Min Ron Nee - Cigar Blends, Storage and other questions

[El Presidente]

1 hour ago, Philc2001 said:

In my mind, the process that starts after picking and before it reaches the rolling table seems to be where the Cubans have made the most significant changes over the past 20 years. I think the jury is still out on much of the process in terms of long term aging and smoking potential. There are many critics of these updates, claiming the Cubans have pushed the tobacco, so to speak, to make a more approachable and smokable product ready to smoke immediately from shipping date. I must admit that young production seems to smoke pretty well. The question still remains whether this generation of cigars will have the legs to achieve the greatness of cigars born in the 80's and 90's. 

In my experience, the concept of ageing cigars is not a construct that cubans themselves are overly familiar with.  Highly prized outside of Cuba but internally, most Cuban cigar smokers (those that smoke Habanos) would consider a three year old cigar as vintage 

[Sean3]

1 hour ago, JohnS said:

It's that sort of thread, isn't it. Fix yourself a long espresso, light up a Churchill or Double Corona and start at page 1!

[shortsqueeze]

10 hours ago, BrightonCorgi said:

I read some detailed articles on this like 15 years ago that inline with what you said and more, but for the life of me cannot find them online.

Habanos needs to promote the terrior in their cigar blends, not keep it a secret.  Bringing the consumer closer to the product and how it's made builds even stronger brand loyalty.  It's not like someone else can just set up in Cuba and start mimicking Montecristo.  How they ferment-cure leaves and where they leaves come from does not need to be a secret.  Just like it's not a secret for 1st Growth wines.

Very important point. It may take a while, but there is no doubt in my mind this is the future of premium cigars.

[Fugu]

On 22.11.2017 at 7:40 PM, Philc2001 said:

There are many critics of these updates, claiming the Cubans have pushed the tobacco, so to speak, to make a more approachable and smokable product ready to smoke immediately from shipping date.

First, I am not so sure as to whether these "changes" are really so substantial or even negative. Of course, Cuba has to constantly tune, twist and tweak processing in response to the characteristics of particular harvests (that including strain alterations). E.g. to mention just one example, new automated curing chambers may appear somehow artificial, giving away a bit of the artisanal romanticism of the barns. But (provided used decently and not just to speed-up the process) they potentially bring a much better control over the process with them, also making it independent of external weather conditions...

On 22.11.2017 at 7:40 PM, Philc2001 said:

I must admit that young production seems to smoke pretty well. The question still remains whether this generation of cigars will have the legs to achieve the greatness of cigars born in the 80's and 90's.

Second - if that is the case, and it is indeed hard to deny, then they certainly got something done right there, don't they? I am actually reluctant (sceptical) to see the link that is so often been made between improved approachability when young and a lack of longevity. But even if there were, then - storage and aging to me has never been for the sake of storage. If sticks are approachable earlier, (I) start smoking them earlier.

[Philc2001]

5 hours ago, Fugu said:

First, I am not so sure as to whether these "changes" are really so substantial or even negative. Of course, Cuba has to constantly tune, twist and tweak processing in response to the characteristics of particular harvests (that including strain alterations). E.g. to mention just one example, new automated curing chambers may appear somehow artificial, giving away a bit of the artisanal romanticism of the barns. But (provided used decently and not just to speed-up the process) they potentially bring a much better control over the process with them, also making it independent of external weather conditions...

 

Second - if that is the case, and it is indeed hard to deny, then they certainly got something done right there, don't they? I am actually reluctant (sceptical) to see the link that is so often been made between improved approachability when young and a lack of longevity. But even if there were, then - storage and aging to me has never been for the sake of storage. If sticks are approachable earlier, (I) start smoking them earlier.

I was not implying there is anything negative about it, only that there are critics of the changes. I personally believe manufacturing and production processes must evolve to compete. But there are some enthusiasts who seem to relish the folklore and artisan aspects, who feel the automation and changes are eroding the product rather than improving it.

