreign governments/WHO would have pointed it out by now. Then again, I am not sure if the exact cause can be determined (to a single point of origin). 

I feel that many foreign governments took too long to respond - doesn't matter whether China lied or not, other countries had more than a month from when Wuhan locked down before it hit any other country seriously. No quarantines on arrival, no increase in production of medical equipment. 

While not absolving others of their faults, I feel that we are always too quick to blame others before looking at ourselves. 

You want solid evidence? Here you go:

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-patients-zero-contracted-case-november-2020-3

Its also common knowledge that the director of the WHO “may” not have his position if it was not for China. (A simple internet search gives overwhelming evidence) Here is just one:

https://www.dailysignal.com/2020/03/23/top-who-official-won-election-with-chinas-help-now-hes-running-interference-for-china-on-coronavirus/

I also agree with your comment about many foreign governments took too long to respond.

Again, I am just relating information that was given to me by credible sources in China (2 doctors and 3 other health care workers), which can also be backed up by recent facts being uncovered...

 

[Riverstyx]

12 hours ago, Fuzz said:

Okay, well I'm kinda annoyed. I've picked up a virus, pretty sure it isn't Covid-19 as my symptoms are somewhat different, but a cold or flu virus nonetheless.

Bad time to pick up a virus (well, there never really is a good time), but with Covid-19 flying around, you're never sure if it is or isn't.

 

Do you have any idea how you got it?  Have you been isolated the last couple of weeks?  
 

[Nino]

9 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

because billionaires never lie?

seriously, if i had a dollar for every "absolutely true and here is the compelling evidence" theory i have heard, i could afford to smoke good cigars for a change (my fave, which the person sending it to me, insists is absolutely true - and this person normally not a fruitbat but actually would be the leading practitioner in their area in australia and yes, it is not medicine - would have me kicked off the forum so fast by both sides. i would have said you could not make it up, but apparently you can). 

mind you, i am in the camp that doubts we have reliable figures out of china. 

@Ken Gargett I am sure billionaires do lie like anyone else.

But I am sure this guy has better insight on Chinese affairs than most of us do.

I asked a good and serious friend there for his opinion and this is what he wrote back :

That guy is Guo Wengui, exiled billionaire from PRC.

He has kind of high-end insider information FOR YEARS.

Lots of events he exposed or predicted before, truly happened... he knows something.

Truly hope the western world know wtf is really going on and see through the propaganda and responds quickly.

[Yellot00tr]

1320748313799.pdf

[Diabolicalpherpher]

21 hours ago, alloy said:

This Chinese billionaire may not be around very long. Good luck to him.

True, but you also don’t get to be a billionaire in China and not know the Communist party insiders.  
 

Edit: well if he’s exiled he’s should be safer

[benfica_77]

