Consistency

[Jon11]

I'm sure this has been talked about before but I'm fairly new to CCs.  Been smoking NCs forever but besides the occasional CC don't really have too much experience under my belt.  Why is the quality and consistency of NCs so much better than that of CCs?  Seems I've only a handful of times had a NC that had bad draws or bad wrappers.  Seems a little more common with CCs?  Also more mold and beetle problems?  Why is this?

 Thanks 

Jon

[kalibratecuba]

I'm sure this has been talked about before but I'm fairly new to CCs.  Been smoking NCs forever but besides the occasional CC don't really have too much experience under my belt.  Why is the quality and consistency of NCs so much better than that of CCs?  Seems I've only a handful of times had a NC that had bad draws or bad wrappers.  Seems a little more common with CCs?  Also more mold and beetle problems?  Why is this?

 Thanks 

Jon

I've seen the reverse in the last year and a half, in regard to beetles. You are at the right place to buy if having these encounters often.

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[PigFish]

Smoking Cuban cigars is about the taste, and taste performance. (MHO). You simply look past (or complain feverishly as I do) about the lack of care and detail put into the contemporary Cuban cigar.

One must ask one's self what is smoking all about? Is it about the flashy bands and the flawless wrapper, or is it about the taste of the cigar? If you find them both in the NC variants then you are fortunate as they make nicer looking cigars. Frankly, some of us don't like the taste of them, and draw or no draw, smooth or rough wrappers, I am not going to smoke a cigar that looks great and tastes awful.

Cuban consistency, well, it is an oxymoron. The people that run Tabacuba, they are just morons, without the oxy... Yet, their cigars sell. This means (again, MHO) that the Cuban cigar smoker has only marginally better taste than that of the NC cigar smoker... As they sell these monstrous crappy cigars and buyers line up to get them, the market reinforces their decision to kill connoisseur cigars for this flashy crap! Great cigars, the Cuban ones anyway are largely becoming a thing of the past. Again, just my perspective on the matter!

Rant over! -the Pig

[Colt45]

For me, I think it boils down to a lack of competition.

[Customsfan]

Also, some of us smoke CC's for sentimental reasons, so to speak.  It's just the idea of knowing that it is Cuban.  It's like those who must have a Ford, or Chevy.

[LLC]

Regarding beetles, Cuba unlike other countries does not use pesticides. If stored properly beetles would not be an issue. They do freeze cigars for export but many people freeze cigars they buy in Cuba to kill the larva.


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[stogieluver]

I smoke probably 600-700 CC's per year, and I honestly hardly ever run into construction problems.  The taste of a Cuban cigar, to me, far outweighs the inconsistency of the product.  I smoked non-Cubans for 15 years before discovering CC's, and I never found that non-Cuban that blew me away, or even close.  I'll never go back to non-Cubans.

[Jon11]

Why do some feel CCs are not as good as they used to be?

[ErikB]

Greed is the root of all evil . It leads to over-production and I've noticed it with NC's as well lately . The smell of money means construction issues will be ignored more frequently by the manufacturers.


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[JamesKPolkEsq]

There are great CCs and there are great NCs. 

Years ago, the wine community "just knew"  that French wines were head and shoulders above all other wines. 

I'd love to see a blind tasting competition ala "The Judgement of Paris" for cigars... 

[earthson]

9 hours ago, Jon11 said:

Seems I've only a handful of times had a NC that had bad draws or bad wrappers.  Seems a little more common with CCs?  Also more mold and beetle problems?  Why is this?

 

See, I've had more bad draws from NC - typically because they're so loosely bunched that they canoe much more than CC, in my opinion, on the average.

If you're seeing mold and beetle problems, I would question your vendor. One or 2 are known for having mold issues. Beetles *shouldn't* be a problem since HSA freezes/fumigates before distribution. In 10 years, I have seen wood mites occasionally, and small dustings of some white mold, but haven't seen any beetles.

[zeedubbya]

Because they come from a communist country using mid century methods of production.  In Nicaragua and DR the Padrón's and Fuentes have the luxury of all the modern methods of farming, curing and rolling.  HOWEVER, there's nothing like the Cuban cigar when they get it right.  Even when it's not perfect the taste is superior in my opinion.  They get it right quite often really.  

I smoke them for the possibility.  The possibility of getting a truly sublime experience.  Have had this only a few times with NCs, but many many times with Cuban cigars.  

It's kind of a bit like gambling I suppose.  Why do I play the Powerball.  I heard the odds of winning the Powerball are hard to comprehend--they say it's like putting $1 bills on the ground around the entire US border...twice...and then driving your car around that double border and stopping at the right spot and picking up the marked dollar bill. Every set of numbers you buy gets you another trip around the route.  Long odds for sure. But I'm driving for that $500 million tonight! 

