Min Ron Nee - Cigar Blends, Storage and other questions

[JohnS]

Cigar Blogger Robert Hebenstreit from montehiba.blogspot.co.at conducted an open poll last year with his readers to send questions to Min Ron Nee, the author of the famous Cigar Bible, "The Illustrated History of Post-Revolution Havana Cigars". Min Ron Nee's responses to these questions shed light on some topics we have discussed often on our forum such as changes in cigar blends and cigar storage, especially long-term storage. I must admit, I certainly found the combination of lower temperature and relative humidity conditions intriguing, and I welcome further discussion on the matter. Storage at lower temperatures is not uncommon, with Edward Sahakian keeping his humidor in his London Davidoff store at 12.5°C (in an interview with James Suckling a few years ago) and our host keeps his on-line humidor at 14°C (I believe).

I would like to thank Robert Hebenstreit for his permission to reprint this interview from his blog site at Montehiba Blog and I wish to request that your responses remain on-topic, considerate and thoughtful.

Below is the full Question and Answer Series with Min Ron Nee:

 

1)   If I may submit a question, it relates to the improved approachability of young Habanos ( say from 2013 onwards) versus older examples. Even brands such as Cohiba appear quite smokeable almost straight away, which does not appear to have been the case barely 5 years ago.

Could MRN provide his opinion as to how and why this has happened? Might this be by design, or rather a happy (or perhaps not so happy in the long run) accident?

Also of greater interest to me, is MRNs view of ageing potential of this recent Habanos ? Might this enhanced approachability now mean that these cigars have a shorter path to their peak ( and sharper decline?) than older leaf?

Apologies for such a non marca specific query. Though it appears to me that this issue seems to be impacting all marcas.

 

I know the answer to this question. But for all the sources who kindly provided me with all the information that I trust 100%, they would not like their names revealed. I could answer this question without naming my sources. But this is not ethical in my opinion.

 

2)   I just wanted to know , if you have single sticks of Cuban cigars and if so , how do you store them in your humidor ? I have seen things from " you should keep them divided by brand to you should group them all together " , I just wondered what's the best way to store my single Cuban cigars ? 

 

I store single sticks long term in Ziploc bags, 12°C. And at 55 to 60% relative humidity.

 

For single sticks that I wish to smoke, I remove the Ziploc bags, and store them at room temperature, 72% relative humidity, naked, in my cigar Eurocave for at least one month before I smoke them.

 

I always mix different marcas and different ages of cigars, long or short term. No harm done as far as I am concerned.

 

3)   The question on many lips: Any updates on the status of the 'The Book'?

I love my 1st edition to pieces (literally) and have been very eager to see what MRN has put together with modern tech and the insights gained in the past decade.

 

I am working on it. This is a very honest answer I can promise everyone. I do not set deadlines, as I am not obliged to.

 

4)   I'd like to start off by saying thank you for doing this
I have really enjoyed reading the first book and hope to delve into the second printing in the future
My question is as far as cuban cigars go have you seen a change in the profiles that you described in the first book
It seems to me that some of the cigars have had a bit of a change in their profile and wanted to get your opinion on the matter

 

Yes there is a big change. But it requires careful wordings to even try to explain this. Once I offend my sources, people will not talk.

 

5)   How do you deal with rarities which are sealed (e.g. sealed vintage boxes)? Do you open

them and if not how do you make sure that you have purchased cigars in impeccable condition?

 

I never open any sealed boxes to inspect. I have never encountered any problems with sealed boxes. Beetles cannot live within a sealed box, as fermentation would have consumed all oxygen available. No loss of flavours either.

 

In short, there is no gamble when you buy a sealed box blind. No worries.

 

6)   How do you decide when to open a vintage cigar box? I am a bit afraid to open such a box because it could be the best box in my life and I somehow want to keep „the magic“.

 

I open them for no reasons. No rules. Sorry if I appear to be “arrogant”, as I am spoilt for choices. I bought a lot back in the 1990’s when supply was abundant and prices were dirt-cheap.

 

7)   My question is about the aging potential (which is stated in years) in the Min Ron Nee book. How do you determine the years for each cigar? I guess it is driven by your personal long-term experience but are there any other possibilities?

 

For me it is quite hard to anticipate if a cigar has the potential to age 3, 5, 10 years or even longer. I am just able to evaluate if a cigar needs more aging time or not. At the beginning I have assumed that the aging potential of powerful cigars is higher vs. light cigars. But I can’t confirm that based on my experience. I see different developments for cigars which I smoke frequently (e.g. RASS). I have noticed differences in the vintages - similar to wine. I truly appreciate your thoughts in this matter.

 

Cigars are not wines. The year means nothing. The box date means the date the cigars were boxed, period. I am sorry to say that after 1995, there is no reliable way to determine the quality depending on the date code.

 

And by the way, “powerful” does not mean great aging potential. The matter is way more complicated than this.

 

For ALL pre-1995 cigars, all of them are smoking great now.

