New US "Axis of Evil" includes Cuba

[Thig]

Not everyone in the US agrees with this policy so don't just throw us all in the same pot.

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[Nino]

5 minutes ago, Thig said:

Not everyone in the US agrees with this policy so don't just throw us all in the same pot.

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I know that well and you're right - will be meeting a lot of US friends next week in Havana and looking forward to that !

[nKostyan]

To my understanding the embargo was installed by Kennedy during the Cuban missile crisis. 

This was to show Cuba and others that there are very serious and large ramifications should one allow ones territory to be used as a launch platform for Russian nuclear missiles capable of striking anywhere in the US within minutes (Miami) to hours. 

The belligerent Cuban regime has not backed down from it’s chosen path of repression of its own people and aggression against the US. 

It has sent its people into wars across the continents under the banner of socialism and revolution.

Cuba is still sending its people in ‘brigades sociales’ to support socialist regimes like Maduro (who wages war on his own people).

That is their choice but it comes at a cost to them. 

The real victims here are the Cuban people who remain opressed, are left with very limited opportunities and see little in the way of progress over the years and whose lives are miserable.

The embargo does contribute to it but let’s not forget that by their own actions the Cuban government has brought this on themselves. 

I also believe that should the embargo be revoked tomorrow, that it would make little difference in the way the power dynamic on the island would work.

Those in power would still cling to it by any means necessary and syphon off any extra gains to the economic activity for military and personal use, leaving the population at large in the same difficult circumstances.

Do not forget that Cuba is not a socialist country (look towards the EU for examples of that) but a ruthless dictatorship.

Image the damage they could do if their actions didn’t have consequences (missile crisis, angola, el salvador, venezuela, nicaragua) and their economic development wasn’t somewhat influenced. 

As a final point, please don’t think the embargo is responsible for a food crisis. The cubans can feed themselves, but on my recent visit I have encountered many fallow fields where crops could be grown. Also in the cities hardly anybody has a vegetable patch in their yards or on their balconies and neither are vacant lots used to produce food.  

So much unused farmland is not an effect of the embargo, yet Cubans complain about the price of their vegetales on the open market. 

«U.S. sanctions against Cuba- a system of discriminatory economic measures imposed by the United States against Cuba. The sanctions were imposed in 1960, when Cuba expropriated the property of American citizens and corporations; in 1962, the sanctions were tightened to an almost complete embargo. As a condition of lifting the sanctions, the United States demands democratization and respect for human rights in Cuba, as well as an end to Cuba's military cooperation with other countries».

 

Maybe I'm selfish, but if sanctions will be canceled, Cigars can go up. On the other hand, the consumption of cigars in Asia (China, Vietnam, etc.) is now growing by more than 30% per year. We know that China does not support us unilateral sanctions, and I am afraid that more and more Cuban cigars will go to China

 

[Nino]

27 minutes ago, nKostyan said:

 As a condition of lifting the sanctions, the United States demands democratization and respect for human rights in Cuba, as well as an end to Cuba's military cooperation with other countries».
 

You better get a VERY comfy chair waiting for the lifting of the US embargo as Russia is considering building a military base in Cuba right now ....

https://www.newsweek.com/cold-war-russia-military-base-cuba-us-1195433
 

A senior Russian official said Wednesday that his country was seriously considering establishing a military base in Cuba, just as the two Cold War–era allies were set to meet for high-level talks and the United States mulled quitting a nuclear missile deal.

Colonel General Vladimir Shamanov, head of the Russian lower house of parliament's defense committee and a former airborne troops commander, became the latest Moscow figure to warn of the historic consequences of the U.S. leaving the 1987 Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces (INF) Treaty. The U.S. and Russia have accused one another of violating the agreement, but now President Donald Trump has announced his intention to end it, paving the way for new nuclear and conventional weapons systems at a time of heightened tensions.

"In order to strengthen our military presence in Cuba, we need at least the consent of the Cuban government. After all, this question is more political than military, and today, it’s probably premature to talk about any specific measures in response to a possible U.S. withdrawal from INF," Shamanov told the Interfax news agency.

"Now the active phase of assessing this scenario is underway and proposals will next be prepared with estimates," he added.

Shamanov's remarks came as Russian President Vladimir Putin was set to receive Cuban President Miguel Díaz-Canel on the first stop Friday of his debut world tour. The Russian politician went on to say that he would "not exclude" the prospect of a Russian military base in the Caribbean country coming up during these talks, which would also reportedly include a $50 million Russian loan for Cuba to buy weapons. Díaz-Canel, selected by his country's National Assembly to replace 86-year-old Raúl Castro in April, will then go on to visit the world's four other communist countries—China, North Korea, Vietnam and Laos.