With Cubans it's way better odds so I play to hit that jackpot, and the journey to the jackpot.  The Bolivar Coronas Extra which makes you stop and be stunned.  The Lusitania which grabs ahold of you.   The D4 I had to pull my car over for a half an hour to smoke, because it was so good and totally unexpected in such a young cigar.  There's been some crap, but along the way is many many really awesome cigars.  

There's some great NCs, but I wouldn't  have it any other way.  

Just one mans opinion.  Hope this helps shed a little light.  

[PigFish]

16 hours ago, zeedubbya said:

Because they come from a communist country using mid century methods of production.  In Nicaragua and DR the Padrón's and Fuentes have the luxury of all the modern methods of farming, curing and rolling.  HOWEVER, there's nothing like the Cuban cigar when they get it right.  Even when it's not perfect the taste is superior in my opinion.  They get it right quite often really.  

I smoke them for the possibility.  The possibility of getting a truly sublime experience.  Have had this only a few times with NCs, but many many times with Cuban cigars.  

It's kind of a bit like gambling I suppose.  Why do I play the Powerball.  I heard the odds of winning the Powerball are hard to comprehend--they say it's like putting $1 bills on the ground around the entire US border...twice...and then driving your car around that double border and stopping at the right spot and picking up the marked dollar bill. Every set of numbers you buy gets you another trip around the route.  Long odds for sure. But I'm driving for that $500 million tonight! 

With Cubans it's way better odds so I play to hit that jackpot, and the journey to the jackpot.  The Bolivar Coronas Extra which makes you stop and be stunned.  The Lusitania which grabs ahold of you.   The D4 I had to pull my car over for a half an hour to smoke, because it was so good and totally unexpected in such a young cigar.  There's been some crap, but along the way is many many really awesome cigars.  

There's some great NCs, but I wouldn't  have it any other way.  

Just one mans opinion.  Hope this helps shed a little light.  

... nice post mate.

Cuban cigar have all the right parts... just not the right management. Imagine picking up every bill and being a winner. They could do it, or come pretty close if they only had the rights to do it.

It would appear from some of the comments made, that instead of the NC producers bringing the market up, well... perhaps it is just the Cubans demonstrating that it can be brought down and still be viable.

.....? -the Pig

[Islandboy]

On August 19, 2017 at 5:21 AM, Jon11 said:

Why is the quality and consistency of NCs so much better than that of CCs?  Seems I've only a handful of times had a NC that had bad draws or bad wrappers.  Seems a little more common with CCs?  Also more mold and beetle problems?  Why is this?

Like some others have stated, I haven’t found this to be my experience. Granted, in my short 3 years of cigar appreciation, I’ve smoked mostly NC’s, so there’s a volume ratio at play. But I’ve sharply increased my CC collection and consumption in the last year, and I honestly see better consistency in both taste and performance.

[Customsfan]

Also. I wonder how many people in recent years have smoked fakes, thinking they were the real thing. 

[earthson]

It seems to me that it's mostly folks who have been smoking for decades who are unhappy with the current level of quality in Havanas. Oh, how I would love to have witnessed the apparent CC heydays of the 80s and early 90s!

In the 10 years I've been smoking them, I've been happy overall with consistency. Sure, you get different "phenotypes" in the flavor profile due to differences in individual leaves, but I gravitate towards cigars such as HUPC, RASCC and PLPC/MC because they have shown themselves to be fairly consistent across different factories and vintages.

[Fugu]

I'd venture to say - If people would smoke as many Cubans as non-Cubans, they'd perhaps see not that much of a difference in construction issues (see @stogieluver's post) as is purported. The thing is, in part it's a myth of superiority played out by NC makers, in part it is a lack of balanced experience of smokers of both kinds. And finally, it is a matter of preference. Quite like @earthson puts it, for me personally, most NCs have a construction problem, due to their mostly looser draw and also due to their often highly processed wrapper leaf. I for one can simply better tolerate a stiffer draw than a overly open draw - which one may, quite regrettably, find at an increasing rate also in Cubans lately. And perhaps it is this change towards "appealing" the American market (wider formats, more open draw) what makes the "seasoned" smoker of Cuban cigars complain?

As to the mold and beetle claim - that's bar any proof, and if it were so, it's not a token of NCs versus CCs.

[El Presidente]

On 8/20/2017 at 5:55 AM, Jon11 said:

Why do some feel CCs are not as good as they used to be?

They are better today than at any time since 1996 when I came into the business.  There will be differing opinions of course. 

