Little Help

[AVIDFLYER]

I'd consider myself a experienced cigar smoker, 20 plus years and a somewhat bigger collector.  Been slammed with work and flying this year so haven't had a ton of time to figure out the problem BUT everything I have taste like shit.... I have 3 good size converted wine chiller/coolers and no matter where the stick comes from its very harsh and taste terrible.  Yes and I do finish them but its been a big problem the last year.  Buddies in my group that are experienced smokers don't see it as much as I do but one of them is a pretty religious Opus smoker so well throw his opinion out. 

 

SOOO I think the problem is humidity (to wet...no mold no bloom somewhat spongy.)  I bought all new gauges to put in the 3 boxes and they have been steady around 63-68 on the humidity and say 70-74 on temp mainly 73.  I know that as temp goes up humidity needs to come down.   I have been trying to do some dry boxing with so so results.  I got a box of P2's from Rob last month.  Let them set a week or 2 and wanted to try a fresh cigar and see how it compared....my god it was great...taste profile was what I remembered....  Revisted that box 2 weeks later and it was shit again....  So that leads me back to humidty.  Now I really havnt had much of a burn issue with the problem cigars....(just a FYI)

I store everything in original boxes, maybe storing the cigars in those size cabinets (20-30 plus boxes) with that high of RH they never really get a chance to dry out??  That's what I'm telling myself.  

I found a good deal on a Danielle Marshall  humidor (yes I think there overpriced) but got it for about 60 Percent off and there suppose to be one  of the best    SOO I'm going to get that regulated to about 60 percent humidity and use it for smokable storage.    

 

Any input....thoughts...Just me??

[PigFish]

... perhaps it is just the way you put it!

1 hour ago, AVIDFLYER said:

  I know that as temp goes up humidity needs to come down.

The way I read this, it is incorrect...

 

If every cigar you have tastes like crap, it is likely you...

The sponginess is a cause of percent moisture content being too high.

Let me ask you this. Has the ambient temp of your place (the mean) taken a turn recently. More specifically, has it gone down?

Without offense, many, many home built wine cooler humidors simply don't work... What works for another is not my job to define. However as a guy who knows what it takes to make one work, I feel that when someone asks about their cigars stored in a wine cooler humidor, I have a 'license' to reply.

Circulation in these projects is typically limited or nonexistent. Therefore, readings from instruments may be way off the mark. Furthermore, I simply don't trust what many say they get as readings as they begin to describe the cigars.

So, taste like crap is pretty subjective. Are the cigars acrid...? Do they taste bitter and sour, a combination?

If you answer yes to the above, then it is likely not you and your storage. Frankly, if you don't have mold today, it may be on its way...

While I am guessing... I figure your ambient temps have fallen and your coolers have had a change in cycle rate. You are looking at instruments that are isolated, and if you plow around the back of your coolers, you may actually have cigars that are suffering even further. This assumes that you actually run the coolers.

Best of luck on your projects... 

Welcome (back) to the forum! -Piggy

[SloppyJ]

You had me at "X-ref" Pig! Fellow CAD user here specifically Civil3D. Nice video, thank you for sharing. 

As a related question, what do you typically find is off in the RH and temperature measurements as it relates to wineadors. It seems from your post that you believe the % moisture content is too high for the OP and is common with wineador setups. Also from your post, you point out the lack of circulation. Does that relate to inaccurate RH measurements when it comes to wineadors? 

I'm asking because, like many others, my storage is in a wineador. I'm newer to the game but I like to make informed decisions. I clearly have an issue keeping consistency in my wineador from the top to the bottom based on my two hygrometers. If I wanted to make an experiment, i could setup a tupperware container left out at ambient temp while doing my best to match the RH that's found in my wineador. That would likely be about 10°F to 15°F higher than in the cooler. If I shouldn't trust the RH readings I'm getting out of my wineador then my variables keep growing. 

Either way, I think it might be worth the effort to set something up like that and work backwards into the wineador to address any issues that I may or may not have. Hell, I might even unplug it. Before I do that, I'd want to try a small scale tupperware storage system to see how it affects the cigars.

[Fugu]

I don't think it is humidity, as the storage range specified by you (provided readings correct) and you saying that you're not facing any burn issues whatsoever, wouldn't tell me there is a moisture problem. Are your sticks burning hot, going out unless you increase your cadence of drawing?

An elevated moisture may cause burn issues and make a cigar taste less good, sometimes even poor - but all tasting "like shit"?!

