Eduardo VII cigars

[samanderson]

On 12/19/2017 at 1:23 PM, cmbarton said:

Wow ... fascinating! Hope you can revive them and report back your experience!


 

Yeah, might give it a go reviving one or two, but I'd want to read a lot first, and make sure that I've got the right set up. If they were passable I'd be kinda keen to smoke one a year for the next 41 years--I would finish the box when I'm 80!

[samanderson]

On 12/19/2017 at 1:27 PM, prodigy said:

Just send me one to test

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk
 

haha

 

On 12/19/2017 at 2:53 PM, Andy04 said:

What an amazing find!

 

What was the address of antique shop you said had them for sale...

It's in Blenheim, New Zealand. I'm not sure where you live, but chances are it's a bit far away!

[Ken Gargett]

as a completely wild guess, i wonder if it was a box prepared for the coronation of Edward VII? much like we see today with everything from tea towels to coffee mugs if a Royal so much as sneezes.

and being in blenheim, i'd be asking the store if they could give you any info on the provenance and especially if perhaps you could chat to the family/person who supplied them. i'd be taking another wild guess, there are a few large properties - sheep? - in that area, some of which have been there for a very long time. i wonder if someone passed away and the family just cleaned out a lot of crap and shipped it to the nearest antique store. if they had no interest in cigars themselves, they'd have no idea that there would be such keen interest from people like us. you might be lucky they simply didn't toss them.

[samanderson]

Any further thoughts on the extra pics @Fugu?

[samanderson]

20 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

as a completely wild guess, i wonder if it was a box prepared for the coronation of Edward VII? much like we see today with everything from tea towels to coffee mugs if a Royal so much as sneezes.

and being in blenheim, i'd be asking the store if they could give you any info on the provenance and especially if perhaps you could chat to the family/person who supplied them. i'd be taking another wild guess, there are a few large properties - sheep? - in that area, some of which have been there for a very long time. i wonder if someone passed away and the family just cleaned out a lot of crap and shipped it to the nearest antique store. if they had no interest in cigars themselves, they'd have no idea that there would be such keen interest from people like us. you might be lucky they simply didn't toss them.

That's an interesting idea, Ken. I just called in to the guy who sold them to me. He said they came from a big old estate, and was part of a whole lot of stuff that came from around 1900-1920. He's going to contact the connection with the estate and see if he can find out any more information and get back to me.

[Ken Gargett]

1 minute ago, samanderson said:

That's an interesting idea, Ken. I just called in to the guy who sold them to me. He said they came from a big old estate, and was part of a whole lot of stuff that came from around 1900-1920. He's going to contact the connection with the estate and see if he can find out any more information and get back to me.

i reckon you just might have smokes that might be a centenary old. with luck.

 

[samanderson]

1 hour ago, Ken Gargett said:

i reckon you just might have smokes that might be a centenary old. with luck.

 

I'm hoping so!

I've been thinking more about your commemorative coronation idea and doing a little research. The phrase 'ich dien' (I serve) is the motto and along with the the three feathers make up the heraldic badge for the Prince of Wales (Edward's title prior to becoming King). The lion, unicorn and emblems shown on the insider lid are also elements of the coat of arms of the Prince of Wales. The pictures of Edward are all the same and they of his coronation that took place on 9th August 1902.  

[zeedubbya]

From a little quick research it appears Eduardo VII was a popular cigar (likely banding and boxing) made by many different brands pre-revolution. Have seen bands from Maria Guerrero, La Corona, Cifuentes, Fomento Cubana, Golofino, and others. They appear to be dated around the time of King Edward’s coronation.

 

Upon further investigation it looks like there was a trademark infringement case in a Canadian Court around 1902 with regards to the use of the coat of arms and picture of the King and it giving a cigar maker a competitive edge in the market by its usage.

 

https://books.google.com/books?id=71NRAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA202&lpg=PA202&dq=edward+vii+cigars&source=bl&ots=I5V75xMoJ9&sig=lWeik9swewcuNh-ziufxRoCqPIw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjku4Kx-ZzYAhVHuVMKHeM5BRw4FBDoAQgnMAE#v=onepage&q=edward%20vii%20cigars&f=false

 

With all this info it may stand to reason when one brand used the King Eduardo VII logo on their cigars other brands jumped on and put the same logos to maintain the competition. It seems likely one brand made a big splash with their King Eduardo VII cigars and others quickly started marketing them in the same manner. It’s interesting to note one of the most famous cigar brands ever are King Edwards.

 

Fascinating stuff here. As someone else said above, it is amazing how much mystery there is in pre-revolution cigars.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bugman78629]

BERRY NICE...... SEND ME ONE

[Fugu]

On 21.12.2017 at 9:27 PM, samanderson said:

Any further thoughts on the extra pics @Fugu?

