Cuba Starts Preparing Next Tobacco Crop

[El Presidente]

No....I can't understand half of what they are saying either....but I get the gist 

 

http://www.plenglish.com/index.php?o=rn&id=11595&SEO=cuba-starts-preparing-next-tobacco-crop

Cuba Starts Preparing Next Tobacco Crop

 

Pinar del Río, Cuba, Apr 12 (Prensa Latina) The western province of Pinar del Rio starts today labors for the next tobacco campaign which will extend to 19 thousand hectares, according to the program to develop the crop.

 

Virginio Morales, senior specialist of the crop, said farmers are now intent on contributing to the conservation and improvement of soilsespecialista with the application of organic matter, calcium carbonate and other elements.

He explained at present farmers locate areas destined for seedbeds which will guarantee the future sowing and start hiring producers.

For this stage, the greatest producer of the leaf in the country will increase the areas dedicated to light tobacco with which they expect to cover 400 hectares starting with the insertion of the Pinar del Rio and San Luis municipalities in the Virginia project that advances in Consolacion del Sur.

The harvest of the leaves continues in the fields where over 26 million cujes have been harvested of the 30 million planned, despite the severe drought there are conditions necessary to comply the technical economic plan of 19 thousand tons of tobacco destined to the national industry.

 

[SloppyJ]

Not totally off topic but I have a question. 

This came from a local BM, but I've heard rumblings about how Cuban crops just can't keep up with NCs. Specifically that the Cuban soil isn't properly maintained or amended each year. By this, I mean supplemental fertilizers, lime to adjust pH, or anything else that could be utilized to help soil fertility. Is there any truth to this or is it all just hearsay? As someone with education on this matter, I find it hard to believe that they could sustain a crop for the amount of time that they have without any sort of supplements. 

Thanks guys! 

 

[dominattorney]

51 minutes ago, SloppyJ said:

Not totally off topic but I have a question. 

This came from a local BM, but I've heard rumblings about how Cuban crops just can't keep up with NCs. Specifically that the Cuban soil isn't properly maintained or amended each year. By this, I mean supplemental fertilizers, lime to adjust pH, or anything else that could be utilized to help soil fertility. Is there any truth to this or is it all just hearsay? As someone with education on this matter, I find it hard to believe that they could sustain a crop for the amount of time that they have without any sort of supplements. 

Thanks guys! 

 

I've heard that as well, and here is my uneducated take. Non Cuban tobacco pushers are liars. They tell you that such and such new brand tastes just like a partagas sd4. The thing is an oscuro wrapped 80 ring 6 inch monster. Complete pepper bomb. Non Cuban hucksters also convinced me that plume was a thing. I am skeptical of most of their theories. 

[SignalJoe]

3 hours ago, El Presidente said:

The harvest of the leaves continues in the fields where over 26 million cujes have been harvested of the 30 million planned, despite the severe drought there are conditions necessary to comply the technical economic plan of 19 thousand tons of tobacco destined to the national industry.

 

Severe drought?  Haven't we been seeing articles of perfect weather conditions and record crops in 2017?  Are they referencing previous years? 

[Corylax18]

15 minutes ago, SignalJoe said:

Severe drought?  Haven't we been seeing articles of perfect weather conditions and record crops in 2017?  Are they referencing previous years? 

Drought (to a certain extant) is perfect for growing tobacco. It allows the farmers to control the "stress" levels on the plants. Most of the Fincas in PDL have access to a stream or underground water source and prefer to irrigate only as much as the plants need. Too little rain is far better than too much in this respect. 

The Fertilizer/Soil amendment question is another issue, partially true, partially not. Chemical fertilizers need to be imported to Cuba, so there is typically not much to go around. Some of the farmers don't like using it even if it is available. They would prefer to use "organics" manure, chopped fish, tobacco/fruit plant chaff, really whatever they can get there hands on. 

There are two things at play. They know the science and art of growing the tobacco very well by now, but if you don't consistently have the proper amounts of raw materials at the right time, that knowledge can only get you so far.

