White spots - First box of Cubans (mold?)

[MAJ]

Hello everyone, first post here... 

While traveling, I purchased my first 2 boxes of Monte no4’s from a LCDH on 12/9/17. I opened them today to find this....

These boxes have a “OBM JUL 16” stamp.

I’m guessing it’s mold... any opinions? Should I contact the LCDH? I haven’t put these into my main humidor yet, as I don’t want to spread potential mold.

 

Thanks for the insight. 

MAJ

[ElPuro]

Yes. Wipe off and store properly. Only a concern if in the foot.

[BarryNY]

Have seen mold from LCDH....as ElPuro says....just wipe it off and you'll be fine...

NEVER seen mold from a FOH box........

[Philc2001]

Mold is nothing uncommon on cigars, just wipe and smoke. If you store them in proper conditions it should be fine and won't return.

6 minutes ago, ElPuro said:

Only a concern if in the foot.

This is not the first I've heard this, and I don't mean any kind of disrespect to you ElPuro, but I'm confused why there is this widespread fear of mold on the foot of a cigar?

Cigars burn at over 1000DF,  which effectively turns anything organic into carbon almost instantly, whether that organic matter is the tobacco leaf itself, or mold spores on top of the wrapper tobacco, or mold inside the cigar. I don't see how it matters much whether the mold is on the foot or on the wrapper, it all burns and all gets inhaled through the cigar one way or the other. For that matter, even eating the mold spores likely has no effect on human health beyond some indigestion (if that), so what is the fear of mold on the foot of a cigar based on?

Like most molds, I have observed that cigar mold tends to form on exposed surfaces where air can easily get to it. When a loaf of bread goes bad, you don't usually find mold inside the bread, or even between slices that are tightly together, it usually is found on the outside surfaces. I suspect the same thing happens with tobacco bunched up tightly in the cigar. Just because there is some minor traces of surface mold, I don't think there is any significant risk of mold growing inside the cigar, so I just don't see how mold could get far beyond the tip unless the overall cigar is totally consumed in mold. Even if mold infects the foot, why can't you just cut a little of the foot off?

I am not connecting the scientific dots on this, please help me understand. 

 

 

[Philc2001]

4 minutes ago, BarryNY said:

NEVER seen mold from a FOH box........

Only on tubos;  the Monte tubos and Bolivar #1 tubos had mold. My guess is cigars go into the tubos when they are still damp from the factory, so don't get to dry off sufficiently before being sealed in the tubes. But otherwise I have not seen any mold on FOH boxes.

[oliverdst]

A one year box storage in a LCDH and already molding is concerning.

[BarryNY]

Just now, Philc2001 said:

Only on tubos;  the Monte tubos and Bolivar #1 tubos had mold. My guess is cigars go into the tubos when they are still damp from the factory, so don't get to dry off sufficiently before being sealed in the tubes. But otherwise I have not seen any mold on FOH boxes.

Ahhhh...Tubos....I always store them in the humi with their tops off to avoid growing mold inside PLUS...the cedar sheet inside gets to be the same RH% as your humi and when you need to grab one quick on the go - you just pop the top back on and you have a mini travel humi at your preferred RH% for a good part of the day...

[ElPuro]

It's about inhaling the mold before it is burned up...you could suck in mold spores before the fire can reach it. While you suck in smoke from the end of the stick, you can suck in mold from further down the stick, too.

6 minutes ago, Philc2001 said:

Mold is nothing uncommon on cigars, just wipe and smoke. If you store them in proper conditions it should be fine and won't return.

This is not the first I've heard this, and I don't mean any kind of disrespect to you ElPuro, but I'm confused why there is this widespread fear of mold on the foot of a cigar?

Cigars burn at over 1000DF,  which effectively turns anything organic into carbon almost instantly, whether that organic matter is the tobacco leaf itself, or mold spores on top of the wrapper tobacco, or mold inside the cigar. I don't see how it matters much whether the mold is on the foot or on the wrapper, it all burns and all gets inhaled through the cigar one way or the other. For that matter, even eating the mold spores likely has no effect on human health beyond some indigestion (if that), so what is the fear of mold on the foot of a cigar based on?

