FOH Mould Study

[KnightsAnole]

55 minutes ago, Chuckmejia said:

Thoughts?

I thought it was dry Saudi Arabia. I wonder what the Prince would think?

[OB1]

4 minutes ago, KnightsAnole said:

I thought it was dry Saudi Arabia. I wonder what the Prince would think?

Some one is getting beheaded. 

[rcarlson]

 

5 hours ago, KnightsAnole said:

I thought it was dry Saudi Arabia. I wonder what the Prince would think?

Sharif don't like it.  

[LeafLegionWW]

On 01/09/2017 at 2:57 AM, El Presidente said:

Greg has sent a new batch for testing. Should have the results back end of Sep. Some look promising. 

Always looking for more. The bounty stands 

Any news?

[alloy]

I find this topic very interesting. I just moved a box of Monte Especial #2's from my long term wineador to my smoking wineador. It'a a beautiful LAU Sep 16 box I got off a 24:24 last year in November (I think it was). Anyway, I opened the box to take a look and low and behold there was wispy cottony white stuff around the caps. Also the cap pigtails felt wet (oily?). Didn't leave any residue on my fingers, but I'm just wondering if they need to sit in my long term for another couple months? Any ideas?

[Gargano]

3 hours ago, alloy said:

I find this topic very interesting. I just moved a box of Monte Especial #2's from my long term wineador to my smoking wineador. It'a a beautiful LAU Sep 16 box I got off a 24:24 last year in November (I think it was). Anyway, I opened the box to take a look and low and behold there was wispy cottony white stuff around the caps. Also the cap pigtails felt wet (oily?). Didn't leave any residue on my fingers, but I'm just wondering if they need to sit in my long term for another couple months? Any ideas?

Wipe off the mold. Check your humidity level in your long term wineador & adjust if necessary. Put them back in & check in on them every 4 to 6 mos. if your humdity levels are tracking correct let them sleepy sleep for another 3 to 4 years. Smoke 1 at that time & if all is well smoke up.

[Fuzz]

5 hours ago, alloy said:

I find this topic very interesting. I just moved a box of Monte Especial #2's from my long term wineador to my smoking wineador. It'a a beautiful LAU Sep 16 box I got off a 24:24 last year in November (I think it was). Anyway, I opened the box to take a look and low and behold there was wispy cottony white stuff around the caps. Also the cap pigtails felt wet (oily?). Didn't leave any residue on my fingers, but I'm just wondering if they need to sit in my long term for another couple months? Any ideas?

Check your wineador for excess moisture. Also check other boxes that were next to the Montes.

[Ferrero]

On 10/5/2017 at 5:37 AM, LeafLegionWW said:

Any news?

Received initial testing results and all samples returned as some form of fungi. Comprehensive results will be in by next week.

Keep you posted!

[alloy]

9 hours ago, Fuzz said:

Check your wineador for excess moisture. Also check other boxes that were next to the Montes.

I checked the boxes. RG88, two boxes of Siglo II and a box of Trini Vigia's. All were good. Although they haven't been in the wineador as long as the Monte's. thanks for the info guys. 

[golfgar]

Finally had a chance to read this thread fully, thanks for all the work, well done.

[Dbruckn]

I have a running theory here about plume based on this study (Biochemical Engineering PhD student here, for whatever that's worth):  plume is mold, but that doesn't mean that plume in the "good" sense isn't real.  It may be that there is some strain of mold that presents as "plume,"  which is particularly dusty looking and grows on certain types of cigars more than others, and generally grows slower than traditional mold strains.  Perhaps it breaks down certain compounds in the oils of the wrapper, too, which would explain why "plume makes cigars better."

Might be the stupidest theory ever, but I figured I'd toss it up for discussion.

 

[prodigy]

I think aged cigars taste better. Improperly aged cigars have mold. Correlation with no causation.

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[Wilzc]

 

MMMMMMMM

PLUME!!!

I licked them off with my tongue!!

I was also having some really nice creamy coffee this morning, therefore i dusted some over my coffee for some extra icing!

 

Splendid stuff!!

 

 

 

 

 

[AlFais]

Amazing thread! ???

[Ferrero]

The idea behind the mould study was to shed some light into the world of mould and plume. 

Earlier in the year we asked for examples of both from members and then selected 10 representative cigars for testing.

Testing was undertaken by the team at Australia Biotech Laboratories.

In the event that a substance other than mould was detected, that substance would be further tested by Biotech laboratories or their partners in order to determine the nature of the substance.

The first round of testing returned with all samples proving to be one of four mould types. Catch up here: 

 

We set out again with our testing structure in place and selected 12 more samples to be sent away to Australia Biotech Laboratories.

Fast forward four months and we are back with more to discuss.

Let us begin.

