Nicaraguan tobacco in cuban cigars?

[prodigy]

I was smoking a cigar with the owner of my local B&M and cigar bar on Wednesday. He isn't really fond of Cubans, mostly due to the lack of quality control, and because he can't legally sell them. He has been in the cigar industry practically his whole life. He knows many of the owners personally; the padron family, perdomo, Jonathan drew etc. I respect his knowledge and to top it off he is one of the most generous people I've ever met.

 

He was telling me that due to the increased demand, and relative decrease in supply of cuban tobacco, the cuban government has been trading with Nicaragua. He said for every pound/kilo of cuban tobacco traded they receive 2 of Nicaraguan. I find this hard to believe, but I guess it wouldn't be too much of a shocker given how the country is run. Has anyone else heard this rumor??

 

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[prodigy]

?

I felt the same way when he said it! I just respect him too much to call him out on it. Wasn't sure if it's a common rumor or if he is just gullible...

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[btort910]

Haven't heard that rumor and don't think it's likely to be true.

[Doctorossi]

There have been rumors of Cuba supplementing their production with Nicaraguan leaf doing the rounds for a few years now. I haven't heard any about Cuban leaf going the other way, though, and the '2 for 1' equation this guy is describing sounds pretty suspect, too.

[Colt45]

Yes, has been suggested for a couple of decades now - but never any hard evidence. To paraphrase what RA has said a number of times - how do you hide manifests for tons of tobacco?

Here's a magazine quote from 2001:

 

[Doctorossi]

25 minutes ago, Colt45 said:

how do you hide manifests for tons of tobacco?

Diplomatic pouches?  

[oakalley]

I could maybe understand Cuba buying tobacco from Nicaragua, but what would be the point for Nicaragua to buy Cuban unless they could advertise their cigars as "Cuban blend". They can't advertise because that would put them in jeopardy with the USA's embargo. I just don't see the cigar manufacturers in Nicaragua taking that chance. Even if they advertised a blend in other countries, it would put them in the crosshairs of US Customs.


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[JamesKPolkEsq]

Why is it so difficult to believe that Cuban cigars are blending? Seems like a great idea from HSA's point of view. Buy low, sell high - they've proven adept at that. 

If the trouble is simply the manifests fir bulk tobacco purchases, it doesn't seem that difficult a task to disappear those documents. 

If they don't get caught, they're printing money. 

[PigFish]

Cubans have a slave labor force and an island that they own. What they don't have a lot of is money! 

While nothing that the Cubans do would surprise me, sending doctors to work and receiving toilet paper back.... I highly doubt that this is happening.

 

[Geaux]

My taste buds say no....  There is a big taste difference in the leaf the two countries produce.

Now if they started doing this 10+ years ago, than I'm all wet. But cubans taste different to me than any other countries offering.

 

Two Cents...

 

 

[NSXCIGAR]

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and this would certainly fall into the category of an extraordinary claim the likes of which would turn the industry on its head. This would be a huge scandal and something that the NC producers would have a huge incentive to expose. It would be extremely risky for Tabacuba to try and pull this off. It also wouldn't explain the shortages Cuba clearly has been experiencing and the relatively poor quality and inconsistency over the last decade. And why would the Cubans be giving away any tobacco? That makes no sense. Why not just buy the tobacco with cash? Seems like sending Cuban tobacco and receiving Nicaraguan tobacco would double the risk of exposure. And so the NC producers are supposedly using Cuban tobacco? This could potentially expose them to enormous fines and sanctions if the US OFAC ever found out. There's more holes in this theory than Swiss cheese. 

Knowing what I know about NC producers and retailers, this is exactly the kind of baseless claim they would make to try and promote their products. Not saying that it categorically isn't happening, but it is quite a claim and I would certainly need some serious evidence to believe it. 

 

[Smallclub]

44 minutes ago, JamesKPolkEsq said:

Why is it so difficult to believe that Cuban cigars are blending?

Because it doesn't make sense, because Cuba has better tobacco, labor force, but no cash, because there are people who have experience and can taste the difference , because this claims comes back every year on cigar forums and in almost 20 years no one has been able to produce an evidence, etc. etc.

[Lotusguy]

One of those urban legends that just won't die.

[JamesKPolkEsq]

10 minutes ago, Smallclub said:

Because it doesn't make sense, because Cuba has better tobacco, labor force, but no cash, because there are people who have experience and can taste the difference , because this claims comes back every year on cigar forums and in almost 20 years no one has been able to produce an evidence, etc. etc.

I agree with the idea that trading tobacco is likely not happening. 

Why would it be so hard for Tabacuba to proxy buy some tobacco bundles? It would be a net profit to be sure, so the motivation is easy to see. It couldn't be that difficult, right? 

[prodigy]

If it was indeed happening, it would be a very tightly controlled trade. The average Joe like us wouldn't know about it. Honestly, I'd like to have a cigar with a blend of Fuentes best, padron best, and cuban best tobacco! Hopefully one day that would be possible.