Part 1: My COVID-19 update, April 1st  By David A Sinclair  This newsletter was split into two parts so as not to get cut off in email browsers. Expect part two to come out tomorrow where I explain why we should be more concerned about the virus mutating and provide novel tips on how to thrive during the pandemic, both physically and mentally. It’s April 1st, 2020. If only the headlines were a joke. Our nation’s leaders will soon be faced with a difficult choice. Hunker down for another four months and wreck the economy or let people out in two months and kill an additional hundred thousand people. Professor Samir Bhatt, Senior Lecturer at the Imperial College of London, and his colleagues calculate that, globally, up to 43 million people have been infected with SARS-CoV-2. They predict that if we’d gone about our normal lives, COVID-19 would have caused 7 billion infections and 40 million deaths this year. Shielding only the elderly may have halved the number of deaths, a strategy the UK initially entertained, but health systems would have been overwhelmed, so that tactic was largely abandoned. Based on the advice of professional epidemiologists, most nations have adopted a stretch-it-out and hope it doesn’t return strategy. It seems to be working so far. Rates of new cases are declining in Europe and the US. If the current suppression strategies are sustained, then 38.7 million lives globally will be saved this year, the epidemiologists at the Imperial College calculate.  But epidemiologists aren’t economists. We can not stay home for the rest of the year - the economic impact would be too high. We are three weeks into the shutdown and already factories are ceasing production, brick-and-mortar retail stores and restaurants are closed, unemployment spikes are unprecedented, commodity prices have plunged, and a wave of loan defaults is expected. A colleague on a global pandemic response panel tells me the panel’s best estimate is that the US economy will rebound rapidly, but only if the nation returns to work in 60 days. After that, it’s anyone’s guess. No one, not even the experts, are willing to estimate the full economic impact of COVID-19. It will depend on how long it takes to get back to work and how many times we will be sent back home.  When can we go back to work and school? Will the infections spike again? Will normal life ever return? Two weeks ago, I predicted that we probably won’t be allowed out of our homes until late-June, and possibly July. This went against mainstream predictions and shocked a lot of people who were expecting this all to be over mid-April. Yesterday, the state of Virginia announced a stay-at-home order until June 10th. Other states will follow the lead. That means kids won’t be going back to school this semester and it puts us over the 60-day economic cliff. When epidemiologists extend their models beyond summer, the predictions are bleak. No matter what we do, the total number of COVID-19 cases and deaths don’t change appreciably over the next 18 months because the virus will come back, as it may be in China. In fact, delaying the spread could make it worse if the peak is pushed off until next winter when the virus can spread more easily (see the figure below). Modeling of the UK outbreak suggests that social distancing measures might be needed for large parts of the next two years including school and university closures. Let’s hope not. The impact of temporary suppression on infection incidence in a representative lower-income setting. In this example, suppression is maintained for 3 months but is then stopped and contact patterns are assumed to return to previous levels.  Imperial College COVID-19 Response Team, Patrick GT, et al. 26th March 2020 Unless drugs are found to lower fatality rates, more than 200,000 people will die in the US, even with the current strategy of stay-at-home for 4 to 5 months. If we can hold the rate of infection at levels that our hospitals can manage for the next 18 months, by keeping our distance from each other and staying at home if there’s a resurgence, we should be able to buy time until a vaccine can abruptly put an end to the pandemic.  It’s not all bad news: There are 57 drug and 39 vaccine trials underway. In the past two days, the number of new COVID-19 cases in US states have finally started to slow.  The number of people moving around is down ~80% according to wrist biotracker and vehicle GPS data.  The number of people with fevers has declined below seasonal levels, according to Bluetooth thermometer company Kinsa.  The FDA approved the use of both hydroxy-chloroquine and plasma from recovered patients.  Incredibly, the overall death rate has also dropped below normal, for reasons we can only speculate. Stress tests on the banks show much greater health than in 2008.  