ROTT vs. a few months age (does it really help?)

[Riverstyx]

Greetings - I'm trying to understand why letting your sticks marinate for a couple months in your humidor will make much of a difference.  Buying new boxes typically means it has already been several months since boxed.  And once boxed, aren't they typically maintained well?  Will the minor difference in humidity between how I keep the sticks and the seller's humidor make that much of a difference?

For example, let's say I order two boxes of the same cigar, but one is a box from May and one is a box from July.  The May box already has two extra months where it was likely held in a humidified area, so do they both need a couple extra months in my own humidor?

[Customsfan]

A lotta people have a particular RH or condition they like to smoke their cigars.  And that's just the tip of the iceberg. 

[JR Kipling]

Cigars are typically kept at a higher RH to protect them from damage. (Drier is more delicate.) They may also be shipped with a moisture pack - often a Boveda 69%. Many of us prefer to smoke our cigars at a lower RH. It takes about 1 week of rest per 1% of desired moisture change. So, if the cigars are at 69RH and you prefer 62RH, it'll take 7 weeks to get them where you want them.

For me personally, I haven't had much luck smoking cigars that were literally 'right off the truck'. Not saying this isn't possible, just relating my preferences & experience. On these production cigars, (not custom rolls), I've had burn issues and harsh taste with  most (but not all) cigars that I hadnt rested for at least 2 months. Lookin forward to others opinions on this. I'd like to be able to smoke more cigars sooner.

[PigFish]

I am one such person as indicated above. Some of us are 'water content' conscience, and frankly most people store cigars wetter than I prefer.

A cigar smoked soon after leaving the possession of a vendor is imho, a cigar often wasted. I do believe that there is not much point in it, knowing that the water content has likely tainted its taste.

I don't have a set formula for the cigars 'gassing off.' I will generally leave a box of cigars a year or longer to acclimatize. This has nothing to do with 'aging' but everything to do with percent moisture content.

-Piggy

[KFBR392]

Yes ?

[garbandz]

"It takes about 1 week of rest per 1% of desired moisture change "

 

This...........

as has been said,different vendors store at different % rh, and it is usually higher than I like to smoke my cigars.

 

probably this is to prevent them drying out during shipping, which can take weeks.........

[jcorona]

"Travel shock" - cigars in transit can be subjected to heat or cold, releasing moisture or absorbing it, leaves expanding and/or contracting. At least 3 months in your humidor, will stabilize these cigars, and give the leaves a chance to equalize in moisture content, instead of an outer leaf being dry and an inner leaf being wetter, causing harsh bitter taste, and bad burn. Actually, 3 to 6 months have given me better results, depending on the cigar of course.

Just my 2 cigars on the subject.

[JR Kipling]

Maybe its just the particular cigars I've smoked, but I haven't found dry boxing (where you set a cigar out at much lower room RH) to help much. The inner core of the cigar remains wet, even though the outter wrapper may be drier. It just seems to be a matter of taking time. For the vast majority of my cigars (including NCs) I give them at least 4-6 months rest before smoking. As @PigFish mentioned, smoking them too soon just wastes a cigar. (Been there, done that.)

[99call]

Hhhm who knows what 'trauma' a cigar will go through in it's final dispatch to your door?. I would say allowing a cigar to 'recover' is sort of a different issue than smoking ROTT. I guess smoking all your cigars under 'your conditions' allows you to form your most accurate picture of what you want, and how you like it.

I think smoking ROTT to me, is more wanting to experience the full kaleidoscope of a box of cigar. Like principles of adding salt i.e. 'you can add, but you can't take away'. I think a cigar can be many things in it's life, but if you don't smoke one out of a box of 25 ROTT, you sort of rob yourself of something very interesting, that you cant get back. 

[Philc2001]

Lots of good info already covered.

In addition to the different conditions between vendor and personal humidor, you need to also consider the variations in transit. I've received packages in the past that were actually hot to touch from the excess heat in the back of the courier's truck. Don't underestimate the extremes these packages go through on their journey from the vendor to you. 