Havana and Washington fell out after Fidel Castro ousted the island's U.S.-backed leader in 1959 and nationalized industries. In response, the U.S. enacted a near-total embargo on Cuba, compelling Castro to seek Soviet support. A CIA-sponsored attempt to overthrow the Cuban government in 1961 failed. In 1962, the U.S. discovered Soviet missile sites in Cuba and established a blockade to confront incoming Soviet forces in what came to be known as the Cuban Missile Crisis.

The tense standoff was settled after Moscow agreed to withdraw the weapons in exchange for Washington agreeing to remove U.S. missiles from Turkey. The U.S. embargo on Cuba remained, however, and, despite a thawing of ties under President Barack Obama in 2014, the Trump administration has reversed course and has blamed mysterious symptoms affecting U.S. diplomats in Havana on alleged sonic attacks.

Though Trump initially entered office expressing hope for a rapprochement between Washington and Moscow, he has also called for an expansion of military might. Last week, he announced that he sought to pull out of the INF treaty, a measure that banned the deployment of land-based nuclear and non-nuclear ballistic missiles with ranges of 500 to 5,500 kilometers (310 to 3,420 miles).

The Kremlin has warned that such a move showed the U.S. was, in fact, working on weapons systems that would violate the INF. It added, "If these systems are being developed, then actions are necessary from other countries, in this case, Russia, to restore balance in this sphere." Other current and former Russian politicians have drawn comparisons with the Cuban Missile Crisis.

Last week, Shamanov himself told the official RIA Novosti news outlet, "If we don’t stop now and don’t sit down to talk, then we could, in the long run, create conditions comparable to the Caribbean crisis." That same day, Russian Senator Alexei Pushkov told the state-run Tass Russian News Agency that "the danger is that the United States is pushing the world to another Cuban Missile Crisis."

Former Soviet General Secretary Mikhail Gorbachev, who signed the INF treaty alongside President Ronald Reagan in 1987, has also cautioned of a new arms race erupting should the deal unravel. In April, he cited the Cuban Missile Crisis as he urged the U.S. and Russia to come together because military incidents between them "in today’s charged atmosphere can lead to big trouble."

 

 

[nKostyan]

I know a little bit about history and politics. I think it's a play on words or a threat. Putin the decision has removed the last base in Cuba (the base of radio observations of Lourdes). He is consistent in his decisions and I think when he made the decision, he considered the option of worsening relations with the United States, but still decided to liquidate the base.... On the other hand, the Caribbean crisis should have taught Cuba not to play with foreign military bases anymore...

[Nino]

There was talk 4 years ago of Russia re-opening Lourdes SIGINT station again - but nothing has been heard since :

In July 2014, reports surfaced that Russia and Cuba agreed to reopen the facility for usage by Russian intelligence.^[3] However, Russia Today later removed their original story and replaced it with one denying there was such an agreement.^[4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lourdes_SIGINT_station

[Thig]

All I can say is I have never been prouder to be an American, especially in the last 2 years. America First. 

I agree with that 100%. I just don't think the embargo has accomplished what was wanted.

[bpm32]

12 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

not sure the cubans would see it quite like that. 

For sure, but I see the embargo primarily as an issue where Cuban-Americans are driving this, and the rest of us are pretty much sitting it out. I don’t think you’d find many people in the States who’d say ENDING the embargo is their number one issue, but the opposite is not true. There’s a reason Bolton didn’t give this speech in, say, Montana.

[Nino]

2 hours ago, Lotusguy said:

Proof that I lit one up

Nice long RG Panatela that I guess will have some years on it - Geniesse sie in Ruhe und lass die Karavanne vorbeiziehen, es hat keinen Zweck sich aufzuregen, erhöht nur den Blutdruck ?

[El Presidente]

Cheers for that. Suspensions being handed out now. See you end of month

[El Presidente]

6 hours ago, FatherOfPugs said:

I just have to ask, how is all of this absolute nonsense conjecture, CLEARLY agitating worthlessness, and what seems like certain folks on here are allowed to poke the bear, but when the bear wakes up and swings back, the bear is the one in the wrong, helping anything? Seems to be quite hypocritical, if fairness is what is to be presumed based upon what El Pres has stated.  There is a clear attack of one side of the political spectrum here.

But should I be surprised, there is always that one side that can do whatever they please because they "think" they are the majority opinion, and those that call them on it are immediately called some sort of prejudice.  

 

FOP, to be clear, I suspect the majority view here or globally is to lift the embargo.  If you want to put forward a defence as to why it should be kept, I have no problem with that. I wouldn't expect too much support however given the nature of the site and the fact that many of us have long term friends/family in Cuba. 

If you are referring to the democrat/republican divide, then that is something US members generally bring to to a thread.

I don't have a horse in that race. Personally they (politicians everywhere) are all untrustworthy tools. 

I made it clear that this thread was to be about "Policy" and not "Personalities"

it is the same protagonists everytime. Thankfully in this thread they were schooling together and  have been scooped in the net and put on the bank for a few weeks. Next time it is a permanent boot.  

I will review it all shortly just in case I missed anyone. 

See you when I get back