Trying To Understand Vitolas

[Silverstix]

I should start by saying that this question is coming from someone who has more knowledge of the NC world than the CC world.  I am pretty new to this side.  In the NC world, the same cigar is offered in different sizes - for example the Oliva Serie V is offered in Robusto, Toro, Lancero, etc and I believe it is supposed to be the same blend in different sizes.  Now we all know that the vitola can have a direct affect on the taste of the cigar, but that's another conversation (I think)

My question is - do Cuban marcas do this the same way?  Are these the same blend in different sizes, or truly different cigars altogether? Some examples:

H Upmann - you have the HUPC @ 5x42, the Regalias @ 5.06x42, the Noellas at 5.3x42, the Coronas Major @ 5.13x42 - all very similar sizes, are they different blends?

Montecristo - 1, 2, 3, 4, & 5 - are these all supposed to be different cigars?  I smoked my first Monte #2 last night and it was nowhere near the chocolate bomb that the Monte #4 was

Bolivar - the Tubo 1 is 5.5x42 and the Tubo 2 is 5.13x42

There are many other examples amongst the marcas.  What say you, FOH'ers?

[Colt45]

typically the blend will vary.

[NSXCIGAR]

From what I've seen and understand it appears that NC vitolas typically are different versions of the same blend, notwithstanding the variations in taste and flavor that occur naturally between larger and smaller vitolas.

CC marcas and lines have many different blend variations within them. This was more pronounced in the past but still persists. Prior to the early 2000s there could even be pronounced differences in blend between the same cigar in dress box and cab versions. Or the same vitola with different names like Bolivar Coronas Gigantes and Bolivar Churchills. Same vitola, totally different blends. 

[Fugu]

2 hours ago, Colt45 said:

typically the blend will vary.

Depends...

2 hours ago, Silverstix said:

Montecristo - 1, 2, 3, 4, & 5

For the above example, the 1, 3, 4 and 5 are pretty close in blending (with the No.5 showing a bit more strength and is fuller in body, as is often the case in the Perlas or Minutos format to make up a bit for the short smoke). The No. 2 is an exception in this lineup, due to the deviating ring gauge and also due to being a torpedo, ie. piramides.

Same e.g. you can say for the RyJ Cedros de Luxe, 1, 2 and 3 - for me - the same blend, just different-length cigars.

 

[canadianbeaver]

Welcome to cc’s and I would add a couple of dimensions beyond proportion of three elements (wrapper, binder, filler) to a particular cigar.

Review that year by your fellow smoker might yay or nay whether you want it.

Length of time before it is amazing may be subjective or too long to keep them unsmoked lol.

Storage environment might make the cigars greater, or not so greater no matter what vitola.

Do your best and enjoy the ride.

CB

 

[Piligrim]

usually same line has pretty same blend, same marka has same strenght excluding some special lines, like serie open of Montecrito which has medium strenght and regular Monte medium to full.

[SCgarman]

In my experience for a few examples, the HUPC and HU #2 are pretty much the same except for the size difference. I agree that a good Monte4 trumps a Monte2 in every way. Smaller vitolas such as petit coronas, minutos and similar tend to be more flavor bombs than larger sizes. 

But you are correct regarding the NC world, the same blend is typically used for all sizes for a particular cigar. 

[fitzy]

How does this apply to something like these:

RyJ Petit Corona

RyJ Mille Fleur

RyJ Cedros De luxe #3 (The regular production ones)

RyJ Romeo #2

 

Same size, same brand. Not the same blend at least from when I can tell between the Mille Fleur and the PC. Is it just different grades of tobacco used? In that case what would be their top of the line PC vs their bottom of the line? I assume that's based on price with the Cedro's being more expensive than the others. I know the MF were once machine made but are they cheap because of that or because they use lower quality tobacco?

Personally from the few RyJ Mille Fleur and RyJ PC I've smoked I find I prefer the MF flavor profile. I still need to try the Romeo #2 and the Cedros #3. 

