I just don't get it

[Projectal]

The PLPC is definitely on my list to try, and, due to my lack of patience, I'll get to experience first hand why El Pres likes them fresh.

[Bohn007]

21 hours ago, RijkdeGooier said:

Projectal,

Classic first post

CC's are great but different to NC's in a few very important aspects.

1. The roll - NC's are rolled by doubling the leaves and CC's by bundling them. This makes for a different cigar. In a typical CC there is more tobacco by weight then an NC of the same size. As a result the draw will be more difficult and if not maintained the cigars tend to go out much faster than the NC's. As a result one should try to smoke slow and steady with CC's.

2. Age. NC's are typically good to go when they hit the market. They are kept in storage by the manufacturer until ready. CC's are not afforded that luxury anymore since the 1990's, since the Cubans 'need the money now'. Therefore this of us who like a more well-rounded cigar tend to let them rest upon arrival. Personally, I tend to smoke them with 5 years of age on them. My current RASS in rotation are from 2011 and have developed into a refined smoke.

3. Humidity. Again due to how the tobacco is rolled into the cigar, CC's tend to be more sensitive to the humidity then NC's. As a result many smokers find they smoke well at conditions (slightly) below 70 Rh.

Welcome to the world of CC's.

I too would completely agree with the above comment. Cuban cigars are best kept at a lower humidity level than NC. Many guys even eliminate the himidification altogether by "dry boxing" the cigars for a few days prior to smoking. Personally, I love RASS best after a few years. The flavors really develop at that point and they don't kick my butt like the fresh ones do. Try some Punch Punch, Upmann Connoisseur A or even a Montecristo No. 2 to start with. 

[Treva]

Could be the particular cigars, personal taste, age, humidity ... First time I picked up x5 RASS, different vendor, early into cuban cigars I smoked two fresh and thought they were harsh dog turds compared to the few other cubans I'd smoked. Did not like them. Forgot about them. Smoked a fresh RA gigantes which deserved age but smoked it fresh. Stunning, rich fruity like others describe the marca and very approachable. Smoked a lot of other cigars. Later had a dry boxed RASS with just several months age from a friend. Rich, some fruit toastiness mmm good memory... like tobacco fruit toast = much better than my stock seemed. Went back to my RA RASS 5 years later. Still a bit rough, fuller bodied than most CCs, but could taste that fruity toastiness. Enjoyable smokes, not great by my taste buds, but when I wanted that bit of a fruity slap in the face it delivered. I look forward to seeing how the next two smoke.

[semifan1]

I know others have said it before in the thread, but I truly believe you need to get some age on CC's before they are really good. Also just comes down to personal tastes. I found this out by finally being able to have enough stock to let them age. Some of my 2010 stuff is smoking great now. 

[Cohiba Stevie]

I would disagree that rass are a cigar that people love or hate. They are robusto in format and when stored  correctly are regarded as one of the  best cigars 5

To come out of havana.

Might want to recheck your storage conditions. Those symptons sound like over humidified cigars

[Projectal]

23 hours ago, Bohn007 said:

Try some Punch Punch, Upmann Connoisseur A or even a Montecristo No. 2 to start with.

As I've mentioned, I've had good luck on the 24;24. I received a box of the Punch Punch this week, and am expecting a box of the connoisseur next week. I'll try to keep my hands off them for a few months. It's going to be hard.

[Projectal]

16 hours ago, Treva said:

I look forward to seeing how the next two smoke.

I'll make sure to chime in when I can muster the courage to smoke another one in about six months.

[Projectal]

13 hours ago, semifan1 said:

 

I know others have said it before in the thread, but I truly believe you need to get some age on CC's before they are really good. Also just comes down to personal tastes. I found this out by finally being able to have enough stock to let them age. Some of my 2010 stuff is smoking great now. 

 

I'm building my stock now, and am currently looking for a second job to support my efforts. In the meantime, I will continue to smoke, and enjoy (I hope) the stock I have. 2024 is a long way away.

[Projectal]

2 hours ago, Cohiba Stevie said:

 

I would disagree that rass are a cigar that people love or hate. They are robusto in format and when stored  correctly are regarded as one of the  best cigars 5

To come out of havana.

