New Man Cave Input - Ozone Generator question

[JohnnyHobs]

Hello friends,

First, I just want to say hello as this is my first post. I’m a longtime viewer and first time poster here. The topics and information provided in these forums is incredible. 

I’m looking for some help as I have recently converted a small basement into a man cave/cigar lounge (attached some pictures, let me know your thoughts.) I had an exhaust fan installed and have an air purifier as well.  With those 2 things the smoke clears out quickly. However, after smoking and leaving it does nothing for the actual smell of the cigar smoke.  After reviewing some of the other topics in the forum. I saw an ozone generator mentioned, so I picked 1 of those up.  My Furnace is in the basement on the other side of louvre doors. I have a duct that runs through the smoking side which has a vent.  Even when the vent is closed I believe smoke is getting into this and the furnace and distributing through the house. 

My question is I know with ozone generators you are supposed to leave the room/vicinity. If I put that on and close the door, will it be ok for me and my dogs to be in the rest of the house.  I know that the ozone will also get distributed throughout the house when the furnace kicks on.  So don’t know if that would be too much ozone to be around. 

Sorry for this being so long. Looking forward to the discussion. 

Thanks!

J Hobbs

[mrmessy]

Primarily just wanted to compliment you on your setup. Looks great and wife friendly, which is important in my house

I've thought about setting up vents to the outside and air purifier, but like you I've heard that removing the odor is more difficult.

During my search about air purifiers, there were ones with ozone built in, but there seems to be more negatives than positive reasons to have ozone in the house.

Maybe invest in febreeze

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[mrmessy]

One question, do you have the exhaust fan on constantly? Seems to me the exhaust fan should have enough negative pressure, if sized properly, to create a vacuum. So smoke should not get into the vent that is in the room.

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[JohnnyHobs]

Thanks for the compliments regarding the setup. The goals of course are to keep the wife happy, which in turn allows me to keep smoking in the house.

When im down there smoking, I do run the exhaust constantly.  As for afterward I don’t really run it. I will keep the purifier on for a bit.  I ran the ozone generator for a little bit, and it did seem to really get a good amount of the smell out, and I also bought these cigar odor sprays from famous-smokes.  But, I just don’t know if I can run that ozone while I’m in the house. I read all those warnings about them and comments from some people saying they run it overnight while they sleep and they’re not in the room. 

[mrmessy]

From what I've read, there is no amount of ozone that is ok for you. I could be wrong.

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[Bords]

I had an ozone generator years ago and developed horrible allergic reactions. Also ate away at the rubber backing of our floor rugs which produced nasty off gassing be careful.


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[Ciscojohansson]

Maybe you could try a Rabbit Air Purifier. I believe it is for small cigar lounges and quiet enough for a home lounge as well.

It uses a HEPA filter that purifies the air, removing something like 99 % of pollutants from the air and better still it does not add anything to the air. So no ozone.

[PapaDisco]

When you say that "a duct that runs through the smoking side which has a vent" do you mean that it's a supply vent or that it is a return?   If it's a supply vent then you should be ok.  

I would change the switch on your exhaust fan so that it had a timer on it and could run well past the time you're in the lounge.  The exhaust vent (assuming it's big enough, like 1200CFM or more) creates the negative pressure you need to keep stink from flowing into the house.  And a little bit of ozone will help clean things up and it will dissipate the cold smoke smell rapidly.  Just don't do too much.

A cigar lounge I frequent in Hong Kong, The Red Chamber, is all carpet and fine upholstery, yet it never smells like an old ashtray.  Lots of ventilation and a little bit of ozone overnight keeps it that way.

Fabulous looking Cave you've got there!  Very nicely done!  