[Jimmy_jack]

2 hours ago, dominattorney said:

I've heard that as well, and here is my uneducated take. Non Cuban tobacco pushers are liars. They tell you that such and such new brand tastes just like a partagas sd4. The thing is an oscuro wrapped 80 ring 6 inch monster. Complete pepper bomb. Non Cuban hucksters also convinced me that plume was a thing. I am skeptical of most of their theories. 

This. My guess as well, but I've heard a local B&M saying how CC are just terrible with zero quality control, blah blah blah. Meanwhile he is suggesting a smoke that was new to the shop and tastes like rolled up dirt. 

[Nino]

2 hours ago, SignalJoe said:

Severe drought?  Haven't we been seeing articles of perfect weather conditions and record crops in 2017?  Are they referencing previous years? 

Both weather and harvest have been perfect - still,Cuba has been suffering from a severe drought since 2014.

http://en.granma.cu/cuba/2016-05-04/drought-continues-to-affect-cuba

 

https://www.cubanet.org/facebook/cuba-tardara-dos-anos-en-recuperarse-de-la-sequia/

 

[NSXCIGAR]

2 hours ago, SloppyJ said:

This came from a local BM, but I've heard rumblings about how Cuban crops just can't keep up with NCs. Specifically that the Cuban soil isn't properly maintained or amended each year. By this, I mean supplemental fertilizers, lime to adjust pH, or anything else that could be utilized to help soil fertility. Is there any truth to this or is it all just hearsay? As someone with education on this matter, I find it hard to believe that they could sustain a crop for the amount of time that they have without any sort of supplements. 

This sounds like classic NC propaganda. Taking a small grain of truth and extrapolating it to show how CCs must be inferior. They do the same thing with the marginally lower consistency from box-to-box and year-to-year of CCs and extrapolate it to state that CCs are no good because of bad QC. They've been saying that garbage for years.

The truth is that NC producers have all the advantages that Cuba lacks--capital, equipment, chemicals, soil rest, higher wages, competition--but their best still can't match Cuba's best. It's all about the soil and the climate. There's a reason why no one ever thought to produce premium cigar tobacco commercially outside of Cuba prior to the Embargo, particularly at a time when cigars were very much in fashion. I'm sure it was well understood that the tobacco grown elsewhere was in a different league from that of Cuba and it wasn't worth even trying. 

It's taken many decades and hundreds of millions of dollars of capital and the highest levels of technology and science for NC producers to try to achieve the characteristics that Cuban tobacco has naturally. To their credit, they have come a very, very long way. But these Cuban peasant farmers using fish gut fertilizer, oxen plows and burnt-out soil still regularly pump out quality that NC producers can only dream of. Producing high-quality tobacco outside of Cuba is an extremely costly uphill battle that may simply never be won. With tobacco, there is no way around the soil, climate and the geographic region in which it is grown, and Pinar del Rio is unique on Earth. 

[teamrandr]

There was plenty of commercial tobacco grown outside of Cuba prior  to the Embargo.  Havana tobacco was the and still is the benchmark.  

[MPfit]

Florida, like Cuba, has had great weather for a while; but the lack of rain (drought) is now causing fires all over the state. I hate to say I hope for a busy hurricane season but we need one (safe season of course but rain is needed!)

[SloppyJ]

2 hours ago, Hutch said:

I've long thought that this is precisely why Cuban tobacco is superior...at least for my preference. Too much inorganic fertilizer...too much concentration on sheer yield...leads to a different, inferior, end product. I liken it to the difference between homegrown tomatoes and those mass produced by Big Agriculture. JMO though 

I think there are a lot more factors than simply the type of fertilizer applied to tomatoes but I understand what you're getting at. Plant variety and the scale of the grow are probably the two biggest. Along with the fact that I'm sure there's some sort of preservative on them.

However, I don't believe that Cuba could have sustained a substantial crop over the years without some sort of soil fertility amendments or intelligent farming practices. Granted they aren't going to be using the most technological advances, they're doing something to uphold the sheer volume of tobacco that's grown. It sounded really fishy to me when I heard this at my local BM but I'm respectful enough to let others have their own uninformed opinions. They think I'm a snob because I prefer CCs. I just think they're better. I'm not above smoking a NC but if I'm spending money, I'm going to buy what I prefer. 

