Ashes 2017

[JohnS]

And so we come to that time of year where Cricket dominates the sporting airwaves during the summer months. The "Ashes" is a Test Cricket rivalry that dates back to the beginning of the game at an organised level in 1877 between England and Australia. Strangely, this year the hype hasn't been quite the same, perhaps due to the Rugby League World Cup and Australia's very recent qualification for the Football World Cup in Russia 2018 or perhaps because England has some new batsmen who are yet to develop a reputation in the game.

Tomorrow, the Australian team for the First test in Brisbane next week is set to be announced, however details have been leaked to the public early, with some surprises. Firstly, Peter Nevill will not be recalled as wicketkeeper, rather Tim Paine will return after 6 years out due mainly to injuries. Cameron Bancroft has been in great form and deserves his chance but unbelievably Shaun Marsh is set to be recalled at No.6. This last selection smacks of desperation because Marsh has been tried and tested before and he has shown in his career that he is too inconsistent for Test Cricket. The Australian Test team for the first two tests is listed below...

Australia Ashes squad: (possible) Steven Smith (capt), David Warner, Cameron Bancroft, Usman Khawaja, Peter Handscomb, Shaun Marsh, Tim Paine, Mitchell Starc, Pat Cummins, Nathan Lyon, Josh Hazlewood, Jackson Bird

Let's see if Shaun Marsh lasts more than two tests.

Source: http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/the-ashes/ashes-2017-peter-nevill-snubbed-from-shock-australian-lineup-for-first-test-20171116-gzmzl1.html

http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/21432475/tim-paine-make-unexpected-australia-return

[Ken Gargett]

john, saw that leaked team. so utterly disgusted with the brain dead moronic gibbering idiots we have as selectors - hohns, waugh, lehmann and chappell who might have been decent cricketers but who seem to have not a clue - that i'm thinking i won't even bother going. probably will go day one, i guess, but not sure after that.

how can they be so utterly clueless? i know renshaw out of form but the kid was born to play test cricket. so let's crap all over his confidence and dump him. bancroft certainly deserves a spot and they have been after a keeper/batsman - i'd go with the best keeper but i know that these days all teams want the next gilly. but in bancroft, certainly a quality batsman as keeper. and as someone who used to be a keeper/opening bat (much, much lower standard, of course), i can understand that but it is putting a lot on a bloke to come in and play both roles in tests. so bancroft at 6 or 7 (as keeper) is ideal. not these morons. let's dump renshaw but then yet again we recycle shaun marsh. because he got one fifty this year in six innings? i know his dad is a close mate of the selectors but that is such an abysmal selection that these imbeciles should be jailed. time after time he comes in and every time, he ends up failing. surely even these incompetent cretins can see that?

but the cherry on top? tim paine. not a bad selection a decade ago but they missed their chance. now we have a bloke brought in to be the keeper/batsman and he is effectively neither. he is about to turn 33 so hardly a selection for the future. his batting average over the last four years is 19. christ, you could knick that many. why not nevill? he averaged nearly 70 last year so his batting is more than acceptable. a far better keeper. our last two top keepers, healy and gilly, who have some idea about keeping have both backed nevill. not for our buffoons.

so how is paine keeping at the moment. not even christ himself knows. because he isn't. he has only made a shield side for one game this year (and that was tassie, who are pretty dismal) and in that, he was considered not good enough to keep. rather he was behind wade - the current dill and a bloke keeping so badly he has to be replaced - and did not keep. and yet our boneheaded muppet selectors went for him.

in american football terms, that would be like suddenly selecting rex grossman for the pro bowl but as a linebacker.

i see former player stuart mcgill, who is no fool, has described the panel as morons masquerading mentors. another described recalling marsh as akin to a criminal act.

i cannot ever remember being so utterly disgusted by such dullards as our selectors. it is truly impossible to imagine i will ever have the slightest respect for any of them ever again.

[Bill Hayes]

Geez, I hope we bowl well because we're going to have to with that line up.

[JohnS]

I saw Hazlewood, Starc and Cummins bowl at Hurstville Oval for NSW against WA a few weeks ago and they were very, very good. Starc might have taken two hat-tricks in that game, an incredibly rare feat, but Hazlewood was the outstanding bowler in that game. I expect him to be the best bowler for both sides in this Ashes contest.

In regards to selections, at least these guys are one test closer to getting the sack because this team for the GABBA test is abysmal. Seriously, is Mitchell Marsh on his way to getting a recall next?