 

 

? How do you think about the future of cigars in the face of the tabbacco unfriendly environment?

 

This is a question I would pass. I never embarrass people in Cuba.

 

9)   Do you have favourites for you day to day smoke? If yes could you please name the top 3-5?

 

No I have no favourites. I smoke what I have. I do sincerely thank God for this, whoever He is. Or for the Karma accumulated by my Ancestors.

 

10)         How important is temperature for cigar storage? Many people in the cigar scene argue that a constant level of humidity is much more important than the temperature.

 

The short answer is: nobody knows.

 

For long-term aging, I store them like wine. 12°C. Mind you, there is no scientific evidence for this.

 

And at 55 to 60% relative humidity. High humidity seems to be much more damaging to cigars versus high temperature. But again mind you: this is a one man’s opinion based on one man’s experience.

 

11)         A lot of Aficionados / Vintage Cigar Dealers recommend to smoke Vintage Cigars which were stored at lower humidity. Could you please explain the reasons if you share the same opinion?

 

Low RH, i.e., 55 to 60%, is essential for aging. This has been scientifically proven, but I am afraid this needs a lot of words to explain. In the future second edition MRN book, that is, if there is one, I shall explain the science behind this in detail, and with quoted scientific papers.

 

 

12)         It is possible to revitalize dry stored cigars without losing quality? If yes – please share how to do it.

 

Yes. That is, for the quality still remaining. There is no way to improve an expired cigar due to prior bad storage.

 

For smoking, store them in a humidor at room temperature and 72% relative humidity, naked, for at least one month before smoking. Never rush this time frame.

 

For long-term aging, I store them inside a Ziploc bag.

 

I store cigars at temperature like wine. 12°C. 

 

For relative humidity, at 55 to 60% relative humidity. This RH is based on everyone’s experiences, and according to scientific researches that I have found.

 

13)         How has it developed that you have become a collector, passionate cigar smoker and book author?

 

Long story. I like to have a little bit of privacy.  

 

14)         I have read that there are a lot of seasoned cigar collectors / vintage cigar smokers in Hong Kong. Could you please explain why this is especially in HK the case? For example, London (where you can also find many experienced Aficionados) has a long history of tobacco.

 

Honestly I do not know. When I was born the sophisticated cigar culture is already here in Hong Kong. And I do not think this is due to British influence, as local Chinese people and British people did not mix in the old days, because of language problems I suppose.

 

 

15)         What was the initial idea to publish the cigar encyclopedia under a pseudonym? It is a great book and you could be very proud of it. From my point of view the majority of the cigar community is very open & friendly.

 

Long story involving many people. I think I’ll pass this question. 

 

 

[oliverdst]

This thread will be a bomb 

I will read It fully later.

[Fuzz]

Keep it civil or there will be time outs for offenders.

[Ginseng]

Seems like old times.

Wilkey

[Fugu]

1 hour ago, JohnS said:

and I wish to request that your responses remain on-topic, considerate and thoughtful.

1 hour ago, Fuzz said:

Keep it civil or there will be time outs for offenders.

 Why these disclaimers gents - anything controverisal in it?!.... 

 

(Thanks John for posting, that's great! Though the answer to the first question already makes me feel slightly .... )

[Iznogood]

Not very talkative guy, a lot of passed questions  

[JohnS]

8 minutes ago, Fugu said:

(Thanks John for posting, that's great! Though the answer to the first question already makes me feel slightly .... )

Many of us have been touting, for some time, that recent blends have made Habanos cigars more approachable young than in the 90s/early 2000s. But you've got to respect MRN for not offending his sources.

8 minutes ago, Iznogood said:

Not very talkative guy, a lot of passed questions  

Again, you've got to respect his wishes to not bring other people into his answers where he feels it's unwarranted. It's his prerogative I suppose.

[Fuzz]

15 minutes ago, Fugu said:

 Why these disclaimers gents - anything controverisal in it?!.... 

 

(Thanks John for posting, that's great! Though the answer to the first question already makes me feel slightly .... )

Just getting in before the smelly stuff hits the fan. Havanathon is this weekend and nobody wants to deal with that kind of crap now... or at any other time, for that matter.

[Akela3rd]

Fair play to him. It reads like he's being interviewed in a police station and is saying nothing til his rep turns up. "I know nuffin, it weren't me guv, never heard of him, got a light?" Etc etc.
Not that I have any experience of this, obviously.

Thunder & Lightening '75-'15

[Iznogood]

It was very strange to me that he do very opposite of "dry boxing" for cigars that he smokes. RH 72% month before.

[99call]

nice work John, 

Sad that he feels so censored. but I will say this.   I think everyone on here, is a slightly fascinated by Min Ron Nee, and his decorum and privacy are a key factor in this. 

In an age where 70% of society seem to have images of themselves half naked and vomiting into pot plants on social media, I have to say I think the world would be a much more pleasant place, if there were a few more people out there who were happy dodging the limelight, and happy to keep their own council. 

