How important is digital privacy to you?

[ayepatz]

My wife recently switched to one of those “track-your-exercise” life insurance policies. She opened up the Health app on iPhone to set up step-tracking, and discovered that it had been logging her exercise stats for 18 months without her knowledge, or approval.

Being a lazy, fat bloke, I’d never even opened up the Health app on my iPhone, but sure enough, it had been logging my step info since the same day that my wife’s phone had been logging hers.

If our location info was being gathered in the same way, then, basically, Apple has been tracking our every move for 18 months! Without our knowledge or consent.

I would love all you folks to check your iPhones and see if the same has happened to you.

[BrightonCorgi]

I am a cyber security engineer, working with companies to protect private world's most precious crown jewels.  That being said, there is no such thing as free software or services.  You're best off not using Facebook, Google, or anything of the like.  You want privacy, send it in postal mail.  

[fabes]

59 minutes ago, ayepatz said:

If our location info was being gathered in the same way, then, basically, Apple has been tracking our every move for 18 months! Without our knowledge or consent.

I would love all you folks to check your iPhones and see if the same has happened to you.

This is not quite tho whole story here. Who is at fault? Apple for providing you your step count because the computer in your pocket has that ability and defaults to tracking it? Or is it your own fault because you purchased a device that tracks pretty much everything and you didn’t expect it to? 

You gave consent when you purchased and used the device. Omission of that knowledge doesn’t let you off the hook. 

[BrightonCorgi]

15 minutes ago, fabes said:

This is not quite tho whole story here. Who is at fault? Apple for providing you your step count because the computer in your pocket has that ability and defaults to tracking it? Or is it your own fault because you purchased a device that tracks pretty much everything and you didn’t expect it to? 

You gave consent when you purchased and used the device. Omission of that knowledge doesn’t let you off the hook. 

It's usually always the user's fault IMO.  They bought the device and installed the software.  They clicked the link in the email, etc... 

***Always shut off of Bluetooth when not actively using. Never scan a QPR Code.  Don't install free software or use free services***

[hedgeybaby]

The adage is: "If you're not paying for the product, YOU ARE THE PRODUCT."

Looking at Facebook's share price recently has filled me with absolute joy. I believed that they declared during their IPO, that their income is from selling advertising space. If it turns out that they are profiting by selling your data, then they could potentially fall afoul with the SEC.

If you are looking to up your privacy a bit, and stop the ad trackers may I suggest the following:

Install Brave browser, use Signal instant messenger, and for email ProtonMail. Turn off location settings on your phone! Delete all social media apps.

 

How To Uncover The Apps Tracking You On Facebook (And Block Them): https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-03-26/how-uncover-apps-tracking-you-facebook-and-block-them

How to see everything Facebook knows about you – but be warned, it may not be pretty http://www.alphr.com/facebook/1003521/see-everything-facebook-knows-about-you-here-s-how 

 

 

[Kitchen]

3 hours ago, ayepatz said:

My wife recently switched to one of those “track-your-exercise” life insurance policies. She opened up the Health app on iPhone to set up step-tracking, and discovered that it had been logging her exercise stats for 18 months without her knowledge, or approval.

Being a lazy, fat bloke, I’d never even opened up the Health app on my iPhone, but sure enough, it had been logging my step info since the same day that my wife’s phone had been logging hers.

If our location info was being gathered in the same way, then, basically, Apple has been tracking our every move for 18 months! Without our knowledge or consent.

I would love all you folks to check your iPhones and see if the same has happened to you.

Yep, just looked.  I had no idea it was tracking that.

[ayepatz]

4 hours ago, fabes said:

This is not quite tho whole story here. Who is at fault? Apple for providing you your step count because the computer in your pocket has that ability and defaults to tracking it? Or is it your own fault because you purchased a device that tracks pretty much everything and you didn’t expect it to? 

You gave consent when you purchased and used the device. Omission of that knowledge doesn’t let you off the hook. 

Off the hook? Your choice of words is somewhat accusatory. I have committed no crime here.

I purchased a phone. A phone which, incidentally, did not have this facility at the time of purchase.

 

[LordAnubis]

I’d rather see ads of motorbike helmets that I’m actually looking at than... double ended dildos. You may have other opinions ayepatz

I think there’s a purpose for monitoring a few things. But publicly making that knowledge available to others is a different kettle of fish.

I have no problems with a computer tracking my habits on a “moving average” type method. Ie save yesterday’s search history, provide ads based on that. Then tomorrow, delete all history, use yesterday’s ads and today’s history again for new ads.

But yes you need to be careful what you do/say/share on social media. You never know where it’ll bite you. For me it was at the Israeli border getting grilled for 5 hours by two Mossad agents because I had several comments on my Facebook by friends who ofcourse me being Muslim call me a terror!$t and Mossad doesn’t like that all too much. But seriously? What kind of border security does their research of a person on Facebook!?!


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[Magus]

Seeing as while most people "say" they want privacy online, then practice toss it out the window for a free pizza, I think the answer for the general population is that it isn't important.

However, personally I really miss the days when every single misstep and faux pas wasn't preserved forever. If a kid does half the stupid stuff I and my peers did when younger they aren't going to be hireable. Used to be .gov was all you had to worry about, but at least there were checks to help prevent them from using it. Not so with FB, Twitter, <whatever next>. One drunken moment, or word in anger/frustration, and it will follow you. EU or US laws to "scrub" won't help on a Russian or Central American server.

I think the only thing that will mitigate it is a massive change in how societies view past transgressions. Something of an agreed statute of limitation on stupid. An enlightened view that the person recorded 20 years ago is not the same person today. If that happens, while privacy will still be important to me, at least the impact of it not existing will be contained.