[jay8354]

I have no clue on Aussie Cricket, especially the recent teams.

All I can go by is my un-informed option, take it with a large pinch of salt.

The selectors have no clue on what is needed, they keep bringing back members that should not be on the team. While they are very experienced at this level of cricket, I don't believe that if they are not in the best form compared to everyone at the moment, they should not be in the team. This was shown previously when large numbers of the team were so past their prime that we lost the momentum and had to blood new guys.

Steve Smith is a great captain but he can make some stupid decisions during play. Also, at times, he makes unpopular decisions with his team and the general public. He just rubs me the wrong way.

But like I said, what do I know.

 

[Fuzz]

31 minutes ago, jay8354 said:

But like I said, what do I know.

 

A touch more than the selectors.

[hedgeybaby]

Doesn't matter who you lot pick, it's going to be a humiliating trip down under for us.

[Ken Gargett]

good article on the incompetency and stupidity of the selectors.

 

Fear of an Ashes loss gets Australia’s selectors spooked

Geoff Lemon

The squad for the first two Tests has prompted criticism but the problem isn’t decisions made. It’s the spurious justifications given

 

Saturday 18 November 2017 08.00 AEDT Last modified on Saturday 18 November 2017 08.02 AEDT

One of sport’s great passions is raging at selectors. It’s not a job that wins praise. But something is more deeply awry on the Australian panel than disagreement, a malaise that has persisted through changes of personnel.

The problem isn’t decisions made. It’s the spurious justifications given. It’s the complete lack of any coherent policy, core belief or overarching rationale. The reasons given for one selection vanish for another. Principles committed to in one case are abandoned. Panel members pick whoever they feel like, then invent a reason, building arguments so flimsy that a Big Bad Wolf would only need to give a meaningful look.

 

This Ashes side mostly could have picked itself. Only the wicketkeeper was an obvious flaw. Of the other two changes, you can make an argument for dropping Matt Renshaw due to Cameron Bancroft’s eye-catching run. You can counter-argue that Renshaw’s last Test innings in Australia was 184, he played important knocks on tough Asian tours, and that quiet domestic games to start the home season are largely irrelevant.

That is fair discussion. The hypocrisy starts once the call is made. “We would like him to go back to first-class cricket and push his name forward with the selection panel through big runs,” said Hohns, though his panel has spent years ignoring others who’ve done the same.

At the same time as saying domestic results matter, the panel picked Tim Paine. Australia needed an in-form wicketkeeper who could remedy a shortage of runs from Matthew Wade. Paine has kept wicket in exactly three games for Tasmania the past two seasons, and has made one first-class century in a 12-year career.

 

He has been desperately unlucky with injury, and it will be a great story if he can take this chance. That doesn’t mean there was logic in the pick. The selectors used the fig leaf of two recent half-centuries – one in a net for England’s bowlers as they took apart a youth team, another as Tasmania piled on declaration runs against Victoria. Ironically, Tasmania only delayed the declaration in the hope of getting Wade a final hit, but Paine never got out.

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The greatest morass of nonsense, as ever, came with picking Shaun Marsh to replace Glenn Maxwell at No6. Call him the Selectors’ Cat – Marsh is already up to life number eight.

To be fair, Marsh played a couple of top innings in India, then was left out for Bangladesh. There have been times when he hasn’t deserved to be dropped, but there hasn’t been a time when he has deserved to be picked. Said selectors, he’s “playing very well at the moment, having scored consistently in the JLT One-Day Cup and first three rounds of the JLT Sheffield Shield competition”.

Marsh made a hundred and three fifties in the one-day stuff. So did George Bailey. Marsh made three fifties in the Shield, Bailey made 106 and 59 in his last outing. Callum Ferguson followed an unbeaten 182 with 88 in whites, having piled up 50-over runs. Half a dozen others were in similar nick.

 

Ed Cowan didn’t get the chance to try. The top Shield run-scorer in the country over the past three seasons was ordered out of the New South Wales side by Australian captain Steve Smith. Younger players were a chance for a Test gig, was Smith’s acknowledgement, but never Cowan. Likewise, Victoria ditched Cameron White, while an unwanted Michael Klinger left Perth to play in the Bangladesh Premier League.

Cowan and Bailey are 35, White 34, Klinger 37, Ferguson 32. None were ever in the frame, seen as has-beens whose chance has gone. Yet the new Test No6 is 34, and his chances never end. For Marsh, selectors will ignore his age and point to his state form. For any other, they’ll point to his age and ignore his runs.