Having cigars more approachable at young age is a positive as far as I’m concerned. But perhaps more important is quality and consistency of the product from box to box, year to year. That seems to be more challenging for Cuba than in other cigar producing countries.


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[PigFish]

1 hour ago, Fugu said:

First, I am not so sure as to whether these "changes" are really so substantial or even negative. Of course, Cuba has to constantly tune, twist and tweak processing in response to the characteristics of particular harvests (that including strain alterations). E.g. to mention just one example, new automated curing chambers may appear somehow artificial, giving away a bit of the artisanal romanticism of the barns. But (provided used decently and not just to speed-up the process) they potentially bring a much better control over the process with them, also making it independent of external weather conditions...

Second - if that is the case, and it is indeed hard to deny, then they certainly got something done right there, don't they? I am actually reluctant (sceptical) to see the link that is so often been made between improved approachability when young and a lack of longevity. But even if there were, then - storage and aging to me has never been for the sake of storage. If sticks are approachable earlier, (I) start smoking them earlier.

I would use controlled, consistent processes anytime I could. There is noting 'artisan' about poorly processed leaf and crappy cigars! -Piggy

[jazzboypro]

On 10/25/2017 at 11:45 PM, Ken Gargett said:

am i missing something? surely the bloke is entitled to answer the questions as he sees fit. no obligation on him to do otherwise? loved that first edition - my fave cigar book by a mile and full of information. it would be great to sit and chat with him but not answering questions for a bunch of complete strangers is up to him.

I somewhat agree with you but then again what's the point of giving an interview then ?

[Ken Gargett]

28 minutes ago, jazzboypro said:

I somewhat agree with you but then again what's the point of giving an interview then ?

i suspect he never really wanted to give an interview and did so under sufferance and hence what we got.

think of it as a bloke obviously not accomplished at interviews. simply answered honestly when he didn't want to say anything. now think of a squillion politicians every day. they'll be asked something they do not wish to answer. instead of being honest and saying they don't want to say anything, just watch -

"i'm very glad you asked that question"... and then prattle on about whatever they want to say.

or "i've already answered that"... when we know they haven't. and so on. which makes your comment about what is the point, spot on. what indeed?

we even had a premier in Qld years ago who had other tactics - and i swear this is true.

one time, "no, that is not the question you meant to ask. what you meant to ask was..." and then answered the question he wanted which had nothing to do with the original question. brilliant!

another occasion, he was asked something by a junior cadet reporter in a press conference (a perfectly innocuous question but one our premier did not want to answer). "stop the conference. stop the conference. cameras, please point at that man there. him. get him on screen. he is the person who wants to destroy democracy in our state." and while the poor mortified cadet tried to crawl underground, in full glare of the lights and cameras, our smiling premier just wandered back to his office.

if MRL is guilty of anything, it is simply of being unaware of interview techniques.

[jazzboypro]

42 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said:

i suspect he never really wanted to give an interview and did so under sufferance and hence what we got.

think of it as a bloke obviously not accomplished at interviews. simply answered honestly when he didn't want to say anything. now think of a squillion politicians every day. they'll be asked something they do not wish to answer. instead of being honest and saying they don't want to say anything, just watch -

"i'm very glad you asked that question"... and then prattle on about whatever they want to say.

or "i've already answered that"... when we know they haven't. and so on. which makes your comment about what is the point, spot on. what indeed?

we even had a premier in Qld years ago who had other tactics - and i swear this is true.

one time, "no, that is not the question you meant to ask. what you meant to ask was..." and then answered the question he wanted which had nothing to do with the original question. brilliant!

another occasion, he was asked something by a junior cadet reporter in a press conference (a perfectly innocuous question but one our premier did not want to answer). "stop the conference. stop the conference. cameras, please point at that man there. him. get him on screen. he is the person who wants to destroy democracy in our state." and while the poor mortified cadet tried to crawl underground, in full glare of the lights and cameras, our smiling premier just wandered back to his office.

if MRL is guilty of anything, it is simply of being unaware of interview techniques.

Not answering questions is expected from just about any politician