I did some consulting work about 10 years ago with a pharma and medical device company. Among other things, we were researching the effects of shipping medicine and other perishable medical devices via courier. In several tests we attached monitoring devices to the medical content in a number of packages to record climate conditions and g-forces throughout the journey, and then we shipped the packages all over the country. The data we retrieved from these monitoring devices was extremely alarming!

Every package we shipped arrived at its destination within 1-3 days by courier. From the research we observed temperature swings as high as 115 degrees F for several hours at a time during warm months. In winter months temperatures were down to the 40s often, and in some cases down below freezing as packages sat in a delivery truck overnight. We also observed very large g-forces, in many cases > 2-Gs and in some > 5-Gs. One can only imagine what might have been going on in those trucks.  

That was in just 1-3 days. Now imagine what an international shipment over several weeks might go through. 

[MaxG]

20 minutes ago, JR Kipling said:

Maybe its just the particular cigars I've smoked, but I haven't found dry boxing (where you set a cigar out at much lower room RH) to help much. The inner core of the cigar remains wet, even though the outter wrapper may be drier. It just seems to be a matter of taking time. For the vast majority of my cigars (including NCs) I give them at least 4-6 months rest before smoking. As @PigFish mentioned, smoking them too soon just wastes a cigar. (Been there, done that.)

 

Good point. We all seem to accept the 1 percentage point per week guide when changing rh levels, but then turn around and say a few hours to a few days in a dry box will make a significant difference.  I could never square that. 

 

[Doctorossi]

11 minutes ago, Philc2001 said:

We also observed very large g-forces, in many cases > 2-Gs and in some > 5-Gs. One can only imagine what might have been going on in those trucks.

If this van's a-rockin', don't come a-knockin'.

[PigFish]

...in cigars, axial verses radial G's can cause dramatic effects!!! A vector thrust with an obtuse angular to the long axis... well, just don't let it happen!!! -LOL

-the Pig

[JR Kipling]

"Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar"

[BuzzArd]

I say try one.  Seriously, fire one up when the box gets in your hand.  Then set them aside for an aclimatization in your humi.  See if there's a difference to you.  I find that sometimes a cigar is just fine ROTT.   But I've had more that were sour, burned poorly and just did not satisfy, so for the most part my stock lays down for a while before i dip in. 

And more often than not I'm picking up boxes to replace ones I'm finishing, so they're going to get a nap anyway....  

[JamesKPolkEsq]

1 hour ago, MaxG said:

 

Good point. We all seem to accept the 1 percentage point per week guide when changing rh levels, but then turn around and say a few hours to a few days in a dry box will make a significant difference.  I could never square that. 

 

Any hard data for this claim of 1% per week? Just curious, this thread is the first time I have heard of it. Seems reasonable, but it's nice to see sources.

As far as dry boxing, rate of change in water content is partially dependent on the magnitude of difference between the cigar and its environment. A large difference in the two will likely result in the cigar changing water content (Wa) more rapidly.

Think of the difference between drying your clothes in a desert vs a jungle. At the same temperature, your clothes will dry more rapidly in an more arid environment.

[PigFish]

12 minutes ago, JamesKPolkEsq said:

Any hard data for this claim of 1% per week? Just curious, this thread is the first time I have heard of it. Seems reasonable, but it's nice to see sources.

As far as dry boxing, rate of change in water content is partially dependent on the magnitude of difference between the cigar and its environment. A large difference in the two will likely result in the cigar changing water content (Wa) more rapidly.

Think of the difference between drying your clothes in a desert vs a jungle. At the same temperature, your clothes will dry more rapidly in an more arid environment.

... a truism. Rates of change also depend on temperature and the flow of air around the cigar. Forced airflow (in the humidor or out of it) can have a dramatic affect.

A friend here has experimented with this to some extent and I have asked him to comment before. You can do a search for @soutso and find where he has discussed his experimentation within the rapid acclimatization topic.