[Vitty]

Depending on where you are located climate-wise, a heated make-up air unit to pump fresh air into the room at roughly the same rate or slightly less than your fan is pulling out will help out quite a bit.  I've got one in my heated garage along with 3 exhaust fans that can roughly turn the entire air of the room over 15 times an hour which is necessary for smoking rooms (on the low end even).  I run this system the entire time I am smoking  and then have the whole thing on a timer that I set for 30 minutes after I leave.  This helps a ton!  There is still some lingering smoke smell though.  To get rid of this I run 2 rabbit air MinusA2's on high constantly.  After about a day you can barely smell the smoke anymore.  The one advantage my garage has over your room is that it is not connected to the central HVAC system so there is no chance the smell can permeate into the house as someone pointed out may happen if you have an air return in your lounge.

I should mention that I have chosen to avoid ozone altogether as a bit of research has led me to find that an unsafe quantity may linger in the air far longer than I am willing to remain out of the room.  With the rabbit airs and the makeup air unit I find the smell is pretty much gone anyways.

[Eric05]

awesome set up, this looks amazing. Although I have no information on the topic. Just wanted to let you know your basement is sick!

[madandana]

Very nice setup. If the problem is that the return air vent is drawing smoke through your HVAC system then distributing it through the house, you can get a UV light to install in your duct (very simple) that has an ozone emitter on it. If you want more info on it let me know.

[mrmessy]

Depending on where you are located climate-wise, a heated make-up air unit to pump fresh air into the room at roughly the same rate or slightly less than your fan is pulling out will help out quite a bit.  I've got one in my heated garage along with 3 exhaust fans that can roughly turn the entire air of the room over 15 times an hour which is necessary for smoking rooms (on the low end even).  I run this system the entire time I am smoking  and then have the whole thing on a timer that I set for 30 minutes after I leave.  This helps a ton!  There is still some lingering smoke smell though.  To get rid of this I run 2 rabbit air MinusA2's on high constantly.  After about a day you can barely smell the smoke anymore.  The one advantage my garage has over your room is that it is not connected to the central HVAC system so there is no chance the smell can permeate into the house as someone pointed out may happen if you have an air return in your lounge.
I should mention that I have chosen to avoid ozone altogether as a bit of research has led me to find that an unsafe quantity may linger in the air far longer than I am willing to remain out of the room.  With the rabbit airs and the makeup air unit I find the smell is pretty much gone anyways.

Nice sounding setup.

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[Vitty]

 

2 hours ago, mrmessy said:

Nice sounding setup.

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Thanks! Here is a photo of my heated makeup air unit.

[HabanosNJGuy]

Beautiful room.  Do you think smoke/smell is getting through the doors into your furnace?  Have you thought of sealing of the doors with weatherstripping, etc.  

I have a setup similar to @Vitty.  The exhaust fan/duct is separate from the rest of the house.  My heated make-up air duct is passive (no fan) as it relies on the negative pressure from the exhaust fan to bring in clean air from outside.  I also use one Rabbit Air MinusA2 unit set on automatic.  It turns on when it detects impurities in the air, turns off when the air is clean.  My experience is also similar in that the smell does linger for a day or two.  But if I don't smoke for one day, the smell is completely gone.  I do burn a scented candle while I'm smoking, and will leave it going, along with the exhaust, for several minutes after I'm finished smoking.  The candle helps significantly.  I looked into but decided against an ozone generator because of the health concerns.

Also curious about cigar storage in your room.  Do you use that wine cooler to actually store wine?

6 hours ago, Vitty said:

Depending on where you are located climate-wise, a heated make-up air unit to pump fresh air into the room at roughly the same rate or slightly less than your fan is pulling out will help out quite a bit.  I've got one in my heated garage along with 3 exhaust fans that can roughly turn the entire air of the room over 15 times an hour which is necessary for smoking rooms (on the low end even).  I run this system the entire time I am smoking  and then have the whole thing on a timer that I set for 30 minutes after I leave.  This helps a ton!  There is still some lingering smoke smell though.  To get rid of this I run 2 rabbit air MinusA2's on high constantly.  After about a day you can barely smell the smoke anymore.  The one advantage my garage has over your room is that it is not connected to the central HVAC system so there is no chance the smell can permeate into the house as someone pointed out may happen if you have an air return in your lounge.