 

Lot 1 - Opus X Fuente

 

Lot 2 - Custom Piramide

 

Lot 3 - Samuel Gawith Balkan Flake 2011

 

Lot 4 - Samuel Gawith St. James Flake 2017

 

Lot 5 - Samuel Gawith Sam's Flake 3+ Years

 

Lot 6 - Dunhill Flake 2013

 

Lot 7 - Ashton Blake Parrot

 

Lot 8 - GL Pease Westminster 2011

 

Lot 9 - E.A. Carey UK Balken Sobranie Match 16

 

Lot 10 - E.A. Carey UK Balken Sobranie 16

 

Lot 11 - E.A. Carey UK Balken Sobranie UK Vintage

 

Lot 12 - Lonsdale 1

 

Lot 13 - Lonsdale 2

 

 

This study was different to our last and possibly a little disappointing to some. I introduced some pipe tobacco into the testing environment as we know that some of the processes to cure pipe tobacco involve sugars. Maybe if we could find the characteristics of plume in pipe tobacco then we could look for the same in cigars. How wrong I was…

The results came in last week and I have been pondering how to best disclose the results as there’s not much to tell.

One of twelve returned an isolated fungal organism identification.

Lot 12 - Lonsdale 1 - Cladosporium Species

Cladosporium is a genus of fungi including some of the most common indoor and outdoor moulds. Species produce olive-green to brown or black colonies, and have dark-pigmented conidia that are formed in simple or branching chains. Many species of Cladosporium are commonly found on living and dead plant material. Some species are plant pathogens, others parasitize other fungi. Cladosporium spores are wind-dispersed and they are often extremely abundant in outdoor air. Indoors Cladosporium species may grow on surfaces when moisture is present.

 

 

 

The remaining eleven returned with no fungal organisms isolated. Potentially exciting, right? We could pass this onto the next phase and look into the chemical compounds, etc... Nope.

Unfortunately they came back as common bacterial plant growths. FYI - rendered harmless by the protective effects of the immune system.

What’s the difference between bacteria and mould (fungi)?

Fungi are multicellular, eukaryotic organisms, while bacteria are single-celled prokaryotes.

The cells of fungi have nuclei that contain the chromosomes and other organelles, such as mitochondria and ribosomes.

Bacteria are much smaller than fungi, do not have nuclei or other organelles and cannot reproduce sexually.

Like some moulds, bacteria also live in symbiotic and parasitic relationships with plants and animals. Most bacteria have not been characterised, and only about half of the bacterial phyla have species that can be grown in the laboratory.

Bacteria is not what we were looking for and we abandoned further testing of the bacteria less it reveal something “exotic” that would have us venturing down a dangerous path that is not what we are trying to achieve.

An interesting point to raise here though, the appearance of the matter on the cigars while cataloging under macro was dusty. Dust is a rich source of bacteria so that may explain the results?

So to date we have identified a host of moulds and a host of common bacterial plant growth.

The “reward” remains and the search continues.

[Ferrero]

Round 2 of testing complete. Read the report here:

 

[El Presidente]

fantastic work Greg 

[Wushy]

And so the search for confirmed/verified "plume" continues 

[zeedubbya]

This is awesome stuff.  Thank you for the undertaking.  I think this is revolutionary work.  I sure would be curious what the "experts" have to say about these findings.  

[LordAnubis]

So we’ve gone from “it’s not plume it’s mould, ya honkeynut!” to “it’s not mould, you’ve got a bacterial infection ya slapper!”. I’ve got an idea Rob. Antibacterial wipes for cigars

 

Fantastic work Greg and all else involved.

 

 

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[Cmelle]

Wow awesome work guys

[El Presidente]

An interesting point to raise here though, the appearance of the matter on the cigars while cataloging under macro was dusty. Dust is a rich source of bacteria so that may explain the results?

 

I think that the above is perhaps the most enlightening to me. 

We often here of "a fine dusting on my cigars"  They are the cigars that we tested in this batch along with some pipe tobacco samples that from the naked eye looked crystalline. 

In the end, these all turned out to be bacteria.  I learnt  that  dust contains a rich mix of bacteria and any sealed/unoccupied space will accumulate just as much dust as an unsealed one. 

 

From Wiki

Bacteria grow to a fixed size and then reproduce through binary fission, a form of asexual reproduction. Under optimal conditions, bacteria can grow and divide extremely rapidly, and bacterial populations can double as quickly as every 9.8 minutes. In cell division, two identical clone daughter cells are produced.

Based on the research to date, it is a fair assumption to say that "a fine dusting of plume" is most likely to be a "fine dusting of bacteria or mould"

[havanaclub]

Great work Greg!


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[Notsocleaver]

So what you are saying is that somewhere out there is a currently undocumented strain of bacteria unknown to science, but commonly observed by cigar smokers, allowing them to some how identify the finest tobacco by what grows on it? What should we call it then? Staphylococcus Plumeus?

[Jeremy Festa]

Top work mate!