Air tight vs. not air tight humidors

[lavish&acquiredtaste]

Hi everyone, 

What are your thoughts on this: https://www.german.us/en/content/46-tightness-of-a-cigar-humidor-tight-sealing

This company leaves minor "ventilation gaps" in their humidors, arguing that ventilation is important. Won't this make it really hard to maintain humidity?

[Islandboy]

Hmm...interesting. The info seems to contradict itself a bit. They claim that a humidor needs to maintain a constant level of relative humidity, which I’m on board with. But I can’t really see how ventilation allows the humidor to adapt to changing conditions in the surrounding area. But then I’m no scientist.

I keep my humidors in an air conditioned room, where I imagine air-tightness is crucial, and my constant hygrometer readings seem to support this. As far as exchanging air, the doors are open briefly almost daily...I would think this would satisfy that concern.

[Fuzz]

Mr Pigfish! Paging, Mr Pigfish!

[ayepatz]

[Fugu]

Well, if you really want to page Piggert, then call @PigFish

A company claiming humidors would NEED to be leaking is simply not capable of implementing a true self-sustaining active climate control. That's all behind this yack. They obviously need to present this as being "science" in an attempt to hide their own incapabilities. What is more, their claim only holds if assuming a net flux from the inside to the ambient (tropics, de-humidification anyone?). Clear and brief - utter nonsense. Air exchange with the ambient is not needed in a controlled humidor. But I am sure Piggy as a practitioner will add his expert remarks here.

[Colt45]

Some members seal the boxes within their humidors to try and limit air exchange. Some members use fans within their humidors in order to circulate air...

[PigFish]

On 7/8/2018 at 12:05 PM, Colt45 said:

Some members seal the boxes within their humidors to try and limit air exchange. Some members use fans within their humidors in order to circulate air...

Circulation of air, and 'air exchange' are two entirely different topics.

There is only one reason to 'bleed' to or from the ambient, and that is because you need its assistance. I have tried this. A decade ago, I felt I needed the help of a rH negative ambient as so many humidor makers require.

In the refrigeration world, a perspective that I keep in making controlled humidors, direct action is the action of reducing temperature. So in refrigeration, direct action is moving from a position (say above a set point) to below it. In the controlled humidor world then, direct temperature control is reducing it, and reverse temperature is increasing it. This is really only semantics, but it defines terms and a perspective.

Most humidor makers require ambient 'support.' With that support they 'skip' functions due to the fact that they support only actions against a 'majority' ambient. If you plant a well know humidor makers humidor in a cool damp place the problem will show itself. You will get wet moldy cigars if the ambient is left untreated because the humidor itself is driven and supported by the ambient. In order to have a consummate humidor, you must accept that the ambient is unreliable and your foe. With that data in hand you build a humidor that works in both direct and reverse direction. This is what my humidors do...

Humidors are tougher to build that way. They are more expensive too! That is why most humidor makers don't build them to work in forward and reverse. The majority of people live in a conditioned home. That home will carry a room temperature ambient within say 5F +-. With this in mind, the humidor maker, makes assumptions on the minimum controls needed. You get a humidor that works most of, or all the time as long as you keep your conditioned space within limits. If it goes outside of those limits, your humidor fails.

The more volatile your ambient, the older your home, the more you pay to support your own comfort as well as the comfort of your cigars. I literally cannot afford to keep my home at 70F all year round. Nor do I really want to. I build a controlled humidor, coming full circle, that does not have major air exchanges because that make for a more stable humidor. However this rule is broken when you need the support of positive or negative ambient to keep your humidor working.

Most of todays automated humidors rely on temperatures in excess (at least 2 or 3F) above the lowest temperature set point that they allow you. Of course they don't tell you this. This is why a Newair humidor (if you can call them humidors) give you a maximum temperature set point of 65 or 66F. They need to force a cooling cycle on you for the supportive dehydration that it brings. You put that box in a cooler ambient where the temp does not cycle and you will get wet cigars due to the 'free water' left in most refrigerated boxes.

A humidor by definition is a boundary from the ambient. Boundary, meaning barrier. Porous barriers are not really barriers. Frankly, the weaker the boundary, the weaker the humidor.

I did once bore rather large holes in controlled humidors at one point many years ago. I used all kinds of materials (from foam to Tyvek) to attempt to control that boundary 'gateway.' I learned that I was fooling myself and handicapping myself in the long run 'needing' support of the ambient to build a humidor. I don't need air and water vapor leaks to build a humidor that works. It can be done. You just have know how to do it, and pay the overhead in controls and engineering to pull it off.

To conclude, I don't care who tells you different. A porous humidor is a weak one. If you take the ambient as something you don't trust, then the help it brings in August is the harm it does you in October.

What did your mom tell you when you left the front door open when the heat or AC was on??? Mom new better. Many humidor makers could learn a lesson from Moms all around the world!

 Cheers! -Piggy

[PigFish]

On 7/2/2018 at 9:28 PM, ayepatz said:

I love this, by the way!!! -LOL