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[chris12381]

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and this would certainly fall into the category of an extraordinary claim the likes of which would turn the industry on its head. This would be a huge scandal and something that the NC producers would have a huge incentive to expose.

 

DING DING DING!!!

This is all you need to know.  I've been hearing this rumor for over a decade.  Which would mean that for over a decade, "hundreds of thousands of pounds", many times over would have had to have found their way from Nicaragua and Honduras into Cuba.  Boat after boat, clandestinely loaded with tobacco, floating their way into Cuba.  And in all those years, no one has been able to produce a single photo of a bale of tobacco with "Hecho en Honduras" or a Bill of Laiding/Guia de Carga describing such a shipment.  Even a photo in a factory during any step of the production process of tobacco that looks like it doesn't belong in Cuba?  Nope.  Exposing this would provide enough incentive for the non-Cuban cigar industry to compensate anyone on the island handsomely with such evidence...should it exist.  And yet?  Nada.  

 

 

[NSXCIGAR]

1 hour ago, JamesKPolkEsq said:

Why would it be so hard for Tabacuba to proxy buy some tobacco bundles? It would be a net profit to be sure, so the motivation is easy to see. It couldn't be that difficult, right? 

Because it wouldn't be "some tobacco bundles". It would be metric tons coming in and out of these countries. And it would represent an enormous amount for the NC countries to give up with no real incentive to do so as the profit margin is much greater when the finished product is sold by the producers--particularly their top-shelf stuff. And again, this would imply that NC tobacco is superior to Cuban tobacco which is a tough one to swallow as I've yet to smoke a NC that I thought was on the same level as a decent CC. 

If Cuba is getting the best tobacco from the top NC producers, they'd all be aware of it--Oliva, Padron, Fuente, Perdomo--the top brass would all have to know about it. If I were the Cuban gov't I would not trust these families to keep this huge secret (many of whom still harbor serious hatred for the Cuban gov't). 

And again, the NC community has consistently been less than upstanding when it comes to denigrating CCs and promoting their products. This is a clear pattern over the last 20 years and quite frankly, NC producers and retailers have almost no credibility with me.

[SCgarman]

6 hours ago, prodigy said:

 

I was smoking a cigar with the owner of my local B&M and cigar bar on Wednesday. He isn't really fond of Cubans, mostly due to the lack of quality control, and because he can't legally sell them. He has been in the cigar industry practically his whole life. He knows many of the owners personally; the padron family, perdomo, Jonathan drew etc. I respect his knowledge and to top it off he is one of the most generous people I've ever met.

 

He was telling me that due to the increased demand, and relative decrease in supply of cuban tobacco, the cuban government has been trading with Nicaragua. He said for every pound/kilo of cuban tobacco traded they receive 2 of Nicaraguan. I find this hard to believe, but I guess it wouldn't be too much of a shocker given how the country is run. Has anyone else heard this rumor??

 

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Would he be Gary Pesh?

[prodigy]

Would he be Gary Pesh?

No

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[kuma]

Pres / Rob what is your take on this issue.  Would like to hear your thoughts on subject matter.

[SCgarman]

4 hours ago, prodigy said:

If it was indeed happening, it would be a very tightly controlled trade. The average Joe like us wouldn't know about it. Honestly, I'd like to have a cigar with a blend of Fuentes best, padron best, and cuban best tobacco! Hopefully one day that would be possible.

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Look, the bottom line is these B&M store owners in the US know many folks are buying boxes of Cubans via the net, and that is obviously money not spent in their shops on non Cuban sticks. So, of course they feel threatened by the competition, and have to do what they can to earn your hard earned $$$. They have rent to pay for their retail space and utilities and payroll for the employees. An online Cuban vendor has a fraction of these business costs. What better way to beat the competition than to say Cuba is buying tobacco from Nicaragua because it is superior and Cuban supply is inadequate to meet demand. I have not walked into a B&M cigar store in my area of residence and bought a box of non Cubans in many years.

[El Presidente]

6 hours ago, JamesKPolkEsq said:

Why is it so difficult to believe that Cuban cigars are blending? Seems like a great idea from HSA's point of view. Buy low, sell high - they've proven adept at that. 

If the trouble is simply the manifests fir bulk tobacco purchases, it doesn't seem that difficult a task to disappear those documents. 

If they don't get caught, they're printing money. 

The Cubans always stop paying. 

[helix]

Preposterous . 

[cigcars]

      * It was always rumored for decades and decades that Nicaragua/Honduras was supposedly importing Cuban tobacco on the sly to add to their smokes, which IMHO would seem highly improbable due to the scarcity of Cuban tobacco availability for its own cigar production.  It would seem a tad more probable that Cuba could or may have to import those other tobaccos to supplement their own supply - again on the sly. But as was stated earlier - that's supposed to be a taboo for Cuba's offerings are supposed to be relegated puros of 100% Cuban tobacco only. 

[dimi68]

Well small amounts of cuban tobacco seems to find its way overseas to custom rollers!