Scientists, journalists, programmers, and governments have created a valuable (but sometimes overwhelming) body of work to inform us where we currently stand. Source: New York Times Addressing misinformation I want to commend scientists who have played an important role in disseminating truthful and science-based information. Notables include Drs. Anthony Fauci, Peter Attia, Peter Hotez, Rhonda Patrick, and Trevor Bradford. Startup entrepreneur Tomas Pueyo collated an enormous amount of information in this article, which received high praise by academics and I was impressed by the clarity of the article by Ed Yong at The Atlantic about how the pandemic might play out. AP Fact Checker, Snopes, STAT News, The Wall Street Journal, and The New York Times are working overtime to check claims.   For every one of these exemplars of accuracy, there are many others spreading misinformation. Perhaps the worst was the Internet meme that spread across the globe in multiple languages this week, which began, “Great news!! A coronavirus vaccine is ready. Able to heal the patient within 3 hours." These memes, produced by idle or nefarious hands, would be amusing if not for the vast number of people who believe them. (Note: Vaccines don’t cure diseases, period). This coronavirus almost certainly came from a bat, probably horseshoe bat. Not from a scuffle with a CIA agent at a Wuhan bioweapon lab. Not from a snake. Not from some exotic animal soup, the temperature of which would have killed the virus. And I’m not going to waste time explaining why 5G networks were not involved.  In the scientific community, the website Pubmed.org is the go-to search engine for peer-reviewed papers. Pre-print websites like bioRxiv.org and medRxiv.org that publish work before peer-review are godsends. Journals like Nature, Cell, Science, The Journal of Virology, and the New England Journal of Medicine remain the standard for scientific rigor. Many journals are making their COVID-19 papers open access, so anyone can read them. What should leaders do now? Besides the seemingly obvious things, like establishing national warehouses of pandemic supplies and practising the gold standard 3T responses, test, track, and treat, here’s what we should do as a nation:  Make it illegal for non-essential workers to congregate or travel for the next 45 days. By then we should see if hospitals are coping and some medicines are helping. Recommend that people cover their faces in public with a cloth or mask, even if it only stops them touching their faces and keeps nasal humidity high.  Set up a global repository of clinical data that collates bloodwork, autopsy data, e.g. utilizing Georgetown University’s COVID-19 AI open dataset (CORD). Determine the genomes of patients (alive and dead) to know if there is a genetic component that predicts severity. There are 12 known variants in the ACE2 gene alone (I explain this more in part two). Encourage citizens to improve their health. Move, eat less often, avoid processed carbs, and quit smoking. Immediately.   And going forward:  Establish a US Bioforce, alongside the Airforce, Army, Navy, Spaceforce and National Guard. The virus has killed more people than the Afghanistan war and will do more economic damage. Set up a global and centralized system to track viruses in wild animals, viruses in people, and body temperatures. One of the companies I founded seven years ago, called Arc-Bio, is developing such a system and is already manufacturing viral detection kits. I look forward to hearing your suggestions for what we should do. You can email them to me at [email protected] Thank you to everyone who already emailed or messaged my team with questions and ideas. We couldn’t respond to everyone, but we did read them all and have put together some answers. After reading hundreds of scientific papers and listening to a network of experts, first, let me dispel some more rumors. Recently, Belarus President Alexander Lukashenko called coronavirus a "psychosis" that can be fought with vodka, saunas and driving tractors.  The true origin story It is debated whether the virus passed through a population of scaly, ant-eating pangolins on its way to humans, which were also traded until China banned the exotic animal trade in February. One of the genes looks like a pangolin coronavirus, but the similarity could just be coincidental. Knowing how the virus came to infect humans is important if we are to prevent the next pandemic. As Francis Collins, Director of the NIH noted in his recent article in Nature, it was certainly a single human infection that led to the pandemic. If the virus leaped into more than one human, the researchers would expect a greater number of mutations.  The fact that it came from Asian bats is no surprise to scientists, least of all to Peter Daszak from the EcoHealth Alliance, who has collected and studied coronaviruses for more than a decade. In 2010, I was in the audience watching his riveting TEDMED talk. Pointing to a picture of a horseshoe bat he said, “We showed they are the main reservoir of SARS. And people eat bats all over Asia.”  Peter then showed a world map he had colored to show the viral hotspots his team identified, based on the prevalence of environmental disturbances and human-animal contact.  “This is a predictive map of where the next HIV or SARS will emerge,” he said. The map showed a large, red hotspot over Hubei province, China. Peter Daszak, TEDMED talk, 2010, San Diego. “This map shows where the next HIV or SARS will emerge.” “My colleagues say you can’t predict where the next outbreak will occur,” he said. But Peter was spot on. Bats have hundreds of different viruses in them including hantavirus, Ebola, and SARS. Seven out of the fifteen known viral species have only been found in bats, which seem to tolerate infections because the bat immune system doesn’t overreact (see graphs below). Knowing the customs of the region and the biology of coronaviruses, it is possible to reconstruct how the first human became infected. Deep in the wilderness of China's Yunnan province, a horseshoe bat coronavirus replicated and made a copying error. It was passed on to a relative, where it made another error, and another.  Then early in November 2019, one of these animals either bit a person, breathed, or bled on them. It could have been a butcher at a wet market in Wuhan. It could even have been someone from the Wuhan Institute of Virology, who have been studying wild bats carrying hundreds of SARS-related viruses, including one almost identical to the SARS-CoV-2 only an hour’s drive south-west of Wuhan. It's believed a bats' ability to keep their inflammatory response down is one of the reasons they are able to harbor many types of viruses. Most coronavirus-related deaths in humans are due to the immune system response in the body going haywire in its response, not damage caused by the virus itself. Source: Nature In one sense, coronaviruses are formidable foes. They have some of the largest and most complex genomes of all viruses, having perfected themselves, by some estimates, over the past 290 million years.  On the other hand, they have an Achilles’ heel: a fragile membrane that is easily destroyed by soap, alcohol, heat, and antimicrobials on our skin. Visualize coronaviruses not like tiny cannonballs but more like fragile balloons that can easily pop (see schematic below).  Coronaviruses need to get inside cells before their membrane disintegrates, and they use two cunning methods. One way, called endocytosis, is to trick the cell into making a concave pocket in its membrane that takes the virus inside, similar to a Trojan horse. This is also how flu viruses get in. This illustration, created by the New Scientist, shows the virus' spiky, crown-like fringe that shrouds each viral particle—giving it a “coronated” appearance.  The other way is to use a lock and key, a process called membrane fusion. The virus binds tightly with a specific cell surface protein, like a key in a lock, which allows it to blend its own membrane with the victim’s cell’s membrane, like two bubbles merging. This is also how HIV and herpes get in. Coronaviruses use both these methods, making viral entry particularly difficult to block, but there are ways. The key to their entry is the spike protein that decorates the surface of the virus, like a clove pushed in an orange (see diagram below). The spike protein will bounce off all other proteins in the body, except for the angiotensin-converting enzyme (ACE2). ACE2 is the lock that the spike fits into. It is made by cells in the kidney, spleen, heart and blood vessels, but it is by far the most abundant in intestines and the lung. There’s a lot of discussion about the risk of taking common drugs that control blood pressure by modulating ACE enzymes. We have two ACE enzymes, ACE1 and ACE2, with opposing functions. Blood pressure medicines, such as enalapril and ramipril, block ACE1, but this can raise the levels of ACE2, potentially making COVID-19 worse. For now, The American College of Cardiology suggests patients keep taking their ACE inhibitors but be extra careful not to come in contact with potentially infectious people. This illustration was created by Cognition Studio Coronaviruses are highly unstable, genetically speaking. One of the main reasons is their genome is not made of DNA but of RNA, a very ancient, primitive genetic material. RNA is typically a single-stranded molecule, whereas DNA is made of two separate strands, like a zipper, with one side heading in the opposite direction in a helix shape. The fingers that can lock the zipper together are called “bases,” and their sequence is the genetic code that tells a cell how to make proteins or more RNA. If a mistake is made while copying our genetic material, DNA, it can be corrected because there is another strand that can be used as a template to correct errors. But if an RNA virus makes a copying error, it is locked in forever. And those changes accumulate over time. There have been stories claiming coronavirus isn't changing rapidly. It is.  In part two I will continue to explain why we should be more concerned about the virus mutating and provide novel tips on how to thrive during the pandemic, both physically and mentally. Expect an email update tomorrow.