Like most molds, I have observed that cigar mold tends to form on exposed surfaces where air can easily get to it. When a loaf of bread goes bad, you don't usually find mold inside the bread, or even between slices that are tightly together, it usually is found on the outside surfaces. I suspect the same thing happens with tobacco bunched up tightly in the cigar. Just because there is some minor traces of surface mold, I don't think there is any significant risk of mold growing inside the cigar, so I just don't see how mold could get far beyond the tip unless the overall cigar is totally consumed in mold. Even if mold infects the foot, why can't you just cut a little of the foot off?

I am not connecting the scientific dots on this, please help me understand. 

 

 

 

[Philc2001]

1 minute ago, ElPuro said:

It's about inhaling the mold before it is burned up...you could suck in mold spores before the fire can reach it. While you suck in smoke from the end of the stick, you can suck in mold from further down the stick, too.

It sounds rather unlikely given the distance is would travel through the cigar to get to your mouth. But suppose it did, what then? Would that kill you? Or get you high? 

I've unknowingly eaten moldy breads, yogurt and other spoiled foods several times in my lifetime, but thankfully I've lived through it, and beyond being grossed out by it I haven't felt any worse. Of course I don't inhale cigar smoke, but I suppose it is possible to inhale some mold spores, but what would that do?

[shlomo]

Every cigar retailer on the planet has mould on some cigars. Including our host.

El Puro's first answer is all you need.

[MAJ]

Thanks for the help every one. 

 

I planned on aging one box untouched for at least 2-3 years... my only concerns are mold spreading to the rest of my collection..

would it be advisable to try and return these to the LCDH for a replacement? Or just push forward as is?

[JamesKPolkEsq]

1 hour ago, Philc2001 said:

Mold is nothing uncommon on cigars, just wipe and smoke. If you store them in proper conditions it should be fine and won't return.

This is not the first I've heard this, and I don't mean any kind of disrespect to you ElPuro, but I'm confused why there is this widespread fear of mold on the foot of a cigar?

Cigars burn at over 1000DF,  which effectively turns anything organic into carbon almost instantly, whether that organic matter is the tobacco leaf itself, or mold spores on top of the wrapper tobacco, or mold inside the cigar. I don't see how it matters much whether the mold is on the foot or on the wrapper, it all burns and all gets inhaled through the cigar one way or the other. For that matter, even eating the mold spores likely has no effect on human health beyond some indigestion (if that), so what is the fear of mold on the foot of a cigar based on?

Like most molds, I have observed that cigar mold tends to form on exposed surfaces where air can easily get to it. When a loaf of bread goes bad, you don't usually find mold inside the bread, or even between slices that are tightly together, it usually is found on the outside surfaces. I suspect the same thing happens with tobacco bunched up tightly in the cigar. Just because there is some minor traces of surface mold, I don't think there is any significant risk of mold growing inside the cigar, so I just don't see how mold could get far beyond the tip unless the overall cigar is totally consumed in mold. Even if mold infects the foot, why can't you just cut a little of the foot off?

I am not connecting the scientific dots on this, please help me understand. 

 

 

Sure, mycotoxins likely (although not definitely) break down at 1000°F temps. But they don't break down completely.

When materials combust, they do not always combust completely (smoke coming off your cigar is not simply CO2 and H2O - you know this because neither of those things taste particularly strongly and neither are colored).

You might partially burn up the fungal components, but those partially combusted materials tend to be toxic. 

Additionally, if there is a significant mold incursion into the cigar, you may end up turning some of these compounds directly into vapor before the cherried end of the cigar actually touches the mold (as hot smoke travels through the cigar it heats up mold and can aerosolize the compounds present in the mold).

Mold is of particular concern, since many mycotoxins are extremely toxic at low levels and you don't have any idea how much you might be ingesting.

[GotaCohiba]

You may want to ensure that these aren’t overly humidified or you’ll most likely have the same issue the next time you open the boxes

 

[luv2fly]

31 minutes ago, MAJ said:

Thanks for the help every one. 

