Date codes

[jwrussell]

I expect this has been asked before, but I couldnt' find it. If it hasn't, then I have a suggestion to make. What are the chances of getting date codes posted up on the web site? I don't know about others, but they play a huge part in what I choose when I'm shopping and to be quite honest, I'm not always patient enough to wait for an answer via email....

Just a though?

[El Presidente]

To be honest, date codes without any idea of the quality of the box is as useless as **** on a bull.

Plenty of old stuff available which has been passed over by local clients. Listing date codes without commentary as to quality is best left to those who ship exclusively to the US market and do not give a rats ass.

[shrink]

» To be honest, date codes without any idea of the quality of the box is as

» useless as **** on a bull.

»

» Plenty of old stuff available which has been passed over by local clients.

» Listing date codes without commentary as to quality is best left to those

» who ship exclusively to the US market and do not give a rats ass.

Here, here, Rob! This is why your judgement is trusted around the globe. You only made one bad recommendation... those bloody godawful HdM Epi Especiales. Roo manure!

Gee, I read this and it worries me how much I am beginning to sound like Ken...

[Ken Gargett]

»

» Gee, I read this and it worries me how much I am beginning to sound like » Ken...

you are kidding, right? praise for rob sounds like me????

seems you've been smoking more than what rob sells or possibly he has more than one alias on this forum.

[guilow]

No need for a listing. These guys (Rob & Lisa) are so responsive. Just send an email and you'll get a response right away! I've used the chat functionality to get real time info from Lisa too. The only problem is that you have to wait until the evening from the U.S.

[wasch_24]

» To be honest, date codes without any idea of the quality of the box is as

» useless as **** on a bull.

»

» Plenty of old stuff available which has been passed over by local clients.

» Listing date codes without commentary as to quality is best left to those

» who ship exclusively to the US market and do not give a rats ass.

Why list a box and/or code for sale on the site if it is sub-par then? You don't list a quality rating or anything.

I know where JW is coming from on this point. If the codes were listed then customers in places other than Australia or a close time zone where chat is an option at the time of ordering may be more inclined to order first and wait for advice on the quality of the sticks later as opposed to ordering from another vendor with the information readily available so as to avoid an out of stock circumstance later.

Just my $.02 and not intended as a dig or anything like that.

[jwrussell]

Todd pretty much hit it on the head. I've requested info before Rob and I know that you will make your best honest recommendations and that is a huge bonus when considering vendors. But knowing what my choices are ahead of time help me when making decisions. The vendors I'm willing to deal with will all hold up their end of the bargain if the sticks turn out to be not of good quality. With you I know I'm going to know ahead of time and that's great. But either way, if I'm looking for something '02 or earlier (for example), it helps to know if where I'm looking even has anything for me to consider.

» » To be honest, date codes without any idea of the quality of the box is

» as

» » useless as **** on a bull.

» »

» » Plenty of old stuff available which has been passed over by local

» clients.

» » Listing date codes without commentary as to quality is best left to

» those

» » who ship exclusively to the US market and do not give a rats ass.

»

» Why list a box and/or code for sale on the site if it is sub-par then? You

» don't list a quality rating or anything.

»

» I know where JW is coming from on this point. If the codes were listed

» then customers in places other than Australia or a close time zone where

» chat is an option at the time of ordering may be more inclined to order

» first and wait for advice on the quality of the sticks later as opposed to

» ordering from another vendor with the information readily available so as

» to avoid an out of stock circumstance later.

»

» Just my $.02 and not intended as a dig or anything like that.

[El Presidente]

Todd.

I know where you and JW are coming from but the Date Code Dilemma is a thorn in my paw. Let me explain why.

Date Codes are a fascination for US citizens. I have never had a UK client/japanese client/Israeli client/Malaysian Client/Australian Client ever ask me for a date code before asking me about quality. US clients do it all the time.

I am sick and tired of having ignoramuses ask repeatedly for all the old stock without any question on quality. When I ask about what they are looking for I get "anything old..I don't care"

I DON"T CARE! That somes it up. What we have is a pissing competition in the US where Neville Nobodies compare their latest aged box acquisition.

What it has bred is a a whole new industry of aged fakes.

I love a client who asks about quality and then box age. To me it is the sign of a discerning buyer, a thinker, a lover with a passion for the leaf.

Just my 2 cents

[jay8354]

With the date codes, I have to agree with El Prez here (not often but this is an exception).

