Humidor crisis

[Bri Fi]

So I was playing Tetris with my wineador to make room for more cigars on their way. I started to pull boxes out and felt they were damp. Looked inside of the boxes and a couple sticks were a little moldy but a lot of sticks were saturated with moisture. I believe the condensation built up in the back of the wineador which caused this. We’re talking about $1k worth of cigars so far. Any idea how I should salvage my sticks that are saturated? Thinking of how I could dry them out without damaging the oils. Any help is appreciated. 

[Philc2001]

One fast way to dry them out is to put them into your fridge in an unsealed container. The refrigeration process will suck out much of the moisture. Check them daily until they have a nice plyable crackle when you roll them between thumb and forefinger next to your ear. Meanwhile, you need to dry out that humidor. 

One other thing to mention is cigars tend to swell when they get wet, so some of them may crack in some time. 

[Bri Fi]

Thanks that’s what I was thinking of doing. Maybe adding some dry cider in the container to help 

[99call]

5 minutes ago, Bri Fi said:

Any help is appreciated. 

Check out Ray's (pigfish) youtube channel.   He'll often ward against 'off the shelf' wineadors specifically because of this problem (and a multitude of others). 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCx94vGTv08TVyn13-GasJYQ/videos

[Corylax18]

I would suggest you stop buying cigars and start putting that money towards a storage system that doesn't destroy your cigars. If you've got the money to throw $1,000 of sticks down the drain, then you have the money to buy and maintain a proper storage system.

Even a few coolers and $50-$100 worth of Boveda's would be a better option than something that's dumping water onto your cigars. I say all that from experience. I've used wineadors, with a similar level of success to you and eventually decided they were too much work. I didn't lose $1,000 worth of cigars, but I definitely had to toss a few.

[99call]

5 minutes ago, Bri Fi said:

Maybe adding some dry cider in the container to help 

I hope this is a joke

[CaptainQuintero]

  The best advice I can give is go slow, whatever you choose to do. Speed and reducing/increasing moisture content will cause damage to your cigars.

  If there's actual water on the cigars then pat dry with kitchen towel. I think the best bet is to stick the effected cigars into Ziploc bags with Rh beads. You're looking at multiple weeks not days to reduce as much damage as possible. Keep them sealed and let the beads do their job, every time you open them up you're messing with the Rh again. Try to keep the bags somewhere cool too to reduce the risk of mould/more mould.

You might need extra beads when the first lot are full (gone clear)

  Just remember never have any wine fridge type set up turned on unless you have a dedicated system in place to remove the added water that running them brings. This doesn't mean beads.

[Bri Fi]

3 minutes ago, 99call said:

I hope this is a joke

I meant cedar. Typo. 

[Bri Fi]

Thanks for the advice. I was using beads as a way to humidity my unit. I figured it would prevent over humidification. I have some dry boveda packs I’ll throw into a ziploc bag and see how things progress 

[CaptainQuintero]

and relax!

  Cigars are tough little things, I'd guess you're mostly going to be ok as long as you nurse them slowly and keep an eye out for mould.

[CaptainQuintero]

1 minute ago, Bri Fi said:

Thanks for the advice. I was using beads as a way to humidity my unit. I figured it would prevent over humidification. I have some dry boveda packs I’ll throw into a ziploc bag and see how things progress 

 The issue with running wine fridges of that they essentially introduce water to your sealed unit. Beads can work for a while until they are full up, but even then they won't cope with condensation hidden away where you can't see it, or puddles etc

[MigsG]

13 minutes ago, CaptainQuintero said:

  The best advice I can give is go slow, whatever you choose to do. Speed and reducing/increasing moisture content will cause damage to your cigars.

 

Great discussion, good advice here!  I've done damage in the past by speedily increasing moisture due to panic mode.   LOL.  I had an Edmundo Dantes that swelled up and cracked its wrapper.  

[99call]

14 minutes ago, Bri Fi said:

I have some dry boveda packs I’ll throw into a ziploc bag and see how things progress 

bingo

[aphexafx]

55 minutes ago, Bri Fi said:

I believe the condensation built up in the back of the wineador which caused this. We’re talking about $1k worth of cigars so far. Any idea how I should salvage my sticks that are saturated? Thinking of how I could dry them out without damaging the oils. Any help is appreciated. 

Good thing you noticed!  Yikes.  As mentioned, the TEC will condense moisture out of the internal air volume and in some designs this liquid water flows down the back of the compartment to a drain.  If this is not draining to the outside it needs to be handled or it will overflow.  I designed and built my own system and the TEC runoff in my unit is fully recycled by the (active) humidifier.

If you do not have a recycling system, then the runoff should have drained.  You should look into why this did not happen.

[Islandboy]

Sorry to hear about potentially ruined cigars. Condensation build-up in wine cooler-type humidors is an all too common theme. It’s also the reason I unplugged mine years ago, after experiencing a similar event. Wineadors make for great, well-sealed boxes, but are notoriously bad at keeping a steady RH - due to condensation. I’m just glad I'm able to keep my units in an air conditioned room.

Good luck with the restoration process!   

[Bri Fi]

I really appreciate everyone’s insight. My hydrometer which sits in the front of the humidor was showing 62% when I identified the problem. Must’ve been a huge difference between the front and rear of the unit. I suspect the drain began to overflow within the past week due to the condition of the affected cigars. 