Might want to recheck your storage conditions. Those symptons sound like over humidified cigars

 

Agreed on my storage conditions. I'm working on it, and am more than willing to give the RASS another chance. The love this cigar consistently receives is the reason I purchased them, but doesn't guarantee I will end up liking them. I don't care how many people tell me mushrooms are delicious. I would rather smoke one of my RASS as they are right now than eat one, and no one can tell me otherwise.

[SCgarman]

Are your RASS wrappers very dark colored or light golden brown. I have found the cigar to be very different depending on wrapper. Most boxes I have bought have the lighter golden brown wrappers which tend to be thinner and produce a better burn. Smoking through a MUR12 box with very dark wrappers, and it is a different animal. Wrappers tend to be thicker, the cigar is much more fickle even with 5 years of age being stored at 64-65% RH. Just smoked one today here in South Carolina where the humidity and heat was very high and the cigar needed several relights even with "babying" it. I much prefer the lighter wrappers on the RASS

[stunod]

On 6/23/2017 at 2:28 AM, Gargano said:

Just like everyone else has suggested put them in the back of your humidor and forget about them for 6 mos to a year. Buy some other boxes of CCs that Rob is telling you that are smoking well young to enjoy what CCs have to offer. Revisit your RASS when they have some age on them & you are likely to see a big improvement. If you still don't like them sell them for what you paid or likely more. There are NCs that fall short of expectations as well. 1 box shouldn't ruin your opinion. It took 10 years for the PL belicosos to hit their sweet spot & the box that I bought many years go pissed me off up until the last year. Now they are excellent. That is just the game we all play with CCs.

Try the robusto sampler. Before going blind and buying a box you have not tried, the samplers are good. ImoIMO

[vladdraq]

On 6/23/2017 at 7:53 PM, Projectal said:

Thank you all again for your input and advice. I think I'm really going to enjoy being a part of this community.

Al

Not sure if someone mentioned it, cubans tend to have a sick period. Google it.

Low humidity helps a lot to improve taste, what you eat before can be a factor too. 

Good luck. 

[PigFish]

Since getting my smart-assed answer out of my system I will share a bit of what I know about Cuban cigars.

First and foremost, no one can tell you what to like. It is all on you babe! Books, forums and popular advice are often worthless... Sorry!

Now that I have passed along the caveats lets talk some about your cigars. While many here will enjoy a cigar right off the truck, or ROTT... I don't suggest it. Why...? Well, it has nothing to do with age, but as my friend Nik and others have mentioned it has a lot to do with water content of the cigar and what parts of the cigar might be holding it. If you have not made the link between water content and cigar taste, you should try to learn it early as it will (likely) change your perspective on smoking and ultimately save you thousands in wasted cigars over a lifetime (MHO). As someone very interested in this topic, and one devoted to exploring and discussing it, I believe it is the first major mistake people make when smoking Cuban cigars.

The robusto! Yes, they are popular.... especially for expatriated NC smokers. But, you might not ultimately like the Cuban robusto selection. I don't and I have tried them all, box after box, over 30 years of smoking. We all don't like the same cigars. It is hard to grasp but plain as day!

You mention burn issues. Most will immediately jump to water content, and they will often be right about it. It is the logical first answer. But, how about construction? Newer CC are often under-filled. Under-filling will cause not only a problem with taste but with burn. From what I have read, no one asked you about draw and tunneling. It is a long shot but I will ask you now. Do you get a concave or convex ash? Do the cigars have a stiff or immoderate draw, or do they draw with ease?

If you have an easy drawing cigar that tastes like crap, water still can be a problem, but this is more likely a construction issue to water. If the cigars draw easy with high water, they will be garbage to smoke when dry as well (MHO)... Nothing will fix a poorly constructed cigar! There are no solutions and things for you to fix; it is not your fault...

Are the cigars compression tolerant? When you squeeze them are the firm and pliable or soft and mushy? These are both water and construction related problems.

So, check the firmness, the ash (cone or tunnel) and the draw... You may just have a some really crappy cigars, not associated with the model or brand as much as the poor roll. This happens, and frankly in the 20 teens, way more than it should.

I hope this helps and welcome once more to the forum...