Just because something is older, does not make it any better.

See the Aged Vs Recent Productions post:

[link=]http://www.friendsofhabanos.com/board_entry.php?id=13056&page=0&category=all&order=last_answer&descasc=DESC[/link]

It helps that there are Older Aged Cigars available. However, it is like choosing between an aged no name bootle of wine and a great fresh bottle of Grange. No comparsion.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[argon345]

» Todd.

»

» I know where you and JW are coming from but the Date Code Dilemma is a

» thorn in my paw. Let me explain why.

»

» Date Codes are a fascination for US citizens. I have never had a UK

» client/japanese client/Israeli client/Malaysian Client/Australian Client

» ever ask me for a date code before asking me about quality. US clients do

» it all the time.

»

» I am sick and tired of having ignoramuses ask repeatedly for all the old

» stock without any question on quality. When I ask about what they are

» looking for I get "anything old..I don't care"

»

» I DON"T CARE! That somes it up. What we have is a pissing competition in

» the US where Neville Nobodies compare their latest aged box acquisition.

»

» What it has bred is a a whole new industry of aged fakes.

»

» I love a client who asks about quality and then box age. To me it is the

» sign of a discerning buyer, a thinker, a lover with a passion for the

» leaf.

»

» Just my 2 cents

Hey Rob, thanks for the vent session!! I'm not afraid to admit I’m always asking for the oldest box you've got. Perhaps I should rethink how I go about picking my orders!! There seems to be a general consensus here in the US that older is always better, but I can see that will not always be true. I don't think you would ever steer anyone wrong, but who's to say that a box a couple of years younger might be smoking just fantastic while one you've got that’s a couple years older is just not as good. I will be sure to keep this in mind from now on!!! Thanks again Rob!!!

[El Presidente]

Don't get me wrong...age is an important factor.

But follow my thinking here:

1. A 24 month box of superb RASS is a better buy than a 4 year old box of crap RASS? Crap in Crap out. Bad cigars do not turn into good ones.

2. Talk top tier dealers world wide....they all have a huge retail following. If they have a successfull business with plenty of private clients.....how do they manage to keep aged RASS? It is AGED for two reasons only....A) it has been passed over by locals or The dealer has purposely set it aside for aging. I only know 2 dealers worldwide that did this (with Habanos).

There is aged stock out there....but as a rule they are either:

***Less popular vitola and marques.

***If popular then there is a price premium and small quantities.

***They are Aged fakes.

As an example, I was offered 96 R&J CHurchill back in November (a mastercase) by a vagabong dealer outside of the PCC network. It is a weekly occurrence. I dindn't even have to inspect, I new they were fake upfront. There are no Mastercase quantities of 96 R&J CHurchills in the world. How about cases of Montecristo No 2 (1992) or 1988 Monte 4's...all offered for sale to us in the past 6 weeks.

The whole emphasis has now moved from faking new cigars to aged ones. It is actually easier.

I have no problem advising box and date codes, I just insist that the emphasis is on quality.

[jwrussell]

I understand your point Rob, I truly do. I just think you are jumping to some conclusions that, for me, aren't necessarily true. I'm not always, or even most of the time, looking for the oldest box anyone has in stock. An example? Right now I'm thinking about another box of Monte 4's. And you know what? I want 04's. In fact, I'll be pulling out my now empty box to check the code to see if I can't get as close as possible to the same code, because I really enjoyed those smokes. Does that mean new production won't be better, or older for that matter? Hell no, just means I really enjoyed that box and would like another.

I also know someone who is a big fan of 2001 JL #1s. Had younger and older and for whatever reason really likes the 01's.

So please understand, that for some of us, there is more to wanting date codes visible than just wanting the oldest one you have. You've obviously got a pet peeve going here and somewhat of a stereotype issue. All I ask is you don't apply it to all of us.

Thank you.

[wasch_24]

JW summed my thoughts up pretty well. Please don't lump all of us Americans into one large stereotype Rob. That's kinda rude.

[kab55]

I'm also quilty of asking about date codes. They are however justr part of my buying decision, quality first, age if quality is available.

[xrundog]

Good discussion. I guess with nothing else to go on, some people rely on a date code in an effort to replicate a previous experience. But with access to someone with broad experience, I am more likely to try something based on a recommendation regardless of any other criteria.

There is a small cadre of guys in the US who smoke aged/old cigars almost exclusively. They are very particular. Much like vinophiles.