[Fosgate]

I still smoke NC's and try different ones all the time. While many smoke good there are a lot of dog rockets and oil cans out there in the NC world. It's just obvious that not every Habanos will be great. But I have certainly found more Habanos that wow me in comparison to NC's. I think when a CC comes together in construction, flavor, smoke amount, draw and presentation it's just tough to beat. I'll grab a good tasting NC but then something always throws it for a loop, doesn't stay lit, uneven burn, trying to get a good amount of smoke out of it is like trying to suck start a chevy v8, flavor turns really harsh or muddy etc. I don't know what it is but it seems I have adapted a preference of the tighter draw, the flaws of a hand made product at every step in the old way with this resulting end product. Whatever it is, I like it. 

[PatrickEwing]

I don't want to live in a world of over-refined, mechanized, uniform consistent Habanos. I understand the foolishness of trading time and money for uncertainty, but isn't it part of the allure? Aren't a number of the bricks that this forum is built on made of factory code arguments, chasing years or months, opining/crying over certain harvests, calling out the sanity/manhood of Tabacuba? I know something would be missing if everytime I saw a cigar I knew exactly how it would taste and burn. A premium cigar should be not made shoddily or lacking standards. But a little individuality and uncertainty is nice in a world rushing headlong to homegeneity. 

 

[HabanosNJGuy]

3 hours ago, PatrickEwing said:

I don't want to live in a world of over-refined, mechanized, uniform consistent Habanos. I understand the foolishness of trading time and money for uncertainty, but isn't it part of the allure? Aren't a number of the bricks that this forum is built on made of factory code arguments, chasing years or months, opining/crying over certain harvests, calling out the sanity/manhood of Tabacuba? I know something would be missing if everytime I saw a cigar I knew exactly how it would taste and burn. A premium cigar should be not made shoddily or lacking standards. But a little individuality and uncertainty is nice in a world rushing headlong to homegeneity. 

 

I agree to an extent.  I will never forget the first Partagas Lusi that I smoked.  The flavor and complexity blew me away.  What's frustrating is the wide spectrum of quality found in Habanos.  This is something I did not realize until finding this forum.  Just look at how many grades there are in the 24:24 selections.  What percentage of a master case are not even PE?  In the US, where we always buy site unseen (unless it's from here), we are at the mercy of our vendors.

 I like to buy singles of cigars I haven't tried yet before buying a box.  A few times, I've had a great single cigar, but when I get the box I am disappointed that the smoke is not even close to the experience I had with the single.  A recent box of Bolivar Coronas Junior comes to mind.  Now I wonder where do my other boxes fall along this spectrum? Do I have good stuff or duds?  I've been happy with most of it, but sometimes I wonder if I'm not getting the flavors other talk about in a particle cigar because of my inexperience or lesser quality cigars.  Habanos are too expensive to accept substandard cigars on a regular basis.   Variations are nice and that will certainly come from any hand made agricultural product.  But there should be higher standards.  

[ElPuro]

4 hours ago, PatrickEwing said:

I don't want to live in a world of over-refined, mechanized, uniform consistent Habanos. I understand the foolishness of trading time and money for uncertainty, but isn't it part of the allure? Aren't a number of the bricks that this forum is built on made of factory code arguments, chasing years or months, opining/crying over certain harvests, calling out the sanity/manhood of Tabacuba? I know something would be missing if everytime I saw a cigar I knew exactly how it would taste and burn. A premium cigar should be not made shoddily or lacking standards. But a little individuality and uncertainty is nice in a world rushing headlong to homegeneity. 

 

Well. Said.

[LordAnubis]

There's a difference between poor consistency and poor construction. There should never ever be an excuse for creating a product so poorly that it can not be used in the manner it was intended. Yes the flavourprofile will always be different because the leave and crops are all different. But a cigar should never ever be rolled poorly and sold that way.

As to why? NCs are better than CCs? Probably cos of the workers standard of living and pay scales and tools they have available to use.

But that's always the case. When you're a "second tier" producer like NCs, you try and find new ways to make your product superior to the "real deal". And if you can't beat them with your tobacco. Beat them with a superior produced product. And people will buy. People do buy. A LOT!

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[BellevilleMXZ]

Why ? Because Cuba Seriously though, While I have only smoked a few NCs, and probably 200 CC, I haven't really found many bad ones,....a couple maybe? Considering where/how the are grown and made, that's not bad. But that said, if you want consistency, buy on the 24:24 , I had had GREAT luck.   

[cigaraholic]

Consistency has been gone from Cuban cigars for about 20 years....buckle up and enjoy the ride ?