You say, you are smashed with work and don't have much time. Is it possible that you are just smoking in a haste?

[vladdraq]

6 minutes ago, Fugu said:

. Is it possible that you are just smoking in a haste?

A1 for this, most of the time is the issue.

[JamesKPolkEsq]

2 hours ago, AVIDFLYER said:

I'd consider myself a experienced cigar smoker, 20 plus years and a somewhat bigger collector.  Been slammed with work and flying this year so haven't had a ton of time to figure out the problem BUT everything I have taste like shit.... I have 3 good size converted wine chiller/coolers and no matter where the stick comes from its very harsh and taste terrible.  Yes and I do finish them but its been a big problem the last year.  Buddies in my group that are experienced smokers don't see it as much as I do but one of them is a pretty religious Opus smoker so well throw his opinion out. 

 

SOOO I think the problem is humidity (to wet...no mold no bloom somewhat spongy.)  I bought all new gauges to put in the 3 boxes and they have been steady around 63-68 on the humidity and say 70-74 on temp mainly 73.  I know that as temp goes up humidity needs to come down.   I have been trying to do some dry boxing with so so results.  I got a box of P2's from Rob last month.  Let them set a week or 2 and wanted to try a fresh cigar and see how it compared....my god it was great...taste profile was what I remembered....  Revisted that box 2 weeks later and it was shit again....  So that leads me back to humidty.  Now I really havnt had much of a burn issue with the problem cigars....(just a FYI)

I store everything in original boxes, maybe storing the cigars in those size cabinets (20-30 plus boxes) with that high of RH they never really get a chance to dry out??  That's what I'm telling myself.  

I found a good deal on a Danielle Marshall  humidor (yes I think there overpriced) but got it for about 60 Percent off and there suppose to be one  of the best    SOO I'm going to get that regulated to about 60 percent humidity and use it for smokable storage.    

 

Any input....thoughts...Just me??

Great read from Steve Saka about moisture content in cigars:

https://www.reddit.com/r/cigars/comments/3ux77b/comment/cxmkwm3

He focuses on absolute moisture content, which absolutely is temperature dependent.

Respectfully, I would try a Satellite humidor with a 62% Boveda, let some of your old favorites hang out in there for a month and try again. 

 

[cfc1016]

I have a small 6 bottle wine cooler that I use for storing my 'soon to be smoked' cigars. I keep the humidity in there between 60-62% and temp fluctuates between 62-64F, with the unit set to 62F. I rip the tops off of dress boxes and keep the cigars in those. I move them around from time to time, within their respective boxes, as well. Only one box per shelf - the original metal shelves. I use dry KL to keep the humidity DOWN - It's really humid where I live, no matter what I do.

I had the unit stacked to the gills with intact boxes at once, after receipt of a delivery, and my RH shot up fast. I speculate that the overfilling of the wineador diminished the circulation provided by the wee fan that the unit uses to cool itself. I switched back to having more airspace than not, and it quickly restabilized. I keep the boxes atleast a few inches away from the circulation fan and intakes, and a few inches away from the door. This way there's a clear unobstructed airspace on all sides of each box. Cigars that I keep in my standard cedar box humidor (from the same box of cigars) will underperform compared to those that I've kept in the wineador.

 

TLDR: Maybe you just don't have enough circulation?

ps you can disregard the readings on the hygro in the picture. I had had the unit open for a couple minutes and the readings were thrown off by the ambient conditions.

[zeedubbya]

Do you have wood shelves in the wine coolers . It's been my experience sometimes over long period of time there's a smell which even though it smells strongly like Spanish Cedar (I think it's actually the glue they use) which can permeate the cigars. While it smells pretty good, I think it makes them have a bitter note after long term storage. Just another suggestion. Hope this isn't the case for you as I have a few NCs which permanently have this bitterness. Good luck.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[AVIDFLYER]

Thanks for the replies,  I just put a Kestrel meter in my main humidor and let it set about 10 minutes.  Great meter I use it for long range shooting several hundred dollars so It should be spot on (hope so)  the reading I got was 62 rh 75 temp.  That would put me over the 12% range...according to the charter to the video.  I don't know what the ideal content would be sure it user preference/ taste.  but that seems very high  (guessing)

 

2 have Spanish cedar shelves the 3rd one does not. 

 

I do not run the cooling system in these the house is usually kept around 73-75   They all have small battery powered fans that kick on every 15 mins

[AVIDFLYER]

2 hours ago, PigFish said:

... perhaps it is just the way you put it!