No, unfortunately nothing more definite. But many thanks for posting the additional pics, always nice to see such! As Zane sais, the motive of King Edward VII had been quite popular around that time (and even earlier when still Prince of Wales), and almost every larger producer had a cigar with his image on the band in their portfolio. But this is certainly something special here. There seems having been at least two brands in existence bearing his name (still today, there is the current Swisher one, machine-made in Florida...). One with the Spanish spelling (what we have here, "Eduardo"), and another one with a French spelling (from the book mentioned, "Edouard"; see below). Interestingly, one would've expected an English spelling had it been commissioned and exported to Britain/British Empire on the event of Edward's coronation, but who knows.

The box is missing a lot of what you'd usually expect from a production of that era (no Cuban or Spanish coat of arms or other national emblems or signets, no mentioning of Cuba or Habana on the box, no marca or producer stated, no box iron-branding, no warranty seal, tapaclavo not being centered for some reason...). Still, I am also leaning towards Ken's assumption that it might have been some special, commissioned production. The multi-colour lithography is very elaborate and of high quality, which leads me to think this is much nearer to the turn of the century than to the revolution (and older than the vista on my pic below).

Pretty certain is at least that the box can't be older than 1902 (1901), the year of the coronation of King Edward VII. The lithography on the box is based on an official (studio) photograph showing him capped and gowned, by W. & D. Downey, London. (the original pic is claimed to be from 1901 or 1902, dep. on the different sources. But more likely to be 1902 since the coronation ceremony took place Aug. 1902. Though the studio-pic could have been taken some time in advance, to have it ready at hand for the actual event). In 1929 Cuba introduced the additional text of authenticity in red on the internal paper dressing, on the long side below the vista, as a further measure against counterfeiting. This seems lacking here (you may peek further down below the second row of cigars to check if there is something following below the motto). Therefore, my best guess would be that its production is dated somewhere between 1902 and 1929.

There is even the possibility that it hasn't been made in Cuba at all (instead in Florida). But the missing of a Cuban warranty seal (the third version would have been in effect by 1902) and the presence of a domestic tax seal could likewise be explained to indicate that this box had been sold on the island, or at least never been officially exported through the normal channels. As it seems 2 pesos had been the duty to be paid on this 50-ct box at that time. This might aid in dating the box by experts.

 

[samanderson]

Hey Fugu,

Thanks so much for all that information! Yes, the lack of all those expected items on the box is unusual and has me slightly worried that someone is going to say that they are reproductions or something. But no one has suggested that so far...

What you write seems a reasonable explanation--produced for the domestic market between 1902-1929 for the reasons you outline (there is nothing below the motto).

Thanks again for all your efforts.
Sam

 

[Buck14]

Box Split?

I’ll take a FIVER!

[samanderson]

You make a tempting offer, Buck...

[grizzlee]

Simply fantastic for the nostalgia alone. Top that with any possibility of recovery and you have an exceptional find.

[samanderson]

2 hours ago, grizzlee said:

Simply fantastic for the nostalgia alone. Top that with any possibility of recovery and you have an exceptional find.

Thanks grizzlee.

Anyone got any advice on how to humidify these cigars right? I've had a quick look but I've not found anything online about re-humidifying such old cigars. I obviously want to avoid having the wrappers split or anything...

[Fugu]

9 hours ago, samanderson said:

Anyone got any advice on how to humidify these cigars right? I've had a quick look but I've not found anything online about re-humidifying such old cigars. I obviously want to avoid having the wrappers split or anything...

Most important: go slow.

You may check their actual moisture first by putting the whole box in a bag (clear Ziplock or the like) adding one or two (functional) hygrometers. Keep temperature constant and wait for stabilization of the RH reading. Important: test-temperature needs to be kept absolutely constant for accurate results.

[Buck14]

9 hours ago, samanderson said:

Thanks grizzlee.

Anyone got any advice on how to humidify these cigars right? I've had a quick look but I've not found anything online about re-humidifying such old cigars. I obviously want to avoid having the wrappers split or anything...

I’d use Boveda packs and do a progression:

4 months at 58rH

4 months at 62rH

Then indefinitely at 65rH

I’d try one at the 8 months point

[samanderson]

10 hours ago, Fugu said:

Most important: go slow.

You may check their actual moisture first by putting the whole box in a bag (clear Ziplock or the like) adding one or two (functional) hygrometers. Keep temperature constant and wait for stabilization of the RH reading. Important: test temperature needs to be kept absolutely constant for accurate results.

Thanks Fugu - I'll check their humidity that way.

7 hours ago, Buck14 said:

I’d use Boveda packs and do a progression:

4 months at 58rH

4 months at 62rH

Then indefinitely at 65rH

I’d try one at the 8 months point

That sounds pretty safe, Buck. Cheers!