I should mention that I have chosen to avoid ozone altogether as a bit of research has led me to find that an unsafe quantity may linger in the air far longer than I am willing to remain out of the room.  With the rabbit airs and the makeup air unit I find the smell is pretty much gone anyways.

[Wilzc]

Why...  would anyone induce O^3 into their homes??

 

O3 is highly oxidative! it'll induce rust and corrosion everywhere!!

 

Plus it smells funky.. :/

[JohnnyHobs]

Thanks for all the input and comments.  I think it may be getting through the louvre doors and into the furnace. I may replace those and make them a solid panel.  I figured there would be some hiccups and things to work on as the room was just finished. 

I do have an air purifier with the carbon filter, which does a fantastic job of clearing out the air when combined with the exhaust. I will leave it on high while smoking and then auto it when I leave the room. 

I definitely read a ton of the negative mentions on ozone, but also saw some saying that used properly, is an effective method.  It’s a small room so only have to run it for around 20-30 minutes to get most of the smell out. 

Also, the exhaust system I have is nowhere near that powerful.  When talking to an HVAC specialist, he said since the room is only around 200 square feet it didn’t need a high CFM.  Maybe I can add another or get a different 1. 

[Ult1mat3X]

I currently have two different kinds of air purifiers (3 of one kind and 1 of another) and they use a minimum of electricity. In fact, I think my ceiling fans use more than the air purifiers do.

The best air purifier, in my experience, is the Oransi Max HEPA Air Purifier. it costs @ $480 and the 3 filters, that have to be changed out annually, cost about $100/set. After buying and disposing of 12-15 different brands over the years (because they didnt work well), I've now had these Oransi air purifiers in my bedroom, computer room and living room for the past 6-7 years. I'm still amazed at how well they work.

One air purifier that's inexpensive but works fairly well is Oregon Scientific Air Purifier. It costs only $120 and the filters are only $20. I bought one of these recently (because I like Oregon Scientific products) and have it in a second bedroom, where it's working quite well. Check its reviews below:

https://wisepick.org/best-air-purifier-for-smoke/

[Markspring1978]

I own a fire and smoke damage restoration company. In addition to rebuilding structures that are damaged from fire, we work with ozone in high concentrations as one of the processes for removing smoke odor. When we use ozone, it is only in a controlled environment, high dosage for a single treatment. I would suggest that you completely avoid prolonged and repeated ozone treatments. There are a number of reasons to find another solution. Most importantly, ozone is quite toxic and will negatively impact your respiratory system over time. Running a unit, on a regular basis, “while you are sleeping” is not a good idea. Secondarily, over time, ozone exposure to your natural or organic materials and fibers in your man cave will cause deterioration. 

A couple suggestions, some have already been mentioned:

1. Ensure that your HVAC system for your home is completely isolated from this space. Supply and return plenums should not be ducted into this room. You may need to consider electric heat for this space, if you don’t have a dedicated air handling unit for this space. 

2. Completely seal this space. An insulation company can do this, if you aren’t comfortable with what this will entail. This will include sealing any penetration in the room such as light fixtures, electrical outlets, doors, along casing, plumbing penetrations in your cabinets, etc. In a perfect world, the entire man cave would be sealed with spray foam insulation, prior to installation of drywall. 

3. The key for smoke odor control are twofold; the first is removal of the smoke particles that are causing the odor to persist. This can be accomplished in two steps in a single air scrubber unit. HEPA filtered air scribblers with carbon activated pre-filters will help immensely. The HEPA will capture the <0.3 micron smoke particles, the carbon filter will remove the VOCs that “smell”. The second key is massive air exchange. As doctors say, “the solution to pollution, is dilution. The more air exchanges, the better.  The best way to accomplish this is with the use of a small, dedicated HRV, (heat recovery ventilation) system that will capture the heat energy, and recover it, while the air is exchanged with outside air. If you use a system like this, with HEPA filtration, your problem will be solved. The HRV won’t be cheap, but it also isn’t an astronomical cost either. 

