Purchasing advice

[RazorbackFan]

Buyers set the market price, not sellers. If nobody’s paying, nobody’s selling. Viva la free market. 

[garbandz]

Flipping children............gone too far............

[dobbs]

21 hours ago, The Squiggler said:

It's a matter of honor.  I think the issue is an expectation is that members of the cigar community should at least try to be fair to one another, not a fundamental state of denial regarding the capitalist system.  Idealistic?  Probably, but I think we create our own universe, and if we strive to hold ourselves to certain standards we can simultaneously imagine that others out there will as well.  These little subcultures are the last vestige of brotherhood in a me-first world.

the squiggler hit the nail on the head here. i don't think it (flipping/profits/etc.) should be regulated, and the whiners could tone it down a bit (okay, a lot sometimes), but really this world is defined not by theory (or feelings), but by our actual interactions. FOH is an amazing community where i think the spirit of what squiggler is talking about is a reality. the actual interactions here are largely respectful and positive, and the FOH community stands as a testament to the concept that these pockets of civility and brotherhood can exist.

so i say thank you, not only to the FOH team who deserve it, but also to the members who keep this place nice.

that said, i don't care that flippers exist, don't have purchasing advice, and apologize for taking this thread further off-course.

-dobbs

[Puros Y Vino]

While not a fan of flipping I must admit I've bought a few boxes this way.  It does serve a purpose. Some people, can't/won't make their way to Cuba and get their own.   I'm more used to guys coming together to do group buys vs trying to profiteer off their fellow smokers.  Everyone pays the retailer price and does their split. I organized a few splits years back. I must have had 20+ LESF pass through my hands, which in hindsight I should have kept.    There's so much Cuba travel by people, multiple times during the year and they've turned it into a business. I admit it did grind my gears for a while but then I'd see how many buyers were happy and thankful that this venue existed. If they're happy with their purchase why should I be mad? And so, I no longer look down on it. With one exception. If the person doing the flipping doesnt smoke cigars.  

[Mikeltee]

On 1/23/2020 at 5:55 PM, El Presidente said:

What we need is regulation. 

Just because it's legal, doesn't make it right!! We need specific laws determining what people can and cannot do. We need specific laws on pricing that determine maximum profit margins. 

It is not good enough that people can just ignore the offerings. People are too stupid. We need to protect the people. 

We haven't even mentioned the children. WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN!!!!

Regulate now before we all perish!!!

 

 

 

Maybe an ethics course or two in a general education system would suffice. You know... try to get the 'ol "do unto other as you would have them do unto you" saying across thick skulls. Its apparent that you are well aware of this unspoken code of ethics else we would all be bidding on sir David's off the auction site. I do see your point though. I was just stating my opinion like I was asked to and I am willing to bet that it is most people's opinion here as well. As you can see, I am very passionate about the subject of price gouging. Illegal? No way... they are not holding a gun to anyones head demanding these marked up prices. Unethical? ABSOLUTELY!

[JohnInCleveland]

21 hours ago, Mikeltee said:

 

Maybe an ethics course or two in a general education system would suffice. You know... try to get the 'ol "do unto other as you would have them do unto you" saying across thick skulls. Its apparent that you are well aware of this unspoken code of ethics else we would all be bidding on sir David's off the auction site. I do see your point though. I was just stating my opinion like I was asked to and I am willing to bet that it is most people's opinion here as well. As you can see, I am very passionate about the subject of price gouging. Illegal? No way... they are not holding a gun to anyones head demanding these marked up prices. Unethical? ABSOLUTELY!

Scalping is finding a market inefficiency and manipulating it to your benefit.  

 

A few years ago, I led a group of folks who paid a bank a few hundred dollars to park cars in their lot during a festival that they knew nothing about.  I knew I could make a few thousand dollars by staffing 1 guy for 10 hours.  The bank should've gotten 3 or 4 times what I gave them, but they didn't want to make the effort and we're happy with what I have them.  

 

I didn't feel bad about what I did and I still don't.  

 

What we're really talking about here is an unspoken honor system in the community.  I'm running to Havana in a few days and I'll try and pick up some regionals if they're around for my buddy Zane.  I couldn't mark them up a buck for him bc he's a BOTL, but what if some random coworker told me he would pay me $500 for a box of Punch Punch?  I'd have a hard time saying no.  

[Mikeltee]

18 minutes ago, JohnInCleveland said:

Scalping is finding a market inefficiency and manipulating it to your benefit.  

 

A few years ago, I led a group of folks who paid a bank a few hundred dollars to park cars in their lot during a festival that they knew nothing about.  I knew I could make a few thousand dollars by staffing 1 guy for 10 hours.  The bank should've gotten 3 or 4 times what I gave them, but they didn't want to make the effort and we're happy with what I have them.  

 

I didn't feel bad about what I did and I still don't.  

 

What we're really talking about here is an unspoken honor system in the community.  I'm running to Havana in a few days and I'll try and pick up some regionals if they're around for my buddy Zane.  I couldn't mark them up a buck for him bc he's a BOTL, but what if some random coworker told me he would pay me $500 for a box of Punch Punch?  I'd have a hard time saying no.  

Did you buy something rare with the only intention being reselling it at a ridiculous markup? No? Then you do not fit into this category that we are discussing. People like you might be fine with the notion. I respect that.... I however am not. People can sugar coat it all they want and it's still not going to change my mind. 

[El Presidente]

On 1/26/2020 at 2:19 AM, Mikeltee said:

 

Maybe an ethics course or two in a general education system would suffice. You know... try to get the 'ol "do unto other as you would have them do unto you" saying across thick skulls. Its apparent that you are well aware of this unspoken code of ethics else we would all be bidding on sir David's off the auction site. I do see your point though. I was just stating my opinion like I was asked to and I am willing to bet that it is most people's opinion here as well. As you can see, I am very passionate about the subject of price gouging. Illegal? No way... they are not holding a gun to anyones head demanding these marked up prices. Unethical? ABSOLUTELY!

Your passion on the subject comes through clearly. 

Water, food, education, healthcare...I am with you. 

I am not sure you can appropriate the same ethics with non essential luxury goods be they wine/cigars/truffles/watches  You don't need them. You can walk away without harm. The problem is that you "want" them. 

That is where the market comes into play.  Take a can of coke, you can pay a multitude of prices for the same product. costo, supermarket, corner store, gas station, vending machine, sports stadium.  From costco to the sports stadium that identical can has multiplied in price x 5.    Now some people grumble at the price of food and drink at the sports stadium, but they can decide not to buy and few would think it is about "ethics". 

Cigars are only different because it introduces the aspects of age, scarcity, and to a point legality.  There is still a multi layer market in play. Roughly,  Cuba, online, B&M & dolphin. If the first three don't work for you then you can consider the flipper. 

It simply amuses me that some people believe that the buyer has the right to take the the seller to task about the price he is selling his goods at.  

They are only cigars 

 

 

 

 

[Mikeltee]

Dolphins... that IS freaking BRILLIANT! I apologize but I must steal that from you. That is so much better than calling them scalpers.

[JohnInCleveland]

9 hours ago, Mikeltee said:

Did you buy something rare with the only intention being reselling it at a ridiculous markup? No? Then you do not fit into this category that we are discussing. People like you might be fine with the notion. I respect that.... I however am not. People can sugar coat it all they want and it's still not going to change my mind. 

I'm offering a similar scenario in order to give perspective on ways where people find market inefficiency to exploit for profit.  

 

Of course it's different.  I've never personally bought scarce cigars to profit bc the premise makes me feel icky.  To each their own I guess.  We all have to sleep with ourselves and how we treat others.