Deleted

[JY0]

deleted

[SOFLO88]

HOLY SH*T !!!

I would have lost it. Was this through the port of Miami or MIA airport ? I've never had these issues going through FLL.

[JY0]

Airport

[Fuzz]

I feel your pain. However, in saying that, I do believe that they were right according to the website below.... albeit, they were being d*cks about it. As you did have more than the 100 cigars allowed under personal exemption, they were subject to seizure.

https://www.cbp.gov/travel/international-visitors/kbyg/customs-duty-info

Tobacco Products

Returning resident travelers may import tobacco products only in quantities not exceeding the amounts specified in the personal exemptions for which the traveler qualifies (not more than 200 cigarettes and 100 cigars if arriving from other than a beneficiary country and insular possession). Any quantities of tobacco products not permitted by a personal exemption are subject to detention, seizure, penalties, abandonment, and destruction. Tobacco products are typically purchased in duty-free stores, on sea carriers operating internationally or in foreign stores. These products are usually marked "Tax Exempt. For Use Outside the United States," or "U.S. Tax Exempt For Use Outside the United States."

Cuba:

In December 2014, President Obama announced his intention to re-establish diplomatic relations with Cuba.  The President did not lift the embargo against Cuba.  Absent a democratic or transitional government in Cuba, lifting the embargo requires a legislative statutory change.  Since the announcement, however, the Department of the Treasury’s Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) has amended the Cuba Assets Control Regulations (CACR), effective January 16, 2015, to authorize travel within certain categories to and from Cuba and to allow certain imports from and exports to Cuba.

All travelers, including those from Cuba, must comply with all applicable laws and regulations.  This includes the Harmonized Tariff Schedule of the United States (“HTSUS”) (2016) limitations on personal exemptions and rules of duty extended to non-residents and returning U.S. residents.

Persons subject to U.S. jurisdiction are authorized to engage in all transactions, including payments necessary to import certain goods and services produced by independent Cuban entrepreneurs as determined by the State Department and set forth in the State Department’s Section 515.582 list located at http://www.state.gov/e/eb/tfs/spi/.  On October 17, 2016, the Office of Foreign Asset Control relaxed restrictions so authorized travelers, arriving direct from Cuba, are now able to bring Cuban merchandise for personal use back to the United States and qualify for the U.S. Resident exemption (HTSUS 9804.00.65, which allows up to $800 total in goods, and adults 21 and older may include 1 liter of alcohol, 200 cigarettes, and 100 cigars). This exemption also applies to travelers, arriving from any country in the world, with declared Cuban merchandise.

 

[garagedragon]

Damn, I'm sorry you went through this. I came through Miami last November, and the U.S. Customs officer told me they had bigger fish to fry, and didn't want to hassle anyone with cigars. Things are defiantly changing.

[bpm32]

Don’t want to rub it in, so don’t answer if it’ll annoy you further, but what did you lose and what did you keep?

[Lotusguy]

That’s very disheartening to hear and I am sorry that this happened to you.

I heard a saying once to the effect of “those with the least amount of power feel the greatest need to exercise it”.

You did everything right and still got screwed. That makes me think twice about declaring in the future...

[JY0]

12 minutes ago, Lotusguy said:

That’s very disheartening to hear and I am sorry that this happened to you.

I heard a saying once to the effect of “those with the least amount of power feel the greatest need to exercise it”.

You did everything right and still got screwed. That makes me think twice about declaring in the future...

My thoughts exactly. 

[JY0]

3 hours ago, bpm32 said:

Don’t want to rub it in, so don’t answer if it’ll annoy you further, but what did you lose and what did you keep?

Kept 100, they stole 350

[selpo]

Sorry to hear!

[oliverdst]

It sounds very wrong that they didnt want to show you the statute.

In Brazil the limit is 25 cigars. No paying taxes allowed. They confiscate everything above 25.