Cheers! -Piggy

[Projectal]

17 hours ago, NYgarman said:

 

Are your RASS wrappers very dark colored or light golden brown. I have found the cigar to be very different depending on wrapper. Most boxes I have bought have the lighter golden brown wrappers which tend to be thinner and produce a better burn. Smoking through a MUR12 box with very dark wrappers, and it is a different animal. Wrappers tend to be thicker, the cigar is much more fickle even with 5 years of age being stored at 64-65% RH. Just smoked one today here in South Carolina where the humidity and heat was very high and the cigar needed several relights even with "babying" it. I much prefer the lighter wrappers on the RASS

 

I'm not really sure how to answer this as I don't have any frame of reference. It seems to me the wrapper is thicker than on most of my other cigars, but relative to other RASS? Here's a picture, what do you think?

[Projectal]

8 hours ago, vladdraq said:

Not sure if someone mentioned it, cubans tend to have a sick period. Google it.

Low humidity helps a lot to improve taste, what you eat before can be a factor too. 

Good luck. 

I have read a bit on the sick period, but it never registered that this could be an issue. The more I get into CCs, the more I realize how little I know.

[Projectal]

6 hours ago, PigFish said:

Now that I have passed along the caveats lets talk some about your cigars. While many here will enjoy a cigar right off the truck, or ROTT... I don't suggest it. Why...? Well, it has nothing to do with age, but as my friend Nik and others have mentioned it has a lot to do with water content of the cigar and what parts of the cigar might be holding it. If you have not made the link between water content and cigar taste, you should try to learn it early as it will (likely) change your perspective on smoking and ultimately save you thousands in wasted cigars over a lifetime (MHO). As someone very interested in this topic, and one devoted to exploring and discussing it, I believe it is the first major mistake people make when smoking Cuban cigars.

I admit, I have smoked a cigar ROTT from every box I received to date and have been very encouraged about my decision to give CCs a try. Most have been really good. It's really exciting to think they will get even better. In a couple months it will be easier to keep my hands off the new arrivals due to having a supply of properly acclimatized cigars.

6 hours ago, PigFish said:

The robusto! Yes, they are popular.... especially for expatriated NC smokers. But, you might not ultimately like the Cuban robusto selection. I don't and I have tried them all, box after box, over 30 years of smoking. We all don't like the same cigars. It is hard to grasp but plain as day!

I would imagine this has to do with ring gauge? Most of the NCs I smoke are huge by Cuban standards, so much so that I find I am starting to prefer the relatively smaller size of CCs. That said, I'm really liking the 48 - 50 ring gauge cigars.

 

6 hours ago, PigFish said:

You mention burn issues. Most will immediately jump to water content, and they will often be right about it. It is the logical first answer. But, how about construction? Newer CC are often under-filled. Under-filling will cause not only a problem with taste but with burn. From what I have read, no one asked you about draw and tunneling. It is a long shot but I will ask you now. Do you get a concave or convex ash? Do the cigars have a stiff or immoderate draw, or do they draw with ease?

The cigars feel solid with very little give, and have a firm, but not unpleasant draw. However, they tunnel something fierce. So if I am understanding you correctly, this point more towards moisture content?

Al

[planetary]

9 hours ago, vladdraq said:

Not sure if someone mentioned it, cubans tend to have a sick period. Google it.

Low humidity helps a lot to improve taste, what you eat before can be a factor too. 

Good luck. 

I think the generally agreed opinion is that they tend NOT to, in recent years, with occasional exceptions.  Googling reveals lots of threads on this forum on the topic.  

One such recent thread (which references a couple older threads) which I found interesting, and you might, too:

 

[cookj1]

The only thing not mentioned on this thread is the possibility of fakes.  Not all vendors are created equal.  And not all are legitimate.  Posting sources isn't kosher, but perhaps you're smoking banana leaves.

[Projectal]

12 minutes ago, planetary said:

I think the generally agreed opinion is that they tend NOT to, in recent years, with occasional exceptions.  Googling reveals lots of threads on this forum on the topic.  

One such recent thread (which references a couple older threads) which I found interesting, and you might, too:

This was an interesting read, and adds one more piece to the puzzle. I ran to the gas station while smoking one several weeks after receiving the box. As I ran in, I set the cigar in my ash tray with the windows closed. When I opened the door, the ammonia smell almost took my breath away. Needless to say, I just let that one die.