The way I read this, it is incorrect...

 

If every cigar you have tastes like crap, it is likely you...

The sponginess is a cause of percent moisture content being too high.

Let me ask you this. Has the ambient temp of your place (the mean) taken a turn recently. More specifically, has it gone down?

Without offense, many, many home built wine cooler humidors simply don't work... What works for another is not my job to define. However as a guy who knows what it takes to make one work, I feel that when someone asks about their cigars stored in a wine cooler humidor, I have a 'license' to reply.

Circulation in these projects is typically limited or nonexistent. Therefore, readings from instruments may be way off the mark. Furthermore, I simply don't trust what many say they get as readings as they begin to describe the cigars.

So, taste like crap is pretty subjective. Are the cigars acrid...? Do they taste bitter and sour, a combination?

If you answer yes to the above, then it is likely not you and your storage. Frankly, if you don't have mold today, it may be on its way...

While I am guessing... I figure your ambient temps have fallen and your coolers have had a change in cycle rate. You are looking at instruments that are isolated, and if you plow around the back of your coolers, you may actually have cigars that are suffering even further. This assumes that you actually run the coolers.

Best of luck on your projects... 

Welcome (back) to the forum! -Piggy

Thanks for info very helpful.  Where do you like the content to be?  ( know its a personal preference)  I posted I just took readings with a kestrel and had 62RH with 75 temp   that would put me over 12 %    thanks

[cigcars]

   * Somewhere around 1999 or so I got it in my head to try calling directly the Daniel Marshal humidor company, since I was enamored with the thought of having one of my very own, but didn't have thousands to spare. I spoke with a really nice company spokesman as I asked if they might have something like a "scratch 'n dent" special on any of their humidors. And, VOILA'!  he made available for me a Daniel Marshal 150 count humidor that he sent me (AND filled with 25 Churchill size Daniel Marshal cigars!) for only $450! I considered that a real steal, considering that size usually ran $1,200+ and higher!  My best friend who was staying with me at the time, and hearing me over the phone getting that deal for $450, yelled from the other room: "THAT WOULD'VE FED A FAMILY FOR A MONTH!!"  And the humidor had absolutely NO visible "scratch" or "dent" on it at all that I could find!  I'm STILL happy as hell to this very day, and ONLY fill my Daniel Marshall humidor with what I know are authentic Habanas ( like the ones I get from the Czar), and only the best of the best NC's out here that I'll treat myself to: like Mitchell Orchant's Regius and  Warped cigars selections.

[PigFish]

On 10/12/2017 at 12:11 PM, AVIDFLYER said:

Thanks for info very helpful.  Where do you like the content to be?  ( know its a personal preference)  I posted I just took readings with a kestrel and had 62RH with 75 temp   that would put me over 12 %    thanks

Sorry about the delay in getting back to you on this. I have explained this so many times that I thought that I might make a brief video about it... So, that is what I did.

 

I hope this answers your questions. If not let me know!!! Cheers!

-Piggy

[AVIDFLYER]

5 hours ago, PigFish said:

Sorry about the delay in getting back to you on this. I have explained this so many times that I thought that I might make a brief video about it... So, that is what I did.

 

I hope this answers your questions. If not let me know!!! Cheers!

-Piggy

Great video thanks for taking the time.  I understand in full that the total content is a personal choice and why, how it can be disregarded.  but I was looking into it as a base line...which in my mind confirms (for what it's worth)  I have neglected it a little bit and its to high for at least my tastes.  I also see how it can and should be used as a baseline for a relationship between the 2, also what it takes to correct.  Next I'll have to see once I establish a new standard how long it will take the tobacco to reach that point.  Guess Ive just got lucky the last 20 yrs and never had an issue

[PigFish]

Lets face it, cigars are extremely forgiving... We have all been the benefactor of that fact.

It is an understatement that I am 'over the top' with this topic, but I can taste water in cigars and it tastes bad to me. I want the minimum water that I can keep without damage, or a high potential for damage in my cigars.

When one adheres to general guidelines he/she is successful at storing cigars. It is often when one attempts to force cigars into a desired environment far and away from their ambient that they get into trouble. This is where I provide the most advice. Storage affects condition and condition affects taste.

Cheers! -Piggy

[dageshi]

Just a thought, but perhaps you'd be best off putting a few cigars into a small tupperdore with a boveda pack at 65rh and see how they go.

[AVIDFLYER]

exactly thats why i bought the daniell marshall