New Air Thermoelectric Cigar Cooler...or Cigar Heat Pump

[SaintMickey®]

So its getting warm in the South but no worries I have a New Air Cooler. AH well maybe...

I had the vent closed in this downstairs room so when the heat came on the room stayed cool during the winter. It is what the wife calls "the cigar room".  Came home today and although the a/c turned on that room also didn't get any a/c because the vent is closed.

My unit was not able to maintain 65 degrees. I called Air-N-Water ( and the point of this post) and found out that if a room gets near 80 the unit "isn't going to work that well" or maintain the temperature I desire.  The brochure says if your near 80 you won't maintain 55...I can't maintain below 70.

Here is where I admit my ignorance...I had no idea there was not a compressor and all these kept the inside cooler with was a fan (what they call a cooling kit". Basically I have a Cigar Heat Pump!

Just sharing this in case anyone didn't know or like me expected this to keep cool in a "warmer room" . I am sure many might want to use these in a garage or shed man cave. Be careful.  I will open the vent and cool the room but not what I thought I bought. Also it makes the price I paid, even at 50% off at Christmas, too much for what it is.

They sent me info below in the meantime. Also they are sending me a new "cooling unit" (fan) to see if that helps. 

I hope this helps someone in the future... 

How Thermoelectric Coolers Work

If you've been shopping for a wine cooler or wine chiller to house your growing collection of fine wines, you have probably discovered two distinct types: compressor and thermoelectric. While these coolers may look the same on the outside, there is a world of difference in how they operate. If you're going to invest a few hundred dollars or more in an appliance for your home, it's a good idea to know about the technology you're paying for.

A compressor wine cooler operates just like the refrigerator in your kitchen. A liquid refrigerant (Freon) circulates through a compressor system that produces cold air inside the refrigerator and expels hot air externally. The advantage of this kind of this cooling is that it can reach very cold temperatures - our AWC-330E units can cool down to 39°F, which is great not only for chilling white wines but also for keeping other beverages and food at safe storage temps. But because there are a lot of moving parts in this system, it can be noisy - just like the refrigerator in your kitchen. Not to mention that refrigerants present certain ecological concerns by introducing CFCs and HCFC-s into the environment.

The Principles of Thermoelectric Cooling

In contrast, thermoelectric coolers are environmentally safe, since they don't have any hazardous materials fueling the cooling process. Thermoelectric cooling relies on the Peltier effect, named for the 19th century scientist who discovered it. When an electric charge is sent through two joined pieces of metal it creates a heat flux, and heat is transferred from one side of the device to the other. One side gets hot and the other side gets cold. The core cooling device (called a heat pump) is small, not much more than an inch square, with semiconductor wires embedded between the two ceramic plates:

Because it is small and has no moving parts, a thermoelectric heat pump operates silently, which is a big advantage over the usual sort of refrigerator that uses vapor compression to provide cooling.

In a wine cooler, the heat pump is combined with a heat sink - a large, passive component made up of stacks of aluminum fins that allow heat to dissipate efficiently. The cold side of the combined heat pump-heat sink is inserted into the interior of the wine cooler, and the hot side extends out the back of the compartment (though protected by a back panel on the unit).

Fans attached to each side of the heat sink improve the unit's ventilation, circulating the cool air inside more evenly and expelling heat outside more effectively.

Thermoelectric Limitations

There are some important limitations to the effectiveness of a thermoelectric cooler that you should be aware of before you buy one.

1. They don't get as cold as a compressor cooler. On average, most thermoelectric coolers won't cool below 50°F, though you will find some (like our dual zone AW-210ED) that can go as low as 44°F.
2. They don't work when it's too hot. Unlike a refrigerator, a thermoelectric cooler doesn't produce cold air. What it does is remove the heat from inside the cooler compartment. This means that when the temperature is too hot (over 80°F) it will have trouble removing enough heat to keep the temperature at the ideal wine storage level of 55°F.
3. They don't work when it's too cold. There is no mechanism to add heat into wine cooler, so when the ambient temperature drops below 50°F, the temperature inside will drop as well, affecting the storage conditions of your wine.