[Meklown]

10 hours ago, nino said:

@Ken Gargett I am sure billionaires do lie like anyone else.

But I am sure this guy has better insight on Chinese affairs than most of us do.

I asked a good and serious friend there for his opinion and this is what he wrote back :

That guy is Guo Wengui, exiled billionaire from PRC.

 

He has kind of high-end insider information FOR YEARS.

 

Lots of events he exposed or predicted before, truly happened... he knows something.

 

Truly hope the western world know wtf is really going on and see through the propaganda and responds quickly.

 

Not sure about the credibility of the guy, but the maths simply don't make sense to me. 400k incinerators? 12m deaths a day? 360m deaths within a month? Even a population the size of China will feel that impact! 

15 hours ago, CigSid said:

You want solid evidence? Here you go:

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-patients-zero-contracted-case-november-2020-3

Its also common knowledge that the director of the WHO “may” not have his position if it was not for China. (A simple internet search gives overwhelming evidence) Here is just one:

https://www.dailysignal.com/2020/03/23/top-who-official-won-election-with-chinas-help-now-hes-running-interference-for-china-on-coronavirus/

I also agree with your comment about many foreign governments took too long to respond.

Again, I am just relating information that was given to me by credible sources in China (2 doctors and 3 other health care workers), which can also be backed up by recent facts being uncovered...

 

Thanks for the business insider article, but within 1 article it states several different research teams and several different dates (with no confirmation that Nov was definitely the earliest date). I agree that Dec 31 wouldn't be the first case but I think this article isn't able to tell the full story. 

Whereas for the Daily Signal, forgive me as this is the first time I am visiting this website - looks very much like Western propaganda against China (with dubious references within their article). This is not to say China was perfect. They made plenty of mistakes and lied about it. But I think it would be beneficial if we avoid the politically charged agendas (both Western and Chinese) and instead focus on the real issues at hand together. 

 

Now for my own speculation - please don't quote me on anything below

I noticed a lot of comments saying the Chinese government covered the early cases up/silenced doctors etc. It's important to understand China's governing system before jumping to conclusions. To put it simply, like any other big country, there are local governors managing on behalf of the Central government. Now, a lot of speculation says that covid19 originated from wild animals. Sales of wild animals are (officially) banned in China, but not enforced properly. If, as a local governor, I found out a virus was spreading due to my lack of enforcement of sale of wild animals, I guess I would try to cover it up as much as possible? Not fearing the actual virus (because I don't know the full dangers of the virus), but fearing for my own life/job etc. Of course, when the central government caught wind, they came in and announced to the WHO, etc. It would be important in this case to differentiate the roles and actors in this scenario, and the conflicting agendas and fears. It is too easy and dangerous to generalise "Chinese government". 

Again, speculation on my part, as I don't know what really happened! 

[El Presidente]

To be fair, like most governments, you wouldn't trust the chinese government (any level) as far as you could throw them. If anything....possibly less .......and that is saying something 

[El Presidente]

I am looking forward to the world getting past the worst of its current dilemmas and turning its attention to the role of the WHO

They are going to be beaten like a pinata.

 

"From criticising travel bans and repeating China's claims in mid-January that the virus cannot be transmitted between humans, to blindly accepting the regime's likely fake statistics, the WHO and Dr Tedros have consistently toed the line of the Communist regime

The WHO declined to classify the new coronavirus a pandemic until March 11, when there were already more than 120,000 confirmed cases throughout 114 countries and nearly 4400 deaths."

[CaptainQuintero]

4 hours ago, El Presidente said:

I am looking forward to the world getting past the worst of its current dilemmas and turning its attention to the role of the WHO

They are going to be beaten like a pinata.

 

"From criticising travel bans and repeating China's claims in mid-January that the virus cannot be transmitted between humans, to blindly accepting the regime's likely fake statistics, the WHO and Dr Tedros have consistently toed the line of the Communist regime

The WHO declined to classify the new coronavirus a pandemic until March 11, when there were already more than 120,000 confirmed cases throughout 114 countries and nearly 4400 deaths."

  I think the last few years have really shown the end of the international bodies. We always joked about the UN etc but look back even not long ago when Kofi Annan was at the head; there was still a singular voice that did seem to cut through whatever major issue arose. Most countries ignored it or paid lip service but it was still there. Now? I couldn't even name the new secretary general and I like to keep abreast of these things. I don't even recall anything from the UN on Corona.

  The WTO has shown that it's deeply undermined to the core and can be influenced right up to the very top by any nation with the will/ability to do so.

  Both organisations have gone down the League of Nations road. It was a commonly used insult a decade ago about them, maybe self fulfilling prophecy.

  There's been a growing vacuum on the international stage for a long time now, it was only a matter of time until more sinister elements crept in. 