4. Commercial lounges that are devoid of smoke smell have the space cleaned regularly and professionally. Smoke residue will inevitably accumulate and all surfaces need to be cleaned. This includes the walls and ceilings. In this respect, paint finish selections are important for their cleanability. Avoid flat or eggshell paints as they do not respond well to cleaning. A semi-gloss paint can be cleaned, and doesn’t have the microscopic pores that flat paints have that will soak up smoke particles like a sponge. When the surfaces are cleaned, use a mild degreaser in the cleaning solution to remove the “sticky” smoke residue. 

I hope some of this is helpful. Happy to chat more, if you like. PM me if you want my contact info. 

[ac031898]

@Markspring1978 very informative, thanks!

[JohnnyHobs]

@Ult1mat3X @Markspring1978  Thank you so much for this additional information. 

 

I haven't really used the ozone generator much. I’ve used it 2 times, in which I ran it for 30 minutes only.  I have a carbon activated air purifier by winix, but I will definitely look into something additional in regards to that.  I’m also going to look into the HRV that you mentioned. 

Honestly, I don’t use the room as much as I’d like due to the fear that the smell will penetrate the main living area.  I really have to figure out how to get it to stay isolated. 

Love that the thread is starting back up a little bit here. 

[bsubtown]

Ozone is particularly hard on certain materials like lycra. I run ozone on my hunting clothes for scent control and a pair of suspenders that were included with Sitka pants completely fell apart after two treatments. I think the trade off is worth it with eh hunting clothes because they are not intended to last forever (and there always new gucci patterns I NEED TO OWN). 

I toyed with the idea of adding ozone to my mancave/smoking/gunroom but have decided against it. I think I will end up just having my cleaning lady over to the room 2-4 times a year and give it through cleaning. I could do it myself but I really like creating jobs ?

[MD Puffer]

On 3/24/2018 at 11:21 AM, JohnnyHobs said:

Thanks for the compliments regarding the setup. The goals of course are to keep the wife happy...

Oh no no no no...  You’re going about this all wrong.  You should state your intention to her.  Tell her you’re going to smoke in your man cave- nay, you’re going to smoke anywhere in the house you want (you may even want to say “damn well please” instead) and that it’s up to her to figure out how to either ventilate the smoke or live with it.  

Trust me- this will work.  

Please reply back when you try this out and let us all know how it went.  

[JohnnyHobs]

@MD Puffer I’m not looking to get divorced quite yet .... 

[Foulhook]

My man cave is approximately 1200sqft. I have ceiling exhaust fans that handle the smoke well. But the smell will be there even with good air turnover. I have been running a ozone generator for near 10 years. I turn it on when I leave the room and have a small floor fan on low to move the O3 around the room. I set the timer for 30 minutes. I have zero problem with any deterioration of anything in that room. Nor can I smell ozone outside of that room. The next morning you would never guess someone had a cigar. Dont waste money on air cleaners like the rabbit air. They are pretty useless unless you change the filters very week and even then don’t do much. Filters are expensive. I had two rabbit airs running on both sides of the man cave at the beginning. Quickly found out they were pointless. 

Simple. Exhaust the smoke, use O3 to kill the odor.... or smoke outside. I hate smoking outside unless there is zero breeze. 

I have a cigar every evening. If you are only having a couple a week then you may not have an issue with smell 

[JohnnyHobs]

@Foulhook thanks for the reply. The smoke dissipates extremely quickly between the exhaust I have and the purifier.  As for the smell though, it seems that the smell gets into the HVAC system which causes the problem.  When the HVAC turns on it then gets dispersed through my house.  Don’t get me wrong it’s not horrible, but it’s not great.