Thank you all for the time to help answer my questions. 

[NSXCIGAR]

7 hours ago, teamrandr said:

There was plenty of commercial tobacco grown outside of Cuba prior  to the Embargo.  Havana tobacco was the and still is the benchmark.  

Not for premium cigars exported worldwide there wasn't. The producers that knew how to grow high-quality tobacco didn't even arrive in these other countries until they were forced out of Cuba. And they could have left any time prior to ply their trade in the DR or Honduras. I'm sure life wasn't rosy under Batista either, but they chose to stay in Cuba and grow there. There's no doubt that it was well known that attempting to grow premium leaf outside of Cuba was not economically viable.

The DR was growing cigarette tobacco almost exclusively prior to the Revolution. Even post-Rev, when premium wrapper was attempted to be grown there it proved nearly impossible until Fuente managed to do so successfully in the late 1980s/early 1990s.

Honduras had always produced very strong and harsh tobacco unsuitable for most tastes. The natives, locals and Spanish colonials did smoke cigars made from the local wild tobacco known as the "copaneco". Also, the weather in Honduras is fairly unsuitable for premium plants as it is extremely windy and rainy in most areas. Shade-grown is not really an option there. Much of the tobacco is forced into valleys with surrounding tents and king grass needed to protect the plants from the extreme wind. Not exactly efficient production compared to Cuba.

Nicaragua has no history of growing tobacco prior to the 1920s when a ban on tobacco growing was lifted. But between the 1920s and the 1960s, it appears no premium tobacco was grown. Nicargua's oldest brand is of course Joya de Nicaragua, which was established in 1968. So why didn't tobacco become a cash crop for Nicaragua between the 1920s and the 1960s? Probably because it was tried when the ban was lifted and results were not good and would have taken enormous capital and refinements to perfect. Coffee and cattle were deemed much more economically viable. 

[teamrandr]

1 hour ago, NSXCIGAR said:

Not for premium cigars exported worldwide there wasn't. The producers that knew how to grow high-quality tobacco didn't even arrive in these other countries until they were forced out of Cuba. And they could have left any time prior to ply their trade in the DR or Honduras. I'm sure life wasn't rosy under Batista either, but they chose to stay in Cuba and grow there. There's no doubt that it was well known that attempting to grow premium leaf outside of Cuba was not economically viable.

The DR was growing cigarette tobacco almost exclusively prior to the Revolution. Even post-Rev, when premium wrapper was attempted to be grown there it proved nearly impossible until Fuente managed to do so successfully in the late 1980s/early 1990s.

Honduras had always produced very strong and harsh tobacco unsuitable for most tastes. The natives, locals and Spanish colonials did smoke cigars made from the local wild tobacco known as the "copaneco". Also, the weather in Honduras is fairly unsuitable for premium plants as it is extremely windy and rainy in most areas. Shade-grown is not really an option there. Much of the tobacco is forced into valleys with surrounding tents and king grass needed to protect the plants from the extreme wind. Not exactly efficient production compared to Cuba.

Nicaragua has no history of growing tobacco prior to the 1920s when a ban on tobacco growing was lifted. But between the 1920s and the 1960s, it appears no premium tobacco was grown. Nicargua's oldest brand is of course Joya de Nicaragua, which was established in 1968. So why didn't tobacco become a cash crop for Nicaragua between the 1920s and the 1960s? Probably because it was tried when the ban was lifted and results were not good and would have taken enormous capital and refinements to perfect. Coffee and cattle were deemed much more economically viable. 

There was plenty of tobacco  grown outside of Cuba.  India and the US were large producers.  Sumatra wrappers were considered to be some of the finest worldwide.   I agree that the Embargo brought about Premium tobacco industries in Nicaragua  and Dominican  Republic.  However Tobacco was grown in very large amounts in many places besides Cuba.  I would check this site out if you haven't already: cigarhistory.info

[NSXCIGAR]

3 minutes ago, teamrandr said:

There was plenty of tobacco  grown outside of Cuba.  India and the US were large producers.  Sumatra wrappers were considered to be some of the finest worldwide.   I agree that the Embargo brought about Premium tobacco industries in Nicaragua  and Dominican  Republic.  However Tobacco was grown in very large amounts in many places besides Cuba.  I would check this site out if you haven't already: cigarhistory.info

Yes, that's true, but not for premium cigars that competed with Cuban premium cigars. I can't find anything indicating that Sumatran tobacco grown in Indonesia was viable for premium cigars. It wasn't until the 1950s that the Sumatran wrapper was grown successfully in Ecuador, and of course is used for today's premium cigars. 