What this means is that before you select a thermoelectric wine cooler, be sure to check the manufacturer's specifications. Make sure it has a thermostat range that matches your wine storage preferences, and be sure to follow the recommendations for ambient temperatures. These coolers are meant to be used indoors in controlled environments, not in garages, sheds or outside.

Thermoelectric Cooler Advantages

As has already been noted, one of the big advantages of thermoelectric wine coolers versus compressor wine coolers is that they are environmentally safe, because they don't use refrigerants that have been linked to ozone depletion. When operating under proper conditions, they also use less electricity to operate than a compressor system, which benefits both the environment and your wallet.

They are also much quieter than regular refrigerators, since the only moving parts are the small internal fans. This means they won't intrude on your indoor environment - or keep you from enjoying your favorite show on TV!

Another positive side-effect of no moving parts is that a thermoelectric wine cooler is almost virtually vibration free. This means your prized wines won't be continually upset, and the natural sedimentation process that occurs as wine ages won't be disturbed. In other words, your wine will taste better when you're ready to drink it.

Also improving the quality of your wine is the more consistent interior temperature. While a compressor cooler might fluctuate as much 10 degrees from top to bottom, a thermoelectric cooler maintains a more even temperature throughout the cooler.

Getting the Most out of Your Thermoelectric Wine Cooler

To get the best performance from your thermoelectric wine cooler, keep the following guidelines in mind:

1. Make sure you keep it where the ambient temperature is in the recommended range of 50° to 80°F.
2. Leave at least 5" of clearance around the cooler (for freestanding units) to allow proper ventilation. If there is not enough ventilation to disperse heat effectively, the heat pump will overheat and burn out. This is the number one reason why thermoelectric wine coolers fail!
3. For the above reason, do not ever install a freestanding thermoelectric wine cooler into your cabinetry. Units that are meant to be built-in have special ventilation mechanisms visible on the front of the unit, just like your refrigerator.
4. If the wine cooler seems to be making too much noise, make sure it is positioned on a level surface and evenly balanced. NewAir thermoelectric wine coolers have adjustable leveling feet that let you compensate for uneven flooring.
5. If leveling the cooler does not alleviate the noise problem, one of the fans in the unit might be obstructed. See if you can spot anything on or around the fans that might be making it spin noisily.

[JohnS]

Nice article and information, Mickey!

[Ivaylo]

Yep i have same problem. Ambient temp around 78 inside cooler wont go under 70..it just doesnt do what its supposed to do.i just use it as a storage and i hope no beetles outbreak. ( i freeze everything for 3 days at -5F)

[scap99]

To add to your particular situation.  You can add a zone damper to the register feeding that room.

 

It is just a simple thermostat, motorized damper, and a transformer.  You might be able to find it at one of the online places like Amazon.

[Dimmers]

Note also that if you stuff the cooler to the gills with boxes, if wont maintain described temps. Leaving adequate room inside the cooler for airflow is critical. Install an extra fan if necessary to assist with this.

[SaintMickey®]

1 hour ago, Dimmers said:

Note also that if you stuff the cooler to the gills with boxes, if wont maintain described temps. Leaving adequate room inside the cooler for airflow is critical. Install an extra fan if necessary to assist with this.

Understood...been working since November filled-up the same as now...my cigar heat pump just sucks.

[WoadyCypress]

Great information, I'm actually looking into one of these type of coolers now. This gives me some thoughts to take into consideration. My closet where I keep my humidor now holds below 74 usually and I'm trying to get my sticks below 70. Now I'm wondering if this is achievable with one of these units.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[CaptainQuintero]

  Just remember, with any unit that provides cooling the unit will also be introducing water vapour into your humidor.

  Unless you have also added a system to your humidor to remove this water vapour you're going to eventually run into problems associated with too much water vapour ie mould/water pooling 

[SaintMickey®]

7 minutes ago, CaptainQuintero said:

  Just remember, with any unit that provides cooling the unit will also be introducing water vapour into your humidor.