[BrightonCorgi]

I am not reading anything new he hasn't mentioned before many years ago.  Good to know there is consistency in his answers.  

[BrightonCorgi]

8 minutes ago, 99call said:

nice work John, 

Sad that he feels so censored. but I will say this.   I think everyone on here, is a slightly fascinated by Min Ron Nee, and his decorum and privacy are a key factor in this. 

You only have one shot at keeping things close to vest.

[Fugu]

32 minutes ago, Fuzz said:

Just getting in before the smelly stuff hits the fan. Havanathon is this weekend and nobody wants to deal with that kind of crap now... or at any other time, for that matter.

Was just kidding Fuzz, just kidding...

[Fugu]

Now, after full reading - very little info or very little new information here. In particular as he refuses to address the truly interesting questions. And in my opinion any person who is not lazy-minded could have done so in a way without offending third persons or disclosing truly secret information.

I'd choose an interview of the great Simon Chase any day over this ... piece of information

[Corylax18]

No Comment. 

[Guest Nekhyludov]

Very interesting post. Thanks for sharing @JohnS! I agree there's not much substance in his answers, but it's certainly interesting to have a bit of a window into his thinking, however guarded he feels he needs to be.

I can't wait to see the impending dissertation refuting the 12°C/55%rh statement. I'm sure it's being feverishly drafted at this very moment ... 

[PapaDisco]

I too was fascinated by the 55F LT storage temp.  I guess the 60% rH is to compensate for that and keep H2O content in the cigars at some target level.  Whereas at my 65/65 the H2O content in the cigars is somewhat the same?  Or do we need to call El Grande Cornichon du Poisson to get the right answer on that?  

[Smallclub]

Err, wait…

"In the future second edition MRN book, that is, if there is one"

What happened to the $10 000 volume and its bamboo stand?

Anyway,

I guess many people will be surprised by the fact that MRN ages at 55% but smokes at 72%. I'll say, keep in mind that the man smokes mainly very old cigars, and in my experience very old cigars, at low humidity, burn way too fast and taste like paper…

[Fugu]

56 minutes ago, Nekhyludov said:

I can't wait to see the impending dissertation refuting the 12°C/55%rh statement. I'm sure it's being feverishly drafted at this very moment ... 

Absolutely not. This aspect is in fact about "aging" versus "preserving" cigars. If you'd want to preserve a cigar for the longest time possible, then you should - theoretically - bring the temperature down, slowing chemical processes, and preferably even reduce the action of oxygen (i.e. keep them sealed). This counteracts, or at least slows down, aging effects but also the usually desired maturing processes. At the same time you'd have to drastically reduce storage rH in order to not provide water activitites in the tobacco supportive of mould growth. Though this is "priced in" already to some extent in the relative nature of relative humidity with temperature, for the same rH-atmosphere tobacco is holding more water at lower temperatures compared to higher temps (see some of the many PigFish-threads about it). This holds in particular for instances where you seal off boxes and/or leave them untouched/unchecked for extended periods of time. So, this is pretty much in line with (widely?) accepted knowledge, and the particular application of which depends largely on what one has in mind doing with ones cigars.

Edited October 25, 2017 by Fugu
Removed my last para for not appearing personally criticising

[Nino]

1 hour ago, 99call said:

 I think everyone on here, is a slightly fascinated by Min Ron Nee, and his decorum and privacy are a key factor in this. 

In an age where 70% of society seem to have images of themselves half naked and vomiting into pot plants on social media, I have to say I think the world would be a much more pleasant place, if there were a few more people out there who were happy dodging the limelight, and happy to keep their own council. 

Well said.

MRN is a very kind, generous and inquisitive person and he will share his experience and knowledge, not just on cigars, happily face to face while smoking a good cigar or three for hours on end, he loves good conversation. But he hates the limelight.

As to why his replies were so short - maybe the questions were too easy and/or predictable.

The second edition is finished and ready to go. The decision to launch it and the launching date is his alone. He doesn't need the hoopla.
He might have a surprise book next year, might be the second edition, might be something else ...
 

[JR Kipling]

What's 'room temperature' in HK ?

[LLC]

It was very strange to me that he do very opposite of "dry boxing" for cigars that he smokes. RH 72% month before.

I believe this was his answer to how to revitalize a dry cigar. I did not take it as his normal practice.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Guest Nekhyludov]

My apologies @Fugu if the lament in my previous post was provocative. I've just grown weary of seeing every mention of temperature, rh, and/or the relationship between them devolve into page-long, data-driven diatribes that usually end in criticisms of others' measurement tools or methodology. It's tiresome.

But I do apologize for bringing it up. Best to let it lie.

[Smallclub]

6 minutes ago, LLC said:

I believe this was his answer to how to revitalize a dry cigar. I did not take it as his normal practice.
 

No, it is his normal practice. His cigars are old, thus not hygroscopic, and he smokes them after they stayed in his 72% humidor.