Went of on a bit of a tangent there

[ayepatz]

4 minutes ago, LordAnubis said:

I’d rather see ads of motorbike helmets that I’m actually looking at than... double ended dildos. You may have other opinions ayepatz

I think there’s a purpose for monitoring a few things. But publicly making that knowledge available to others is a different kettle of fish.

I have no problems with a computer tracking my habits on a “moving average” type method. Ie save yesterday’s search history, provide ads based on that. Then tomorrow, delete all history, use yesterday’s ads and today’s history again for new ads.

But yes you need to be careful what you do/say/share on social media. You never know where it’ll bite you. For me it was at the Israeli border getting grilled for 5 hours by two Mossad agents because I had several comments on my Facebook by friends who ofcourse me being Muslim call me a terror!$t and Mossad doesn’t like that all too much. But seriously? What kind of border security does their research of a person on Facebook!?!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Haha. Thanks Mus, but my current stock of those is sufficient. ?

I’m a bit old-fashioned, I admit, but, surely, one of the defining characteristics of democracy is the right to personal privacy.

Social media has eroded that, certainly, but not as much as anti-terrorism legislation. The UK Government can do whatever it likes under the umbrella of those laws.

Just because computers have the ability to track people, that does not give companies the right to use that knowledge without an individual’s consent. 

Every day, we get closer and closer to George Orwell’s dystopian vision of totalitarian control, and the thing that worries me is that we all just seem to be blindly accepting it.

 

[fabes]

32 minutes ago, ayepatz said:

Off the hook? Your choice of words is somewhat accusatory. I have committed no crime here.

I purchased a phone. A phone which, incidentally, did not have this facility at the time of purchase.

 

You may not have committed any crime here, but you’re certainly not the helpless victim you would like to claim to be. 

You had to hit the Accept button on terms of agreement to use your iphone. Your iphone also asks you if you would like it to provide you with location data like maps and such. You’ve opted into your phone doing what it did. And your phone absolutely had that facility the whole time.

I’m not trying to pick on you or anyone else, but just trying to point out that it’s not quite as secret agenda as people would like to think.

[mygar]

Well never saw the allure of facebook... saw it more as an accepted online voyerism on your friends... but hey! Was never comfortable with posting personal or family stuff... and giving that to a company (never had a facebook page). Im in development... the intent of facebook was monetizing from very beginning... despite all that bs you have heard from mark... that means selling your information. 

But you cant live in society much without participating in tech... that means ... privacy does not exist. It never has really... ever.

[ayepatz]

28 minutes ago, fabes said:

You may not have committed any crime here, but you’re certainly not the helpless victim you would like to claim to be. 

You had to hit the Accept button on terms of agreement to use your iphone. Your iphone also asks you if you would like it to provide you with location data like maps and such. You’ve opted into your phone doing what it did. And your phone absolutely had that facility the whole time.

I’m not trying to pick on you or anyone else, but just trying to point out that it’s not quite as secret agenda as people would like to think.

Lol mate. I’m neither a criminal, nor a victim. I’m just an average guy who bought a phone.

I’m willing to wager that most people have no idea of the full potential of their phone. Consumers buy iPhones. They don’t buy Apple tracking devices. Consumers also don’t read 500 page update agreements! Life is too short. Lol

So while they might have my legal consent, it was still done without my knowledge, hence my surprise.

I know that, legally, I don’t have a leg to stand on. Ignorance is never a defence. I’m not a complete idiot.

But I’m not talking about the legality of it. I’m talking about the morality of it.

The starting point should be the protection of privacy. Not the erosion of it.

[Hammer Smokin']

I don't believe social media itself has eroded privacy.

I think the average human's incessant need to be "noticed", to be "connected", and to be "liked" has eroded their own privacy.

Social media is what you make of it. But you can't have your cake and eat it too. If your on SM, you have decided to forgo privacy in order to scratch the narcissistic itch that so many humans seem to have.

 

[ayepatz]

6 hours ago, Hammer Smokin' said:

I don't believe social media itself has eroded privacy.

I think the average human's incessant need to be "noticed", to be "connected", and to be "liked" has eroded their own privacy.

Social media is what you make of it. But you can't have your cake and eat it too. If your on SM, you have decided to forgo privacy in order to scratch the narcissistic itch that so many humans seem to have.

 

That’s a fair point, yes. Human beings constantly seek validation, and Social Media is an outlet for that.

But have you seen the recent news about Facebook and Cambridge Analytica?

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/mar/26/the-cambridge-analytica-files-the-story-so-far

If that’s not erosion of privacy, I don’t know what is. Quite sinister, in my view.

[Fatshotbud]

I don't worry -- almost off grid using tried & true methods

[BrightonCorgi]

15 hours ago, JackofSpeed said:

While it may legally be the users fault, it’s certainly not ethical. I’d guess that 90% of users don’t understand what they’re are consenting to in those agreements.

Imagine if a bank sold all of its depositors data, ie balances, credit limits, applications. Would we be saying well hey you got a free checking account, carte blanche.

In general I’m opposed to regulation, but when consumers have no idea what they’re giving up, and there’s a whole unregulated data hoarding industry, id say that should be a priority. Not cigars

You are correct, it is not ethical (ethics and making billions are often at odds).  How would these free services and apps remain free if they were unable to monetize?

Banks, hospitals, etc....  are already under compliance regulation.  GDPR is going to make it tougher across every industry and could end up being a Tyson hook punch to social media as it is today.

[joeypots]

May be it's complicated.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/27/opinion/zuckerberg-facebook-digital-bullies.html?rref=collection%2Fcolumn%2Fthomas-l-friedman&action=click&contentCollection=opinion&region=stream&module=stream_unit&version=latest&contentPlacement=1&pgtype=collection