This is a discussion about premium cigars. I'm not denying tobacco has been grown worldwide for centuries but not for premium cigars until the 1950s and 1960s and was utterly terrible until the late 1980s/early 1990s. The reason for this is the inherent advantage Cuba has in growing premium leaf. I don't think this is a hurdle that can ever be overcome in an economically viable way. The cost to grow tobacco that can compete with Cuba's best (if it's even possible) would result in cigar prices much higher than Cuba's and therefore not economically viable. The only reason NCs are viable now is because the US market has had an artificial barrier for the NCs to compete for 60 years.

It's clear that better technology, capital and QC have not yet produced cigars that can compete with Cuba's best, and all the justification in the world can't substitute for the natural conditions that Cuba has in terms of soil, climate and weather which have been proven over 60 years to be the most important factor in premium cigar tobacco.

[NSXCIGAR]

5 hours ago, SloppyJ said:

However, I don't believe that Cuba could have sustained a substantial crop over the years without some sort of soil fertility amendments or intelligent farming practices. Granted they aren't going to be using the most technological advances, they're doing something to uphold the sheer volume of tobacco that's grown.

I don't know if that's necessarily true. Pinar del Rio could simply be that much more suitable for premium cigar tobacco. The ease with which it can be grown there appears to be unmatched. I do certainly think that the addition of the capital, technology and QC that the top NC producers currently implement would only benefit Cuba further and increase the already high quality, but those things apparently aren't necessary for Cuba to produce the best premium leaf in the world. 

[SloppyJ]

3 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

I don't know if that's necessarily true. Pinar del Rio could simply be that much more suitable for premium cigar tobacco. The ease with which it can be grown there appears to be unmatched. I do certainly think that the addition of the capital, technology and QC that the top NC producers currently implement would only benefit Cuba further and increase the already high quality, but those things apparently aren't necessary for Cuba to produce the best premium leaf in the world. 

I'm not disagreeing that Cuba is in the prime location for tobacco production but you can't create biomass from thin air. The nutrients are pulled from the soil. Without replenishment, the fields will be fallow. Check that link out. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26566613

 

 

 

[NSXCIGAR]

2 minutes ago, SloppyJ said:

I'm not disagreeing that Cuba is in the prime location for tobacco production but you can't create biomass from thin air. The nutrients are pulled from the soil. Without replenishment, the fields will be fallow. Check that link out. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26566613

Cuba does use fertilizers as pointed out above--just generally organic low-tech ones like manure, fish guts and vegetation chaff. There are limited amounts of high-tech chemical fertilizers to go around, and some farmers prefer not to use them even if they are available. Why assume these organics aren't effective and plentiful enough to produce high-quality plants year-over-year?

 

[Smallclub]

4 hours ago, teamrandr said:

 Sumatra wrappers were considered to be some of the finest worldwide.  

By who exactly? Sumatra wrappers were considered quality wrapper only in the world of machine made, dry/“dutch” cigars. There was no premium cigar with sumatra wrapper.

[Smallclub]

29 minutes ago, SloppyJ said:

I'm not disagreeing that Cuba is in the prime location for tobacco production but you can't create biomass from thin air. The nutrients are pulled from the soil. Without replenishment, the fields will be fallow. Check that link out. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26566613

You've never heard of organic farming?

[SloppyJ]

10 minutes ago, Smallclub said:

You've never heard of organic farming?

Actually I know all about it. A keystone to organic farming is crop rotation. Historically, Cuba has been a monoculture mentality. They aren't alternating legumes to fix nitrogen or implementing a no-till mentality. At least until recently according to the article below. 

Kind of hard to be accurate on your field when you're not getting a soil test. You're throwing darts at that point. fish here, chicken poop there..... 