  Unless you have also added a system to your humidor to remove this water vapour you're going to eventually run into problems associated with too much water vapour ie mould/water pooling 

I use an Oasis XL and have experienced no problems. 

[WoadyCypress]

  Just remember, with any unit that provides cooling the unit will also be introducing water vapour into your humidor.

  Unless you have also added a system to your humidor to remove this water vapour you're going to eventually run into problems associated with too much water vapour ie mould/water pooling 

Wouldn't a batch of non hydrated 65% head pull the water vapour out of the space?

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[WoadyCypress]

Wouldn't a batch of non hydrated 65% beads pull the water vapour out of the space?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[SaintMickey®]

 Others can chime in but I don't believe this type of unit produces too much moisture.

I wish it did that would mean it would have a condenser and freon and I wouldn't have my temperature problem!!!

 Let me also add I've been running this sucker nonstop since November with an oasis XL and never had high moisture. 

[PigFish]

 

16 hours ago, SaintMickey® said:

Unlike a refrigerator, a thermoelectric cooler doesn't produce cold air. What it does is remove the heat from inside the cooler compartment.

WTF does that mean! All a cooler or heater does is transfer energy from one 'source' to or from an environment. These 'people' who sell this stuff are responsible for more misinformation than just about any other site, short of lizard people living under the ocean, that I have ever read...

TE coolers are just not that efficient. They are cheap, that is why the coolers are cheap... Wine coolers based on these systems are easy to produce and therefore the profit margin on them is far greater than a compressor cooler. This is why they make them!

16 hours ago, SaintMickey® said:

Another positive side-effect of no moving parts is that a thermoelectric wine cooler is almost virtually vibration free.

No moving parts....? Really! What do you call a fan?

One other issue you should know about. If you let the exterior heat sink get clogged up with dust 'bunnies' and the fan stops working, the damn thing will expel energy (that is heat mates) from both sides, turning your humidor into an "EasyBake" oven for cigars! I have experienced this first hand.

... I am not going to bother with the rest of the propaganda that I have found on this company's site, as it is a waste of my time.

Refrigeration systems all have shortcomings. Building a controlled humidor on a refrigerated platform is a matter of tradeoffs. I don't use TE coolers, but it is a matter of taste!

Here is why!

-the Pig

[SaintMickey®]

@PigFish Just to be clear that's what they sent me. Your quoting it like I personally said it.  And I agree WTF. 

Glad to get the word out on these over priced POS. 

[PigFish]

1 hour ago, CaptainQuintero said:

  Just remember, with any unit that provides cooling the unit will also be introducing water vapour into your humidor.

... this is not true my friend! Water vapor is not 'introduced' or generated by any cooling system, not by any strict definition of introduced. It may introduce water that it has removed, and this might be what you meant here.

Here is what all cooling systems do. Any time a cold object is introduced into a space that contains water vapor, where that cold object is at or near the dew point for that space, water will condense on the cold object. If the object is cold enough, the water will freeze!

What a cooling cycle does, is actually remove water vapor from space. They make it dryer. This is the reason why your AC in your car runs when you switch the environment system in your car to 'defrost.'

That 'collected' water must go somewhere. It is either collected as in a refrigerator (a frost free model) and conveyed outside the cooler for evaporation, or it is reintroduced to the internals of the system if allowed to evaporate naturally. This might be what you meant by 'introduce' water.

This is all apart of a 'forced' cooling cycle with regards to air temperature and water vapor in space.

Active refrigeration drys space (generally). Only a poorly designed one (in a humidor for example) will allow that water to return without a means to control it. This is a huge problem with solid surface humidors. It is the reason that I believe none of them work completely without a dehydrate cycle. (MHO)

-Piggy

[PigFish]

7 minutes ago, SaintMickey® said:

@PigFish Just to be clear that's what they sent me. Your quoting it like I personally said it.  And I agree WTF. 

Glad to get the word out on these over priced POS. 

...not my intent. You just posted it. I am criticizing it, not you! Regardless of who wrote it or posted it... It is hogwash.