Poor old Maxwell. The incumbent, with a fighting maiden century in India earlier this year. To Marsh’s three Shield fifties, Maxwell made two and a 45 not out, grinding a draw from 115 balls to show the versatility requested. Aged 29, one of the most talented ball-strikers of a generation has never played a home Test.

This is a criminal waste, on the pitches that produce his best cricket. It was a waste last summer, when the spot was handed to a struggling Nic Maddinson, then on to gut-feeling choice Hilton Cartwright. This summer, it’s another waste by handing it to a player about whom nothing more can be learned.

It looks like the fear of an Ashes loss got Australia’s selectors spooked. If my career relied on Shaun Marsh’s batting, I’d be worried, but he’s seen as a safe pick while Maxwell is a risk. But whatever the reasoning, it’s never adequately explained.

People don’t like being misled. What we keep getting is a lack of transparency, a lack of accountability and a mentality of jobs for the old boys. It doesn’t just annoy fans, it messes with the lives of players. Careers stutter and sputter out, as old boys look after the new. But the very existence of boys’ clubs is under threat. The world is changing: gradually in the main, then with occasional rushes of subsidence. You can’t beat erosion. You can only move ahead of the fall.

[JohnS]

Great article Ken. It goes into detail in regards to the other non-selections and it does it concisely.

[Ken Gargett]

28 minutes ago, JohnS said:

Great article Ken. It goes into detail in regards to the other non-selections and it does it concisely.

john, there is another terrific cricket article in this morning's guardian online worth reading.

a chat between vic marks and matthew engels about touring australia. really enjoyable read (had to laugh, one of the comments mentions an old mate of mine, ian greig, as the "next ian botham").

[hedgeybaby]

The Grauniad article Ken mentioned:  https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/nov/17/ashes-1982-shared-memories-matthew-engel-vic-marks

 

[PigFish]

... to think, I thought this was a cigar thread!!! -Piggy

[Ferrero]

I personally love George Bailey as a cricketer. He's just an excitable guy to have around, especially in the field and you can tell how much he enjoys the game. Even if he doesn't make any runs, I think that's worth more to AUS than the very little that Marsh will contribute. There's way too much bad blood with the AUS supporters and Marsh, it's toxic.

How Ed Cowan misses out for NSW and AUS is bemusing. He too is a far better option than Marsh and only one year older... the fact that they are using that as reasoning is hypocrisy.

I won't even go into Tim Paine's selection.

Either way, I'm an England supporter so hopefully the selection will bite AUS on the bum.

[JohnS]

George Bailey has been in excellent form in the Sheffield Shield but was not even considered. He would have been a much better replacemen at No.6 than Marsh.

[Ken Gargett]

1 hour ago, JohnS said:

George Bailey has been in excellent form in the Sheffield Shield but was not even considered. He would have been a much better replacemen at No.6 than Marsh.

so john, you think marsh will bat 6? i ask, as i have no idea. he is usually an opener or 3 but one assumes they have not brought in bancroft for 67, although perhaps they are that dumb. in which case they will have brought marsh in for renshaw. if so, then i wish all the selectors a slow and extremely painful death.

[JohnS]

Yes, believe it or not, I think the chief selector Trevor Hohns was quoted as saying that Marsh will bat 6 because as an opener in First-Class Shield Cricket this year he can handle the second new ball. Yes...that is the selectors thinking.

[JohnS]

Hold the press! Shaun Marsh may have niggled his back in training. Glenn Maxwell is on standby for the 1st test starting today!

http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/21508705/shaun-marsh-joins-david-warner-australia-injury-watch-list

[Ken Gargett]

John, that news has gone around. Currently in the queue awaiting for the gates to open in a few minutes 

[JohnS]

2 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said:

John, that news has gone around. Currently in the queue awaiting for the gates to open in a few minutes 

Wow...that's early! I'm elated you've been able to catch the test this year (at the Gabba).

[Ken Gargett]

Necessary if one wants to sit behind the bowlers’ arm. Little point going otherwise. Fortunately the Brizzy members is one of the few where you can do that. Never understood why other grounds don’t do the same. 

[JohnS]

Well England won the toss and will bat first. That's sensible. The Australian team is as expected.

[hedgeybaby]

Excited!

 

 

[hedgeybaby]

2 anthems???

 

[hedgeybaby]

Only 2.5 hours late for work this morning

Latest betting:

[JohnS]

You'd have to say that 4/196 is very even after day 1. It looks like a great batting wicket.