Me? In my limited experience. I think the recent production has been pretty good. Though I like to know the date code for future comparison, I'm generally not picky about it. And I am much too thrifty to smoke the really aged stuff. I don't want to collect 'em, I want to smoke 'em!

[habanohal]

I usually laugh at all this. IMO it is asked for 1 simple reason. ON mostly all BBs' allthat is talked aout is " how I have this box from 96 and so on"

Most people smokeing cuban cigars no very littel, even if they have been smokeing for a few years.

It is almost saying that their are alot of "followers" where to say that since they read on a board about certain years or that cigars are better with alot of age.

If you know what I am trying to say.

For me, I can be honest and say that it is very hard to deciefer between a cigar with 1 yr age or 7.

Example: I have a few boxes of LGC #2 2 boxes are 04 and 1 from 98. If you gave me 2 to smoke and didnt tell me the years, most likely it would be a toos up of which is from what year.

I would rather have cigars with 1 year on them. I like the fresh in your face strength, not so much the 15 year old mellowness.

[wasch_24]

Your last sentence confirms that you would like to know the code though.

[guilow]

Great Discussion!

I hear what some of you are saying about the U.S. forums being so radical amount only smoking "aged" stock. You almost cringe when someone posts that he "just smoked a great xxxx from May 05". Inevitably, you get 10 posts about how they MUST be put away for 3-5 years or they are not worth smoking. I'm becoming more of a fan of this site everyday since you don't see all that crap here. :-)

[waldo]

It's all Min Ron Nees fault.:-P

[strayvector]

I'm a noob so all my stock is recent production. I've smoked a few older sticks from 97 and 98 from the local cigar shop in Stockholm and couldn't really distinguish much difference from their 03 stock of the same ciagr. Granted, some of my 05s are not as smooth as the older ones, but I consider acquiring good quality cigars and aging them myself as part of the hobby. My favorite smoke right now are the 3 10-count boxes of PSP2 that I bought last summer and have slowly smoked to try to make it last for a couple of years. I'll be ordering more so that I can do this, but I definitely apprecieate the quality I get from Rob. I also can't be bothered to keep track of box codes, so maybe I'm just lazy.

[Colt45]

My comments on this use the wine analogy already used. Some wines, produced

with the best grapes, from the best vineyards, from a great vintage, made with the

utmost of care, can age for decades. Most wines on the shelves, probably

already from a harvest or two ago are ready to drink now. (of course, some will

fall somewhere in between).

So, is it the same with Cuban cigars? Maybe not exactly, but I think the quality

of that years tobacco crops, and the care given the tobacco during the processing,

rolling, and storage of the tobacco and cigars apply. So I think that being familiar

with tobacco vintages would be a help, and date codes would certainly help in that

respect. But age for ages sake, as previously stated guarantees nothing.

Try drinking a ten year old bottle of entry level Chianti Clasico!!

This is just a general observation/personal opinion - I'm not applying this to

anyone else's post.

[guilow]

I've seen vendors that put dates codes on their site. But I'm guessing that it would be an incredible amout of work to keep up updated. We, the consumer, are going to pay for the additional labor involved with that! I once searched all over for a specific box and found one with a date code I was seeking. I ordered that specific box and got shipped one with a different date. The explanation was "the website wasn't updated and we sold out of that code". That leads to a lot of customer dissatisfaction. You either have to go all out, or forget displaying codes alltogether IMO.

[wasch_24]

» I've seen vendors that put dates codes on their site. But I'm guessing

» that it would be an incredible amout of work to keep up updated. We, the

» consumer, are going to pay for the additional labor involved with that! I

» once searched all over for a specific box and found one with a date code I

» was seeking. I ordered that specific box and got shipped one with a

» different date. The explanation was "the website wasn't updated and we

» sold out of that code". That leads to a lot of customer dissatisfaction.

» You either have to go all out, or forget displaying codes alltogether IMO.

That happens regardless...trust me.

[cvm4]

It's actually not that hard to have an Excel chart of the current cigars in stock. Update it when you sell them and update it when you get more mastercases in. I've seen it done before.

And yes I am a box-code asker. I especially do this when I buy singles so I can know what I'm smoking and might want to find that code if I particularly enjoy that cigar. I realize quality might vary even if they have the same code, and if I get a box full of plugged or real loose cigars, then I'm glad I shopped with a vendor that will guarantee my satisfaction.

[tmos]

I'm just glad they get here!:-D