Davidoff Chateau Haut Brion- Market Top?

[Markspring1978]

So, a cab of 25 early 80’s Davidoff Chateau Haut Brion sold this weekend at an auction in London for $5,456, (including fees and converted to GBP). That comes out to about $220 a stick.
 

No question this is at the top of my holy grail list cabinets to acquire, and I was tempted to bid on them. Regardless, that is a pretty crazy price. For those who are not familiar with these, they are considered by some, (including MRN) to be the pinnacle of the Davidoff offerings. They are a small cigar with a 40 RG and 4” long. 
 

What do you think? Is $220 a stick the top? Or will these keep going?

[Guest Nekhyludov]

I believe they'll keep going. I really don't think many people are buying these to smoke anymore; they're just status symbols at this point. If that's the source of their value, they'll keep appreciating.

[Derboesekoenig]

These are grail material, top of the top. They will keep going. How do you guys rank the Davidoff line? Wish I would've tried some before they shot up in price these last 5 years....

[El Presidente]

1 hour ago, Markspring1978 said:

What do you think? Is $220 a stick the top? Or will these keep going?

It depends on any given day. 

There is no defined price here. Few reference points. 

I comes down to potential buyer exposure and motivation.  For one buyer it will be worth $220 a stick. For another it will be a priceless piece of memorabilia.

You just need to keep finding the latter. 

 

[99call]

A steady check on Chinese collectors Instagram pages. Makes you realise that there are probably at the very least about 100 vintage davidoffs being smoked every week in China, with the real figure potentially being many multiples of that. These might be being left on the shelf to gather dust & value in the rest of the world, but not In China......hats off to them.   If this rate of consumption continue I think they'll all be gone in another 20 to 30yrs.    Hence.  If you want them..get them.... Personally I've been very underwhelmed with my few Cuban Davidoffs experiences

[NSXCIGAR]

Who knows. It's getting to the issue of rarity now. Keep in mind these were being made until about 1991 so looking at them in 2005 or 2010 is a lot different today. I recall the price around $1,500-2,000 back then for Chateau series.

I also have huge reservations about buying cigars that are almost guaranteed to be expired. Unless you're filling out an already impressive collection any Davidoff outside of the 80th or Dom Peringnon which are certainly collector's items $5,400 is a lot to pay for Davidoff Chateau series. 

All the other cigars if that era are noted to have remained quite smokeable until today. Dunhill and the Dunhill exclusive brands have fared quite well over time. I always like to think that a large component of a cigar's value is it's potential to smoke amazingly.

Perusing through MRN it's apparent to me he is not a big fan nor a big collector of Davidoff. Most if the pics of the models are catalogue pics and not from his own collection and he gets in several backhanded swipes at the brand throughout the section. 

I guess the market is against me on this one but I think Davidoff is the most overrated vintage cigar. I just think a cigar outside of one with historical value that will probably not be enjoyable to smoke is not worth that kind of money. Maybe they're becoming more rare than I thought at this point. 

[Derboesekoenig]

At this point, I don't want to own them as a collectible, show them off, or just for whatever age they are. I want vintage cigars to smoke, and know from experience that it can be a coin toss whether they are worth it or not. Couldn't care any less about any prestige a cigar has been associated with as in the end, it's for my personal enjoyment and it will be burned. I've not been let down by vintage Boli or Partagas...

[Puros Y Vino]

7 hours ago, 99call said:

A steady check on Chinese collectors Instagram pages. Makes you realise that there are probably at the very least about 100 vintage davidoffs being smoked every week in China, with the real figure potentially being many multiples of that. These might be being left on the shelf to gather dust & value in the rest of the world, but not In China......hats off to them.   If this rate of consumption continue I think they'll all be gone in another 20 to 30yrs.    Hence.  If you want them..get them.... Personally I've been very underwhelmed with my few Cuban Davidoffs experiences

I somehow doubt that the majority of this sticks are even real.  About 7/8 years ago, you could buy replicas of the Cuban Davidoff boxes on Alibaba.com. Even the BHK boxes.  They had them all.  Dom P, Chateau Series, etc. The bands were available in bulk too.  I can't believe there are that many legit Davidoff's in the wild. Even when you go to a certain auction site, you see the same stock come up repeatedly. Minus a stick or two.  That says a lot. 

As for the pictured box. I've had one of these from the late  70's. It wasn't very flavourful.  There are some releases that have stood the test of time. The No1 and No 2 for instance. The ones I smoked were fantastic. The Chateau Latour as well.  A mid 80's Dom P was a very mild smoke with some hints of what was back when it was fresh. It was still worth the experience IMO. 

[99call]

2 hours ago, bundwallah said:

I somehow doubt that the majority of this sticks are even real.  About 7/8 years ago, you could buy replicas of the Cuban Davidoff boxes on Alibaba.com. Even the BHK boxes.  They had them all.  Dom P, Chateau Series, etc. The bands were available in bulk too.  I can't believe there are that many legit Davidoff's in the wild. Even when you go to a certain auction site, you see the same stock come up repeatedly. Minus a stick or two.  That says a lot. 

As for the pictured box. I've had one of these from the late  70's. It wasn't very flavourful.  There are some releases that have stood the test of time. The No1 and No 2 for instance. The ones I smoked were fantastic. The Chateau Latour as well.  A mid 80's Dom P was a very mild smoke with some hints of what was back when it was fresh. It was still worth the experience IMO. 

Yup. The biggest give away to me is not the davidoffs stuff but dunhill stuff where the band's feature lots of gold. And there is not even a speck of oxidised green on them. that would be massive alarm bells for me. Not to mention that the sticks themselves look like super bright glossy off rollers table stuff. You obviously do get oily vintage stuff with sheen, but nothing like the stuff you see on Instagram.   The fact that you can buy complete original 25 count sets of super rare cigar bands on eBay, for as little as £20 is super scary. 

[The Squiggler]

2 hours ago, bundwallah said:

About 7/8 years ago, you could buy replicas of the Cuban Davidoff boxes on Alibaba.com. Even the BHK boxes. 

Alibaba.com still sells the lacquered BHK boxes.  They also sell empty offset printed CC tubes (I saw Partagas and a few others).  It's so blatant and yet there's obviously no way to stop them.  At least the Cuban Davidoff boxes seem to have disappeared from their inventory (probably all filled with counterfeit cigars and being auctioned off as we speak).

[El Hoze]

I have smoked a fair number of Cuban Davidoffs over the years, very hit or miss. Agree that they are overrated. 

I would ask this question around some of the prices I see on Cohiba, especially ELs. I see crazy prices. 

A parallel argument could be made for watches, in particular Rolex. People are paying nearly 2X retail for watches still in production but in somewhat limited supply. Nuts. That market, by the way, is definitely beginning to roll over in recent weeks though prices are still absurd. 

[SigmundChurchill]

Cuban Davidoffs have been hit or miss for me in the last decade.  Some have definitely been past their prime.  For that reason alone, I would never spend the money for an entire box.  Too much money to risk.  

I smoked an early 80s Chateau Yquem for my 50th birthday this year that was nothing short of amazing, but then, I knew and trust the person from whom I bought it, and he highly recommended it.  So there was no risk.