[Erm310mce]

When I was first getting into the world of Cuban cigars I had my first Rass while on vacation in Rome. I picked up a sampler with one. I lit the rass first and it was god awful, sour, harsh & bitter. I threw it out and avoided rass for years. Had a secretos next and it was fabulous. 

I then had a buddy give me one and I lit up hoping for a change, it was one of the most beautiful cigars I've had. 

I kept thinking about my preconceived notions about that lousy first one and how I avoided them because of it. 

A crappy cigar is just a crappy cigar. It happens. Cigars within a box can be very different and box to box can be very different. I have some TEB Rass from 2007 that are smoking so beautifully now, they are wonderful cigars when stored properly. Give them a chance from a different box (from rob who picks stellar ones) and compare, don't wait years like I did  

Welcome to the forum and good luck on your journey.

[SCgarman]

2 hours ago, cookj1 said:

The only thing not mentioned on this thread is the possibility of fakes.  Not all vendors are created equal.  And not all are legitimate.  Posting sources isn't kosher, but perhaps you're smoking banana leaves.

By the looks of the pic above they look very nice wrapper wise and look 100% legit. I have plenty of boxes of these in my inventory.

[BellevilleMXZ]

All great advice, and like u am fairly new to CCs. That said, it sure sounds like they are too damp. I notice a very large difference in taste depending on RH. I have some monti#4s and Open masters, that are WAY better at 68-70, yet all the other I have, are better around 62. I now keep them separate. And Robs description and aging are spot on I have found. I know the lack of patience also, as I don't have a large collection sadly, to allow me to wait, so I typically buy stuff he says don't need a lot of down time , and have been very happy with the results.Even 6 months have made a huge difference in what I have. If you haven't spend for a decent RH gauge. I have only had 1 RASS so far but it was great....Not sure of age but was froma local LCDH

I will also add I usually smoke one ROTT(ya I know...) and they have all been decent.....but then shortly get a little "off". Then after a couple of months come back even better. I know not the recommended way on here, but I have no choice based on the age I have, and probably always willI simply can't afford to have a huge stock to age. THATS why I buy based on what Rob says is smoking well with little downtime.

[vladdraq]

4 hours ago, planetary said:

I think the generally agreed opinion is that they tend NOT to, in recent years, with occasional exceptions.  Googling reveals lots of threads on this forum on the topic.  

One such recent thread (which references a couple older threads) which I found interesting, and you might, too:

 

It happened to me recently, probably was an occasional exception, but ( i assume) with a whole box? Weird a bit. Smoked pretty fine last fall and disgusting this spring, Siglo 6's, i randomly tried another one (after throwing the first away) and it was the same yuck. Chucked 2 cigars in 1 h. I really hope they'll come back, if that's not a sick period not sure what is then. Buried the box though for at leas a year.

[Projectal]

3 hours ago, Erm310mce said:

 

When I was first getting into the world of Cuban cigars I had my first Rass while on vacation in Rome. I picked up a sampler with one. I lit the rass first and it was god awful, sour, harsh & bitter. I threw it out and avoided rass for years. Had a secretos next and it was fabulous. 

I then had a buddy give me one and I lit up hoping for a change, it was one of the most beautiful cigars I've had. 

I kept thinking about my preconceived notions about that lousy first one and how I avoided them because of it. 

A crappy cigar is just a crappy cigar. It happens. Cigars within a box can be very different and box to box can be very different. I have some TEB Rass from 2007 that are smoking so beautifully now, they are wonderful cigars when stored properly. Give them a chance from a different box (from rob who picks stellar ones) and compare, don't wait years like I did  

Welcome to the forum and good luck on your journey.

 

Based on the comments I've received, as well as yours, I'm not going to give up on them. They are already transferred out of my winador and into a Tupperware container with a boveda pack to see if it is a humidity (storage) issue. I'll try again in six months and see how they taste.

[Projectal]

4 hours ago, cookj1 said:

The only thing not mentioned on this thread is the possibility of fakes.  Not all vendors are created equal.  And not all are legitimate.  Posting sources isn't kosher, but perhaps you're smoking banana leaves.

I'll never be able to discount the possibility, but, without going into details on the vendor, I'm as certain I can possibly be that they are authentic.