[Bri Fi]

As a reference to others, this is a new air 281E. 

[Homer]

6 hours ago, Bri Fi said:

I really appreciate everyone’s insight. My hydrometer which sits in the front of the humidor was showing 62% when I identified the problem. Must’ve been a huge difference between the front and rear of the unit. I suspect the drain began to overflow within the past week due to the condition of the affected cigars. 

There is also hugeo difference between the bottom and top of the wineador. Do not use the cooling unit at all. Put in lots of 65% Bovedas.

[Bri Fi]

41 minutes ago, Homer said:

There is also hugeo difference between the bottom and top of the wineador. Do not use the cooling unit at all. Put in lots of 65% Bovedas.

I use 65% beads. Why not use the cooling function? Because of the condensation issues?

Where I live, it gets very hot In the summer (upwards of 120F outside and we keep the house near 75). When considering using the cooling function, I would have to choose between either high temp low rh, or low temp and high rh. I guess it comes down to which is worse. 

[Kitchen]

Keep in mind that the tobacco when the cigar is rolled is anywhere from damp to completely saturated, depending on whether it is filler, binder or wrapper.  So after rolling, cigars are pretty moist and need to be dried out, just like here.  This usually takes about 6 weeks for them to fully dry out to smokable status.  So not panicking, and going slowly, is the best way to go about this.  

However, moisture encourages faster fermentation that produces ammonia.  This takes time to leach out.  For the amount of ammonia produced from the increased fermentation due to when they wet the leaves, which is necessary so the cigar can be rolled, takes 1.5 to 2 years to fully leach out.  Point being, after they dry, you may still have to age them before they will smoke as good as they were before this happened.  

[MD Puffer]

15 hours ago, Bri Fi said:

Thanks that’s what I was thinking of doing. Maybe adding some dry cider in the container to help 

 

15 hours ago, 99call said:

I hope this is a joke

 

15 hours ago, Bri Fi said:

I meant cedar. Typo. 

 

I don’t know- maybe he’s onto something?

[aphexafx]

You can use the TEC function in your wineador.  That's the main reason many of us have them.  You just have to understand how they operate and how to manage the condensate (water) that they generate.  Out of the box they are designed to drain any condensed water to an evap tray on the outside of the unit.  There are two potential problems with this: 1) You are losing this moisture and must replace it to maintain your internal RH, and B) the simple gravity drains can become blocked which causes liquid water to backup into the compartment.

I have designed and built several custom wineadors and I always employ a water recycling system which takes care of both problems.  In other words, the condensed water from the TEC is routed back into the active humidifier medium, forming a closed loop.

 

If this is not feasible for you then you should A) check the integrity of your drain periodically and, B) prevent your stock from resting on the floor of the compartment just in case.

The formation of liquid water is not a failing of TEC units in particular.  Anytime you cool a surface to below a dew point and draw air containing moisture over that surface in order to cool the air, the moisture will condense onto that surface.  This is why refrigerators are notorious for drying out their contents.  It's an unavoidable side effect of mechanically cooling an air volume.

I see people placing bead socks in the drain tray in order to absorb the liquid water and hopefully re-evaporate it, however this is just asking for mold and deterioration of the sock material, in my opinion.  In my recycler builds I use a plastic collection tray and at all points any liquid water exists only as small traveling droplets or is fully absorbed into a volume of beads with frequent periodic air flow to help it re-evaporate.  You never want standing water, especially around cloth or other fabric materials.

 

@Bri Fi your unit uses a gravity channel molded into the back of the compartment which guides the condensed water droplets to a similarly molded drain tray in the floor, which is drained to the external evap tray via a short length of tubing  Check your drain...why didn't it function?

[MD Puffer]

Just curious- I’m having an Avallo being built currently and wondered how often these kinds of problems occur in purpose built TEC humidors?  Any comments or advice would be appreciated. 

[TheMonk]

15 hours ago, Corylax18 said:

I would suggest you stop buying cigars and start putting that money towards a storage system that doesn't destroy your cigars. If you've got the money to throw $1,000 of sticks down the drain, then you have the money to buy and maintain a proper storage system.

Even a few coolers and $50-$100 worth of Boveda's would be a better option than something that's dumping water onto your cigars. I say all that from experience. I've used wineadors, with a similar level of success to you and eventually decided they were too much work. I didn't lose $1,000 worth of cigars, but I definitely had to toss a few.

I've used wineadors with success for years, and never had one accumulate any visible type of moisture on the back, contrary to what I see happen every now and again. I assume this is probably do to the room temperature being consistently and significantly above the 16-20ºC mark (which mine isn't, it only creeps up to around 22-24º C and for a couple months a year), lack of an adequate/proportional humidification system and perhaps brand specifications or quality. My Liebherr in particular has really thick side walls and door, and it seems to really hold the temperature well.

[Bri Fi]

@aphexafx thank you for the information. I’ll have to look into your design moving forward. The reason the water did not drain is because the drain is still plugged. The boxes that were impacted were pushed up against the back of the wineador which soaked into the boxes. The boxes on the bottom of the unit were not impacted by overflow. My unit had too many boxes inside as I was using every bit of space inside. Live and learn.