Real or Fake CC with pictures

[Panhead]

Have the  counterfeiters up their game ?

  If this is not appropriate please delete I apologize.

 I purchase this box of RYJ wide Churchill last year. I can tell you that it wasn’t from our community or FOH. You guys now your sh!! so I thought this would be a great place to seek wisdom.

  With attached photos you will see the outside box the scratched off barcodes. The odd bottom of the box. And finally no cedar or Habanos paper inside of the box .  The wood grain dose not look normal and the lettering is larger than normal. The lettering is not and burned into the wood.

  So my thought is, are they taking the bottoms out of a real box and switching out the reals for fakes and replacing with look alikes ? No pics of cigars I smoked them and gave some to friends.

  If this is true I hope this will help the people that order their cigars online. 

[nKostyan]

If I'm not mistaken, DB10 should not have cedar veneer. Show photos of cigars

If it was an open box, the Habanos memo could be lost in quality control. Scratched code - the norm for gray sales

Ring range is not suitable for Wide Churchill

[mbflash80]

So how did the cigars smoke?  

[99call]

delete, noticed micronumbers have been scrubbed

[aphexafx]

https://www.friendsofhabanos.com/forum/forum/3-suspect-cigar-forum/

[NSXCIGAR]

Everything about that box looks fine, but the OP is stating the Habanos logo isn't burned into the bottom or depressed, so if so that might be a concerning sign. No leaflet of cedar divider wouldn't necessarily concern me. Barcodes get scratched all the time. But if the Habanos logo is all there is, I'd say the box is probably genuine. 

[MD Puffer]

2 hours ago, 99call said:

delete, noticed micronumbers have been scrubbed

I think I know where you might have been going with that, and though it might not help in this particular case since the microprinting has been obviously removed, I've been able to create the entire serial from the microstamping on any gray market boxes I've picked up (often they'll scrape the microprinting but it'll remain attached as a flap and can be gently realigned so one can ID the serial #).

[SCgarman]

The box looks as legit as they come. Wood grain on box bottom means nothing. You should be able to feel some imprint of the Habanos logo. Depth varies box by box. Many grey vendors scrub the micro serials off the government seal. Normal. Nobody is removing the box bottoms and switching out cigars. That would be too labor intensive just to rip off a customer. If you are not sure your source is "legit" PM myself or Rob the forum host. Most of us know the real vendors versus the guys selling the fake crap. Please don't be overly paranoid and call "fake" unless you are 100% absolutely sure. 

[TheMonk]

13 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

Everything about that box looks fine, but the OP is stating the Habanos logo isn't burned into the bottom or depressed, so if so that might be a concerning sign. No leaflet of cedar divider wouldn't necessarily concern me. Barcodes get scratched all the time. But if the Habanos logo is all there is, I'd say the box is probably genuine. 

Exactly, grey market does it all the time, in itself not a cause for concern. And the grain of the wood should be of no concern either, nor the cedar or HSA paper. However, when you put all of those together, and add the fact that the logo isn't burned into the bottom, then I'd say it's most likely a very good fake, even though the band and the printing on the box looks really good. I've yet to see a recent genuine box without the logo burned into the bottom of the box, in any type of box except lacquered ones.

[Derboesekoenig]

So you want to ask if they are fake after you smoked all the cigars? You must've enjoyed them...I so no reason why those would've been fakes. But again, If you want to PM me the source, that may give you a clearer understanding of what/who you're dealing with too

[stogieluver]

Several good points arguing for and against authenticity. No one has mentioned the government sticker being applied at the incorrect folding point. I know “it’s Cuba”,  but I almost never see that mistake.  Also, the Habanos sticker is a little off correct placement.

[Lotusguy]

Several good points arguing for and against authenticity. No one has mentioned the government sticker being applied at the incorrect folding point. I know “it’s Cuba”,  but I almost never see that mistake.  Also, the Habanos sticker is a little off correct placement.

I see that all the time - like well over 20% I would estimate. Sometimes it’s not folded over at all.

[TheMonk]

33 minutes ago, Lotusguy said:

I see that all the time - like well over 20% I would estimate. Sometimes it’s not folded over at all.

Yes, this happens more then it should, and including high value boxes.

[SCgarman]

4 hours ago, stogieluver said:

Several good points arguing for and against authenticity. No one has mentioned the government sticker being applied at the incorrect folding point. I know “it’s Cuba”,  but I almost never see that mistake.  Also, the Habanos sticker is a little off correct placement.

Here you go Rich. These are legit. Its Cuba.

[stogieluver]

5 hours ago, NYgarman said:

Here you go Rich. These are legit. Its Cuba.

Wow. I don’t recall ever receiving a box like that, but I’ve probably just overlooked it. 

Thanks. 

[SCgarman]

1 hour ago, stogieluver said:

Wow. I don’t recall ever receiving a box like that, but I’ve probably just overlooked it. 

Thanks. 

My first box of Sancho. Very unique flavor profile. Heavenly aroma. ?

[Baccy]

You left out the most important part, the cigars! We would really need to see them, and ideally SMOKE them, lol. I mean to know for sure the cigars themselves are key. If I were you, I'd grab some tweezers and a magnifying glass and go to work on that govt seal. I'm normally able to line up the numbers even after they have been scratched off. It takes a little effort, and patience but it may put you mind at ease.

[stogieluver]

4 hours ago, NYgarman said:

My first box of Sancho. Very unique flavor profile. Heavenly aroma. ?

Thanks for the recommendation, John. It’s been a long time since I’ve tried that marca. I need to revisit them. 

[Panhead]

    I would have dissect them but I didn’t waste my time and gave them away. I also emailed the people that I got it from but got no response to my situation. Also , the bottom of the box lettering was not indented like normal Cubans. Just inked on. Thats why I thought It was odd. Yea the black market has alot of its downs. However as crazy as cuba is I have never not had a box without the Habanos paper and The bottom of the box let during recess.

    However, after finding FOH there is no reason to buy anywhere else. This community is great bunch of people and the cigars are the best. 

[Smallclub]

Isn't a bit odd that people are talking about fake/legit cigars without a single word about the look and the taste of said cigars? ?

[SCgarman]

1 hour ago, Panhead said:

    I would have dissect them but I didn’t waste my time and gave them away. I also emailed the people that I got it from but got no response to my situation. Also , the bottom of the box lettering was not indented like normal Cubans. Just inked on. Thats why I thought It was odd. Yea the black market has alot of its downs. However as crazy as cuba is I have never not had a box without the Habanos paper and The bottom of the box let during recess.

    However, after finding FOH there is no reason to buy anywhere else. This community is great bunch of people and the cigars are the best. 

So, you didn't even smoke one of them...you gave them all away? Did you PM any members here the name of the vendor? There are several legitimate sources of genuine product on the net besides our host here. There are also several vendors who sell junk. Was this the first box purchased from this particular vendor? I know the cigars are gone, so it is really a moot point. But you have failed to answer any pertinent questions asked of you. 

[NSXCIGAR]

On 4/14/2019 at 11:33 AM, Panhead said:

 I would have [sic] dissect them

I'd you mean to literally dissect to check for long filler, I've found most good fakes are using long filler and have been for many years (despite what the Cigar Obsession guy might think). 

I recently came across some fake Cohiba Maduro Genios in Mexico that looked very, very good. Box, bands and everything. Not perfect, but very good. Cigars looked great. Got one to try (free). Great construction, long filler. Tasted like crap. Couldn't get to half before pitching it.