Obviously whatever they are doing is working for them and they've made it by using what they can. Kudos to them. I was just curious of the methods. 

I just found this document and started reading it. It's very well written and is the perfect accompany piece for this thread. Enjoy! 

http://campus.usal.es/~ehe/Papers/Microsoft Word - Towards sustainable agriculture in Cuba 1st August[1].pdf

[NSXCIGAR]

10 minutes ago, SloppyJ said:

Actually I know all about it. A keystone to organic farming is crop rotation. Historically, Cuba has been a monoculture mentality. They aren't alternating legumes to fix nitrogen or implementing a no-till mentality. At least until recently according to the article below. 

Kind of hard to be accurate on your field when you're not getting a soil test. You're throwing darts at that point. fish here, chicken poop there..... 

Obviously whatever they are doing is working for them and they've made it by using what they can. Kudos to them. I was just curious of the methods. 

I just found this document and started reading it. It's very well written and is the perfect accompany piece for this thread. Enjoy! 

http://campus.usal.es/~ehe/Papers/Microsoft Word - Towards sustainable agriculture in Cuba 1st August[1].pdf

This article seems to indicate there have been advances in the approach to crop rotation. I'm sure they're aware of it and practicing it effectively. Just because they're using 19th century farming methods doesn't mean they don't have 21st century agricultural knowledge. And even in the 19th century the concept of crop rotation and organic fertilization was well understood.

http://www.ahora.cu/en/sections/cuba/more-of-cuba/14289-cuba-s-rapid-transition-to-sustainable-agriculture

[teamrandr]

14 hours ago, Smallclub said:

By who exactly? Sumatra wrappers were considered quality wrapper only in the world of machine made, dry/“dutch” cigars. There was no premium cigar with sumatra wrapper.

That's simply just not true.  The sumatra wrapper  came out before machines  were used. 

"Sumatra was introduced at the 1876 centennial and took over the wrapper market, wrapping about 60% of all US cigars of all price ranges in less than a decade. It was light, strong, more  leaf per pound, stretchy, less wasteful, good color...more expensive to buy than  Havana and Connecticut, the other two wrappers, but more cost effective for most users.

Tony Hyman, Curator

www.CigarHistory.info"

[Cigar Surgeon]

21 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

Nicaragua has no history of growing tobacco prior to the 1920s when a ban on tobacco growing was lifted. But between the 1920s and the 1960s, it appears no premium tobacco was grown. Nicargua's oldest brand is of course Joya de Nicaragua, which was established in 1968. So why didn't tobacco become a cash crop for Nicaragua between the 1920s and the 1960s? Probably because it was tried when the ban was lifted and results were not good and would have taken enormous capital and refinements to perfect. Coffee and cattle were deemed much more economically viable. 

I can speak to this, since I've been to Nicaragua now more times than I can count.

One doesn't just up and decide to grow tobacco. You need expertise in tobacco agriculture, cultivation, curing, fermentation. None of these skills were present in Nicaragua ... because they didn't grow tobacco. It's a chicken and egg thing.

The embargo changed all that of course, and it turns out that the soil in Nicaragua is ideal for growing a variety of products, including tobacco.

[NSXCIGAR]

3 hours ago, teamrandr said:

That's simply just not true.  The sumatra wrapper  came out before machines  were used. 

"Sumatra was introduced at the 1876 centennial and took over the wrapper market, wrapping about 60% of all US cigars of all price ranges in less than a decade. It was light, strong, more  leaf per pound, stretchy, less wasteful, good color...more expensive to buy than  Havana and Connecticut, the other two wrappers, but more cost effective for most users.

Tony Hyman, Curator

www.CigarHistory.info"

Very likely true, but most US cigars at the time were not considered premium and were probably in the same quality league as the Dutch cigars. Premium US cigars, while possibly utilizing CT or Sumatran wrapper, almost certainly used Havana filler.

[Smallclub]

2 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

Very likely true, but most US cigars at the time were not considered premium and were probably in the same quality league as the Dutch cigars.

Exactly. US≠the world… Sumatra wrapper has never been considered as premium in Europe…