 

I planned on aging one box untouched for at least 2-3 years... my only concerns are mold spreading to the rest of my collection..

would it be advisable to try and return these to the LCDH for a replacement? Or just push forward as is?

There are mold spores on cigars and just about everything else.  You want to keep them from growing.  That means proper storage.

Wipe them off and store properly.  Your other cigars will not “catch” mold like one would catch a cold.

[CaptainQuintero]

Yeah just wipe off, you're going to get big spikes and drops in temperature and humidity when a box travels around the world, it's nothing to worry about.

Mould will only spread in the right conditions, essentially as long as your storage is below 70% Rh you shouldn't really run into any issues

[Fugu]

2 hours ago, Philc2001 said:

it usually is found on the outside surfaces. I suspect the same thing happens with tobacco bunched up tightly in the cigar. Just because there is some minor traces of surface mold, I don't think there is any significant risk of mold growing inside the cigar

Will also grow inside to a certain extent (as it does within bread for that matter), but conidiophores will only appear on the surface (wouldn't make much sense to release spores to the inside... ). But basically you are spot on here, Phil. It's also my take that it's pretty irrelevant to the smoker whether mold will be found on the foot. Light up and smoke away.

Like I always say - if one is concerned by any health issue deriving from that....one really shouldn't be smoking in the first place...

[MAJ]

My Humidity is maintained with Boveda’s 65% packs in my 200ct humidor. RH hold from 63%-66%, with temps 64-67F

[mkz]

If its only white mold: wipe off and smoke them in good health.

Personally I´ve never seen any issue with smoking a cigar with a fuzzy foot. Then again my lungs might be full of mold spores... 

 

[Smallclub]

4 hours ago, MAJ said:

would it be advisable to try and return these to the LCDH for a replacement?

If you want them to have a good laugh that's the thing to do… Again, mold can be found at every habanos retailer in the world, from the tiny shops in Spain to the most luxurious outlets in Switzerland or UK…

[MAJ]

21 minutes ago, Smallclub said:

If you want them to have a good laugh that's the thing to do… Again, mold can be found at every habanos retailer in the world, from the tiny shops in Spain to the most luxurious outlets in Switzerland or UK…

Contacted them today... they offered full replacement of both boxes, no questions asked. 

[Smallclub]

1 hour ago, MAJ said:

Contacted them today... they offered full replacement of both boxes, no questions asked. 

I don't want to be too picky, but why didn't you opened those boxes in the shop? And do you realize that everyone in this thread is telling you that you actually don't have a problem?

[ShortFatHokie]

7 hours ago, BarryNY said:

NEVER seen mold from a FOH box........

I got a box of Upmann Connie No. 1 from FOH that had mold a few years back...

[El Presidente]

1 hour ago, MAJ said:

Contacted them today... they offered full replacement of both boxes, no questions asked. 

That is seriously very generous of them. 

A visible spot of mould would be found in 40% of their boxes. Mould is everywhere. it is on all of your boxes, it is on your skin. it is just not always visible. 

[El Presidente]

7 hours ago, BarryNY said:

Have seen mold from LCDH....as ElPuro says....just wipe it off and you'll be fine...

NEVER seen mold from a FOH box........

we see it all the time. moreso on fresh stock just in.  The lads in logistics would gently wipe it off 99% of the time. 

[TheGipper]

7 hours ago, Philc2001 said:

Cigars burn at over 1000DF,  which effectively turns anything organic into carbon almost instantly, whether that organic matter is the tobacco leaf itself, or mold spores on top of the wrapper tobacco, or mold inside the cigar. I don't see how it matters much whether the mold is on the foot or on the wrapper, it all burns and all gets inhaled through the cigar one way or the other. For that matter, even eating the mold spores likely has no effect on human health beyond some indigestion (if that), so what is the fear of mold on the foot of a cigar based on?

He's completely right ya know...

Low levels of mold spores are *everywhere*.  And we all inhale some every day.  It's only extremely high levels with long term exposure that cause health issues.

Besides, ya'll aren't inhaling cigar smoke (into your lungs) are you?