[kevpro]

13 hours ago, Fuzz said:

I feel your pain. However, in saying that, I do believe that they were right according to the website below.... albeit, they were being d*cks about it. As you did have more than the 100 cigars allowed under personal exemption, they were subject to seizure.

https://www.cbp.gov/travel/international-visitors/kbyg/customs-duty-info

Tobacco Products

Returning resident travelers may import tobacco products only in quantities not exceeding the amounts specified in the personal exemptions for which the traveler qualifies (not more than 200 cigarettes and 100 cigars if arriving from other than a beneficiary country and insular possession). Any quantities of tobacco products not permitted by a personal exemption are subject to detention, seizure, penalties, abandonment, and destruction. Tobacco products are typically purchased in duty-free stores, on sea carriers operating internationally or in foreign stores. These products are usually marked "Tax Exempt. For Use Outside the United States," or "U.S. Tax Exempt For Use Outside the United States."

Cuba:

In December 2014, President Obama announced his intention to re-establish diplomatic relations with Cuba.  The President did not lift the embargo against Cuba.  Absent a democratic or transitional government in Cuba, lifting the embargo requires a legislative statutory change.  Since the announcement, however, the Department of the Treasury’s Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) has amended the Cuba Assets Control Regulations (CACR), effective January 16, 2015, to authorize travel within certain categories to and from Cuba and to allow certain imports from and exports to Cuba.

All travelers, including those from Cuba, must comply with all applicable laws and regulations.  This includes the Harmonized Tariff Schedule of the United States (“HTSUS”) (2016) limitations on personal exemptions and rules of duty extended to non-residents and returning U.S. residents.

Persons subject to U.S. jurisdiction are authorized to engage in all transactions, including payments necessary to import certain goods and services produced by independent Cuban entrepreneurs as determined by the State Department and set forth in the State Department’s Section 515.582 list located at http://www.state.gov/e/eb/tfs/spi/.  On October 17, 2016, the Office of Foreign Asset Control relaxed restrictions so authorized travelers, arriving direct from Cuba, are now able to bring Cuban merchandise for personal use back to the United States and qualify for the U.S. Resident exemption (HTSUS 9804.00.65, which allows up to $800 total in goods, and adults 21 and older may include 1 liter of alcohol, 200 cigarettes, and 100 cigars). This exemption also applies to travelers, arriving from any country in the world, with declared Cuban merchandise.

 

From my understanding the next paragraph under Cuba (see below) clearly states that amounts above the exemption are allowed but subject to 4% duty. 

Additionally, the Tobacco products section as noted above limits 100 cigars "if arriving from other than a beneficiary country and insular possession". While Cuba is not an insular possession (Virgin Islands / Guam) I am not sure if Cuba qualifies as a beneficiary or not.

I would think the Cuba specific section clears it from the seizure limit, but I'd be interested to hear from anyone who either has legal experience with US Customs policy or if anyone else has encountered this issue since the 2016 limit was lifted. 

 

Cuba:

In December 2014, President Obama announced his intention to re-establish diplomatic relations with Cuba.  The President did not lift the embargo against Cuba.  Absent a democratic or transitional government in Cuba, lifting the embargo requires a legislative statutory change.  Since the announcement, however, the Department of the Treasury’s Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) has amended the Cuba Assets Control Regulations (CACR), effective January 16, 2015, to authorize travel within certain categories to and from Cuba and to allow certain imports from and exports to Cuba.

All travelers, including those from Cuba, must comply with all applicable laws and regulations.  This includes the Harmonized Tariff Schedule of the United States (“HTSUS”) (2016) limitations on personal exemptions and rules of duty extended to non-residents and returning U.S. residents.

Persons subject to U.S. jurisdiction are authorized to engage in all transactions, including payments necessary to import certain goods and services produced by independent Cuban entrepreneurs as determined by the State Department and set forth in the State Department’s Section 515.582 list located at http://www.state.gov/e/eb/tfs/spi/.  On October 17, 2016, the Office of Foreign Asset Control relaxed restrictions so authorized travelers, arriving direct from Cuba, are now able to bring Cuban merchandise for personal use back to the United States and qualify for the U.S. Resident exemption (HTSUS 9804.00.65, which allows up to $800 total in goods, and adults 21 and older may include 1 liter of alcohol, 200 cigarettes, and 100 cigars). This exemption also applies to travelers, arriving from any country in the world, with declared Cuban merchandise.

Declared amounts in excess of the exemption are subject to a flat 4% rate of duty, and any applicable IRS taxes, pursuant to HTSUS 9816.00.20 and 19 CFR 148.101, which impose a duty rate of 4% of the fair retail value on goods from a Column 2 country.

[Fuzz]

Sorry, but no.