It's stuff like this that makes guys like me that are not new to NC's but are new to CC's a tad confused.

[fitzy]

Partagas is a mystery to me also. They have 6 cigars that are pretty close in size. 5 of them were previously machine made. It's funny how they are still being made but stuff like HUPC aren't. 

Of these so far I've only smoked the Mille Fleurs but I'm planning on trying some shorts. 

Aristocrats
40 x 129

Coronas Junior
40 x 117

Coronas Senior
42 x 132

Mille Fleurs
42 x 129

Petit Coronas Especiales
42 x 132

Shorts (Not formerly machine made)
42 x 110
 

Meanwhile Bolivar like the BPC, the Tubos no 2 and the BCJ make perfect sense to me. They have two sizes and a third cigar in the same size as the PC but in a tube for people that like em. Makes total sense.

[Silverstix]

59 minutes ago, Hutch said:

To attempt to duplicate a PC blend in a Robusto is a virtually impossible task. 

I would think it's very tough too, but they do it in the NC's pretty well actually

[Fugu]

4 hours ago, fitzy said:

It's stuff like this that makes guys like me that are not new to NC's but are new to CC's a tad confused.

... and It's guys like you asking such questions making HSA reconsider and streamline their portfolio....

Kidding aside - it is in fact to a part caused historically. Preferred cigars/vitolas for different markets. In times of online-shopping and with the switching of the former machine-mades to handmade, this picture is being blurred. And yes, different levels of quality catering to different consumers.

[NSXCIGAR]

6 hours ago, fitzy said:

How does this apply to something like these:

RyJ Petit Corona

RyJ Mille Fleur

RyJ Cedros De luxe #3 (The regular production ones)

RyJ Romeo #2

 

6 hours ago, fitzy said:

Of these so far I've only smoked the Mille Fleurs but I'm planning on trying some shorts. 

Aristocrats
40 x 129

Coronas Junior
40 x 117

Coronas Senior
42 x 132

Mille Fleurs
42 x 129

Petit Coronas Especiales
42 x 132

Shorts (Not formerly machine made)
42 x 110

Most of these variations are of a different blend, albeit sometimes imperceptibly so. And yes, some may use different grades or quality of tobacco than others. Prices vary and one must find their favorite or best value for themselves. In the case of Partagas, there is no duplication of vitola. For RyJ they are all Marevas. Some are stronger, some are creamier, some are more mild. 

In the case of Partagas, I would separate out the Shorts from that list. They are of a much higher quality than the range of what we refer to as the "small Partagas" offerings and are accordingly higher priced. 

 

4 hours ago, Hutch said:

To attempt to duplicate a PC blend in a Robusto is a virtually impossible task. 

I know what you mean, but it is possible. One just keeps the same ratio of ligero, seco and volado. Obviously the wrapper is going to represent a larger portion of the smaller RG cigar and the cigar will also have natural flavor variation and evolution from its size but the blends can technically be the same. There are certainly things a blender can do with larger RG cigars that they can't with smaller RG cigars, but if one is simply scaling the recipe up or down it will be the same blend. There are many here, including myself, that feel the HUPC was the same blend as the No. 2. 

 

6 hours ago, fitzy said:

Meanwhile Bolivar like the BPC, the Tubos no 2 and the BCJ make perfect sense to me. They have two sizes and a third cigar in the same size as the PC but in a tube for people that like em. Makes total sense.

These cigars all have different blends. It is my strong opinion Boli Tubos No. 2 is not the same blend as the BPC, nor was the Boli Tubos No. 1 the same as the Boli Coronas when both were in production. If they were they would have just called them BPC or BC in tubes as they do currently with the BRC. The BCJ is a significantly different blend than any other Boli IMO, not just a shorter BPC.

[fitzy]

Thanks for the input. It's greatly appreciated.