  It has a glossy veneer but the international stage is just gang culture, the biggest gang sets the rules. At the moment no one knows who is the big dog and it's showing in an walks of life

  That was a lot more than I was planning to tap out over some toast 

[SigmundChurchill]

Not sure if anyone mentioned this yet, but in yesterday’s Bloomberg, there was an article saying that classified intelligence reports say that the Chinese did in fact, cover up the actual number of cases as well as the actual number of deaths.

[nKostyan]

Russia went the way of China. Only life support services have been working for a last week, and everyone else is staying at home. Today, Vladimir Putin announced the extension of the holidays until the end of April.

I am very glad that three years ago I built a country house, where I am now isolated with my family, in an apartment it would be unbearable...

[ElJavi76]

7 hours ago, El Presidente said:

I am looking forward to the world getting past the worst of its current dilemmas and turning its attention to the role of the WHO

They are going to be beaten like a pinata.

 

"From criticising travel bans and repeating China's claims in mid-January that the virus cannot be transmitted between humans, to blindly accepting the regime's likely fake statistics, the WHO and Dr Tedros have consistently toed the line of the Communist regime

The WHO declined to classify the new coronavirus a pandemic until March 11, when there were already more than 120,000 confirmed cases throughout 114 countries and nearly 4400 deaths."

Not to mention their bias against Taiwan for example, because maybe just maybe China don't likey Taiwan so much. W.H.O. assistant director Bruce Aylward gave an interview to Hong Kong media... The reporter asked him about the struggles in Taiwan. First he pretends he didn't hear. Then she asks again. He says I didn't hear you but let's move onto another question. (Why another question if you didn't hear what she just said.) He hangs up the Skype call. They dial him back and when she asks about Taiwan yet again he cuts the interview short, and replies we already spoke about China. 

Lots of policy makers, governors, and mayors forget there's this thing called the internet. People have nothing but time on their hands and you can find all of them saying this was nothing back in Feb and March. Including the WHO telling the world this wasn't transmitted human to human. That's not propaganda... It's on WHO Twitter feed dated January 14th 2020 @ 7:18 am Eastern. 

IMHO the World Health Organization should look after the World's health a little harder. 

[99call]

There seems to be a lot of finger pointing going on.  

Im from the UK, and I'm more than happy to accept all the terrible failures of my government, and the things they've gotten right.  But apart from Taiwan and South Korea, I think the majority of us should not be concerned what other countries got wrong........but rather how our own countries could improve.   

We need to learn from this, and yes there is definitely a case for massive failures from China......but it's pretty pathetic that some countries are criticising China for delay and deception, when they in turn do exactly the same thing. 

 

[JamesKPolkEsq]

US deaths over 1,000 per day

A shocking worldwide leadership failure. Both national and international officials have made highly questionable decisions, and must be held accountable. 

Each country has a role in the failure. 

We're well beyond the looking glass. 

 

[99call]

16 minutes ago, JamesKPolkEsq said:

Each country has a role in the failure.

Yes, 

We are so focused on moving forward at an exponential rate,   and understandably it comes as quite an unfamiliar and uncomfortable feeling to hit reverse,  but like a crap bit of Bruce Lee Haiku. "Sometimes backwards, is forwards"

This modern.... previously accepted ethos of "just in time" product delivery, and businesses operating on the knife edge of growth and decline,  I hope that in the post-corona19 landscape, that it's seen as an unsustainable and dangerous way of doing business.     Very hard to prepare for such a thing, but doing nothing is not acceptable.       It has happened in the past, it is happening now, and it will happen in the future. 

[bpm32]

51 minutes ago, 99call said:

There seems to be a lot of finger pointing going on.  

Im from the UK, and I'm more than happy to accept all the terrible failures of my government, and the things they've gotten right.  But apart from Taiwan and South Korea, I think the majority of us should not be concerned what other countries got wrong........but rather how our own countries could improve.   

We need to learn from this, and yes there is definitely a case for massive failures from China......but it's pretty pathetic that some countries are criticising China for delay and deception, when they in turn do exactly the same thing. 

 

I tend to think that the delays in the west were due to denial and normalcy bias rather than any bad motives. What happened with China and how they manipulated the WHO is a different matter entirely.