Cheers! -Piggy

[Diabolicalpherpher]

This is from an online vendor in the US...

https://www.smallbatchcigar.com/how-does-shipping-affect-cigars-temperature-humidity-and-you

Quote

Last May we purchased a fine-tuned sensor and shipped it around the United States to see just what happened inside packages once they leave SmallBatch Headquarters.  This device would record temperature and humidity every minute to four decimal places, giving us more than enough data to work with.  What we found wasn’t exactly surprising, but reinforced our decision to put your box in your hands as fast as possible.

Over the course of 22 days, our temperature readings showed an average of 74.05 (rounded) degrees.  Yet, before we could begin celebrating, we noticed that there were several six hour or greater periods where the temperature was above 90 degrees. In fact, the highest recorded temperature was 94.66 degrees while the lowest temperature recorded was 43.62 degrees. That means that if we had cigars inside that package, they would have been subjected to temperature changes over 50 degrees between the lowest and highest temps.  

Likewise, humidity was recorded at an average of 70.44 RH. The changes here were much more drastic, recording a low of 33.81% RH and a maximum of 100% RH. And this was in May, not even the hottest time of year.

This is what contributes to what we call the Sick Period for cigars – the time after shipping that your cigars will underperform because of the temperature and humidity changes they have to endure to arrive at your doorstep.

And, the Sick Period isn’t exclusive to online retailers.  Brick and mortar stores like our very own Maxamar Ultimate Cigars in Orange, CA receives cigars the same way you do: through the mail.

 

[CrankYanker]

This may be the wrong area to ask, but I was curious for those who do not have a personal humidor (me right here) how do you feel just storing a Boveda 62 just in your box and wait it out for a couple of weeks?  I am working on a personal humidor but do not have anything yet, so just trying to get some other options on this.

[Doctorossi]

8 minutes ago, CrankYanker said:

This may be the wrong area to ask, but I was curious for those who do not have a personal humidor (me right here) how do you feel just storing a Boveda 62 just in your box and wait it out for a couple of weeks?  I am working on a personal humidor but do not have anything yet, so just trying to get some other options on this.

I've never done that, so take this for the educated guess that it is, but it's probably better than nothing and it really can't hurt.

[CrankYanker]

10 minutes ago, Doctorossi said:

I've never done that, so take this for the educated guess that it is, but it's probably better than nothing and it really can't hurt.

This is how I stored my last 11 Cubans that I received from some friends up north.  This was around last October.  I have one left to smoke and it will be this weekend at the bachelor party the guys are throwing for me.  I must say that they keep well and can't notice a difference.....I just turned an old cigar box into my own personal humidor but it's not really a humidor if that makes sense.

[Riverstyx]

I'd at least put it in some tupperware.  CO recommends this one: https://www.amazon.com/Sistema-Collection-Rectangle-Storage-Container/dp/B00284AG5U/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1502831598&sr=8-3&keywords=sistema+klip+it

 

[El Presidente]

The difference is huge.  The reasoning has been covered above but you can't understate the effect of 60-90 days in your own humidor. 

[joeypots]

40 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

The difference is huge.  The reasoning has been covered above but you can't understate the effect of 60-90 days in your own humidor. 

Advise from the throne is worth taking. 

[JR Kipling]

 

2 hours ago, CrankYanker said:

This may be the wrong area to ask, but I was curious for those who do not have a personal humidor (me right here) how do you feel just storing a Boveda 62 just in your box and wait it out for a couple of weeks?  I am working on a personal humidor but do not have anything yet, so just trying to get some other options on this.

Depends on how many cigars you have. Get a tupperware type container for smaller amounts. There are also larger plastic containers with locking lids and foam gaskets (I use some that are Ziploc brand.) I've also put boxes of cigars in tripled up freezer bags, for awhile. Of course youll need to include Boveda packs or some other RH control. All of these methods of storage will work. They actually hold RH better than the typical modestly priced desktop wood humidors that attract a lot of guys starting out.

I guess my point is that you don't have to wait to get an expensive humidor before you buy cigars.