I had written a very long post citing this and that, then thought better of it, and just boiled it down to this: 450 cigars is not considered personal use under CBP regulations (limit is 100). As such, it is subject to the penalties for importing of commercial quantities (detention, seizure, penalties, abandonment, and destruction). That 4% flat rate only applies to items that are for personal use, and not deemed a commercial quantity.

https://www.cbp.gov/travel/international-visitors/kbyg/customs-duty-info

https://www.cbp.gov/trade/basic-import-export/cbp-public-notice-process-imports-cuba

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/82/~/importing%2Fbring-cuban-cigars-to-the-u.s.-for-personal-use.

Oh, and if you're thinking, "Fine then, I'll go every few weeks and grab 100 cigars", the duty free limits (monetary value, booze and tobacco) are cumulative over a 31 day period.

[kevpro]

I agree that a customs agent has the authority to determine what is and isn’t for “personal use” although they should have gone about it much more professionally in this case. 

The customs site does seem contradictory though, where almost every mention of a 100 cigar limit is in relation to a Duty Free limit instead of seizure except when not from a beneficiary country. 

I submitted a question to the customs site to hopefully get a more direct answer from the gov’t. I will supposedly hear back in 15 business days but I’d be surprised if I got anything helpful. 

[Ken Gargett]

20 hours ago, JY0 said:

I asked if I could write his badge number and name down.

some years ago in brisbane, at the international airport, i had a massive dispute with a customs security idiot. this was leaving, not returning. he had decided that being 14 years of age, he'd show everyone how important he was and chose me as the person he was going to hassle.

it went hammer and tongs and then i told him i'd be reporting him and what was his name and details etc. he immediately put a hand over his name badge and refused to show me. i was pointing out his cowardice very loudly to everyone in the security area (yes, i was seriously pissed at him). he decided he needed to be elsewhere so scurried back up into the main public area. hand still over name tag. i followed him at full tilt and chased him across the hall and continued to tell everyone what a sniveling little grub and coward and incompetent waste of space he was. i was on a roll. more and more senior security and customs arrived. wanting to know what on earth was going on. i did not give the poor 14 year old (he may have been a few years older than that but looked 14) a chance to say a word. told everyone in the most outraged and offended tones what i thought and complained about the way i had been treated. demanded action. demanded to know his name. and so on. eventually, i was allowed to proceed and assured no problems and that the little tosser would cause no further problems.

first thing i did in the club before takeoff was a letter of outrage to the company. got a very polite and apologetic one back, lots of grovelling and humble pie. and i was assured that they had identified the miscreant and that he had been sent on a week's retraining. bet he loved that. 

sometimes one does need to take a stand. 

and then i have had experiences that did not go so well. 

[Fuzz]

3 hours ago, kevpro said:

I agree that a customs agent has the authority to determine what is and isn’t for “personal use” although they should have gone about it much more professionally in this case. 

The customs site does seem contradictory though, where almost every mention of a 100 cigar limit is in relation to a Duty Free limit instead of seizure except when not from a beneficiary country. 

I submitted a question to the customs site to hopefully get a more direct answer from the gov’t. I will supposedly hear back in 15 business days but I’d be surprised if I got anything helpful. 

Don't get caught up with the "beneficiary country" thing, that's about reduced tariff rates. Cuba is not listed as a beneficiary country for the US, so no help there.

https://unctad.org/en/publicationslibrary/itcdtsbmisc62rev6_en.pdf

[kevpro]

11 hours ago, Fuzz said:

Don't get caught up with the "beneficiary country" thing, that's about reduced tariff rates. Cuba is not listed as a beneficiary country for the US, so no help there.

https://unctad.org/en/publicationslibrary/itcdtsbmisc62rev6_en.pdf

Thanks for clearing that up. It seems then the 100 cigar limit may be similar to the Aduana policy requiring sealed boxes, as in most people report no issues but could be enforced at any time.

[bpm32]

Hell, I had a very polite US Customs guy tell me the limit was 50 cigars, not 100. If you want certainty stay away from the government I guess.

[Fuzz]

2 hours ago, bpm32 said:

Hell, I had a very polite US Customs guy tell me the limit was 50 cigars, not 100. If you want certainly stay away from the government I guess.

