Temperature for storage

[Fugu]

Groundhog day yet again?

5 hours ago, sho671 said:

The same RH level at a lower temp means less moisture (absolute humidity) in the air so drier cigar. Colder air can't hold as much moisture as warmer air. 

And I've watched @PigFish's video, his understanding of relative humidity, absolute humidity, temperature and their relationship is lacking.

sho671, one basic thing you'd have to understand before being able to tackle any of these aspects in its finer detail (and before even coming any close to a position to be able to criticise folks who really know their physics):

absolute humidity (gas phase) ≠ moisture content of tobacco.

Brother, you are on the wrong track. Get to learn a little bit about the "concepts" of thermodynamics and of hygroscopicity.

Just trying to help you out (of) here.

[Tstew75]

I think storage temps are ok anywhere in that high 50s-high 60s window.

Much like wine storage, the only troubling things would be big temp swings in a short amount of time and possible exposure to warmer (>75) temps.  Of greatest importance is monitoring RH & making sure it's close to your goals.

Just my .02

[markmcc]

Well, that was certainly a larger and more robust discussion than I thought I might be kicking off. 

I'm going to chose to not worry about these cigars going down to 60 F with 62% RH.

 

[The Squiggler]

55 minutes ago, markmcc said:

I'm going to chose to not worry about these cigars going down to 60 F with 62% RH.

If you experience burn problems, you can always try bumping it up to 65RH.... if not, smoke on brother

[Derboesekoenig]

I think the MOST common people get wrong for storage conditions is temperature. They simply do not realize that temperature makes a huge difference, and only focus on relative humidity

[PigFish]

On 12/17/2019 at 8:14 AM, sho671 said:

The same RH level at a lower temp means less moisture (absolute humidity) in the air so drier cigar. Colder air can't hold as much moisture as warmer air. 

And I've watched @PigFish's video, his understanding of relative humidity, absolute humidity, temperature and their relationship is lacking.

Please share with us your vast experience with hygroscopic materials. Please provide isotherms of tobacco, and explain how your theory reconciles with the facts. I will pull myself out a nice cigar and wait for a good laugh.

If you intend on deriding me over this topic... study up mate. By using the term absolute humidity in conjunction with the bonding of water to a hygroscopic substrate, in this case tobacco, you have publicly demonstrated your cluelessness.

I can see your arguments now. (Insert quote from some famous person who is as ignorant as you are here)

Good luck, Piggy

 

[PigFish]

On 12/17/2019 at 2:02 PM, Fugu said:

Groundhog day yet again?

sho671, one basic thing you'd have to understand before being able to tackle any of these aspects in its finer detail (and before even coming any close to a position to be able to criticise folks who really know their physics):

absolute humidity (gas phase) ≠ moisture content of tobacco.

Brother, you are on the wrong track. Get to learn a little bit about the "concepts" of thermodynamics and of hygroscopicity.

Just trying to help you out (of) here.

Goo to the rescue! Cheers mate! -R

[PigFish]

On 12/17/2019 at 9:17 AM, BuzzArd said:

Will take more than the comment above to get Ray’s hackles up.   He's done the research.  If someone doesn’t believe him I promise you he won’t care. 

Comments about my knowledge of hygroscopic materials notwithstanding, threads like this have caused more damage to cigars than a warehouse fire. That is pretty much why I spoke up.

Me, I have a RGPC lit up in my hotel realizing that I cannot fix internet ignorance. What I can do is help a few that are interested in how facts can affect their storage.

Ignorance is fine with me. But watching some blindly following the bellwether to the captive bolt is something that I have fought on forums for well over a decade. Want to trash your cigars... just read this thread (drink the coolaid) and follow the unrelated science to mold city.

Hope you are well brother! -R

[RazorbackFan]

Ray @PigFish, this seems as good an opportunity as any to give a quick note of thanks for the info you’ve provided over the years. 

I watched your videos, read your posts, and applied it to my troubled setup. And I’ve enjoyed many great cigars in optimal conditions as a result. The internet is full of bad info about the subject. Yours seemed counterintuitive to me at first, but I tried it, and I’ll be damned if it didn’t work! My humidors are humming in perfect conditions now .

I lurk here these days and seldom post, but your input really helped me and I wanted to say thank you. 

[PigFish]

 

3 hours ago, RazorbackFan said:

Ray @PigFish, this seems as good an opportunity as any to give a quick note of thanks for the info you’ve provided over the years. 

I watched your videos, read your posts, and applied it to my troubled setup. And I’ve enjoyed many great cigars in optimal conditions as a result. The internet is full of bad info about the subject. Yours seemed counterintuitive to me at first, but I tried it, and I’ll be damned if it didn’t work! My humidors are humming in perfect conditions now .

I lurk here these days and seldom post, but your input really helped me and I wanted to say thank you. 

Thanks man... that is why I do it.

I have a day job. I build humidors for fun, and I sell a few here and there. It has never been about that. It has been about giving something that I know a lot about back to the broader community. If you only knew how many emails I get like this...! Knowing that I have helped many people stop the destruction and poor practice has made all the work that I have really done for myself, so very gratifying.

Like I tell almost everyone today, stop comparing cigars to open space. Tobacco is not gas in open space.

Tobacco is more like a pool of liquid water than space. Liquid water is held together by molecular bonds. All made stronger or weaker by vapor pressure and energy (heat, or lack of it). This is exactly what holds water to cigars. If you heat a pool of water what happens. It evaporates! Bingo... the counterintuitive nature of the subject goes away.

-the Pig

Heat water, bonds break, water vapor moves away from the pool. Heat cigars, water vapor bonds break, and water moves always from the cigar to space. You get this... you win. You conflate it with air, and rH, aH and all the rest of the phenomenon of water vapor as an unbound gas, and go down the wrong road.

Cheers mate. Thanks for the kind words. -R

[Derboesekoenig]

The problem is, your average joe is so arrogant and convoluted that he'll get an idea and stick with it, whether how right or wrong it is because of the inflated ego. And then the problem is only inflated when joe posts all over internet forums about how that is the correct way that cigars are to be stored and people tend to believe these things and never question it. But yet they have all these issues smoking their cigars and never question the source of their information.

@PigFishThank you for correcting me, even if indirectly. I had ideas in my head that turned out to be incorrect. Your information helped a lot, especially when it started making sense after implementing some of the ideas.