The CBP website does contradict itself. One page says the duty free limit is 100, another says it is 50. However, the cigarette quantity also changes from 200 cigs to 300 cigs. Maybe big tobacco wants you to smoke less cigars and buy more ciggies?

https://www.cbp.gov/travel/international-visitors/kbyg/customs-duty-info

Tobacco Products

Returning resident travelers may import tobacco products only in quantities not exceeding the amounts specified in the personal exemptions for which the traveler qualifies (not more than 200 cigarettes and 100 cigars if arriving from other than a beneficiary country and insular possession).

https://www.cbp.gov/trade/basic-import-export/cbp-public-notice-process-imports-cuba

Returning Resident

Articles imported by or for the account of any person arriving in the United States who is a returning resident, has attained the age of 21, after having remained beyond the United States for a period of not less than 48 hours, for his or her personal or household use, but not imported for the account of any other person nor intended for sale, if declared in accordance with regulations of the Secretary of the Treasury and if such person has not claimed, an exemption under subheadings 9804.00.65, 9804.00.70 and 9804.00.72 within 30 days preceding his arrival, and claims exemption under only one of such items on his arrival:

9804.00.80      Articles (including not over 50 cigars, or 300 cigarettes, or 2 kilograms of smoking tobacco or a proportionate amount of each, and not over 1 liter of alcoholic beverages)

[LGC]

That sucks the big one!! I had a run in with my flint and butane lighter when laws changed in the US. I even printed out a copy of the regs from the TSA website. The A**hole didn’t care. He kept telling me it was a torch. I was traveling with a friend on the way to a herf in SoCal. When my friend came to back me up, a second TSA agent came and told him to back off to prevent any problems. I now never fly with anything I can’t lose. Those with few qualifications and too much power are dangerous. I trust those people like my wife and mother in law going shopping for the kids with my credit card...

 

[El Presidente]

On 3/13/2019 at 7:22 PM, Ken Gargett said:

 he had decided that being 14 years of age, he'd show everyone how important he was and chose me as the person he was going to hassle.

for all his faults..... he does appear to be a remarkably good judge of character 

[El Presidente]

I am going to move this temporarily to the waterhole. There may be others who have experienced this or who have a US legal background and can advise. 

I have always assumed Oz and the US took it's unfriendliest, unhinged and surliest individuals....put them through a weekend course before issuing them a badge/stamp/uniform and placing them at border patrol. 

[BarryVT]

Wow JYO! I feel for your loss. I would have been irate! Maybe I need to go back and reread rules. It was my understanding that you could bring back as many as you wanted, as long as for personal use, and you paid the 4% tax over 800. I was thinking of filling my suitcase when I go, and leaving clothes behind. And seriously, 450 cigars? Sounds like you came across the one d#@k in customs.

[Ken Gargett]

38 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

for all his faults..... he does appear to be a remarkably good judge of character 

sniveling little tosser he was.

it all started because i had a carry-on bag with about 9 kgs weight. i was allowed two of seven. so what i always did then was carry, inside the bag, a roll-up bag so i could spread the load into two bags, both of which were well less than the 7 kgs limit. perfectly acceptable. perfectly legal. he told me i could not do that. told him i could and would (and eventually did). he kept saying i could not and that i could throw the stuff away or take it back and check it in. i refused, as i was perfectly entitled to do. 

finally, he told me that i was not allowed to do it because he thought i'd simply put it all back in the one bag (even though that would have freed up space for other passengers and made sense). i gave him my word i would not (and in the end, i did not). he told me he did not believe me. that was when the fun really started. i told him that it was not up to him to make such a speculative call and that i had given him my word and was not used to some teenage tinpot hitler casting doubt on it. 

he refused to budge. 

i don't think he got another word in for the next twenty minutes, by which time i had followed him across the airport. and i doubt there was a person in the terminal who had not heard him described as a cowardly miserable weasel et al. i was not happy. 

i received humble apologies from his employers.

i looked for him many times in the following years, keen to renew our friendship. never saw him again. 

[Monterey]

It seems to be Miami.  There was another person who had 36 boxes and they busted him.  4 boxes is all he kept.  So it could be worse.

I brought in 34 boxes 2 months ago.  In Atlanta, they didn't even ask if I had tobacco.  Just alcohol.   

So I guess stay out of Miami, I'm sure they are doing what there boss is telling them to.