Go read their humidor site!!! They claim that TE coolers don't cause dehydration! That would mean that they don't work (in the real world).

One of these days I am going to buy one of these things, put 3 well placed data loggers in it, and make a expose of what nonsense all this TE cooler humidor rhetoric really is.

Cheers! -the Pig

[PigFish]

16 hours ago, SaintMickey® said:

If leveling the cooler does not alleviate the noise problem, one of the fans in the unit might be obstructed. See if you can spot anything on or around the fans that might be making it spin noisily.

... but wait there's more!

Did they not say in the previous paragraph that there are no moving parts therefore no noise? Then they tell you how to fix a noise problem...

This crap is comical to say the least. -tP

[WoadyCypress]

With all this being said, would a RE cooler work well I'd the ambient temperature stayed below say 76f?

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[WoadyCypress]

TE cooler* damn autocorrect!

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[PigFish]

2 minutes ago, WoadyCypress said:

With all this being said, would a RE cooler work well I'd the ambient temperature stayed below say 76f?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
 

... it is not really about 'one' temperature and 'working.' It is about the delta T, and your definition of working.

This is my definition of working. This is a generation 8 design cooler, going back to 2014 as the ambient temp approaches 90F.

Working is defined by a humidor administrator. I define it via empirical testing... Everyone has their own standard.

I introduced data logging to this field separating the personal opinions from facts!

So if I answer your question and St. Mick answer your question it will likely be different. At my level, these simple designs don't work (MHO). I have tested them many years ago when I tried to build on them. Yet Mick claims success based on the criteria that he sets for himself just as I do for myself. I am right in my world and he is right in his. The answer is relative to whom you ask. There is therefore no correct answer, just opinions and some facts for those that wish to look for them and document them.

Cheers! -Piggy

[WoadyCypress]

... it is not really about 'one' temperature and 'working.' It is about the delta T, and your definition of working.



This is my definition of working. This is a generation 8 design cooler, going back to 2014 as the ambient temp approaches 90F.

Working is defined by a humidor administrator. I define it via empirical testing... Everyone has their own standard.

I introduced data logging to this field separating the personal opinions from facts!

So if I answer your question and St. Mick answer your question it will likely be different. At my level, these simple designs don't work (MHO). I have tested them many years ago when I tried to build on them. Yet Mick claims success based on the criteria that he sets for himself just as I do for myself. I am right in my world and he is right in his. The answer is relative to whom you ask. There is therefore no correct answer, just opinions and some facts for those that wish to look for them and document them.

Cheers! -Piggy

Thanks, so in theory it should be able to keep my sticks at -70°f and it would be up to me to maintain the desired 65% humidity. Granted I can maintain an ambient temperature low enough for efficient cooling.

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[PigFish]

43 minutes ago, WoadyCypress said:

 

Thanks, so in theory it should be able to keep my sticks at -70°f and it would be up to me to maintain the desired 65% humidity. Granted I can maintain an ambient temperature low enough for efficient cooling.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
 

 

In theory, many things can happen.

My example (above) is a compressor wine cooler humidor. It is an engineered product, the 8th generation of my original design, not a hodgepodge of parts.

Hopefully you will get supporting opinions from those who build humidors from NewAir devices using methodology different than my own. They will have answers for you. Lot of guys build humidors on this platform and many are happy with the results. Someone will likely chime in here and tell you it is all okay. I am the wrong person for that answer...! I don't build on that platform, rely on passive humidity products or purchase an active solutions from other suppliers. I make (or have made for me) all my own products. I will therefore only recommend products that I have personally tested. TE coolers and NewAir products are not my bailiwick.

Best of luck on your search and your project.

Cheers! -Piggy

[CaptainQuintero]

On 12/04/2017 at 3:22 PM, WoadyCypress said:

 

Wouldn't a batch of non hydrated 65% head pull the water vapour out of the space?

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Sure, but when beads are 'full' they would need to be swapped out for 'dry' ones or use a different system to do this. Unless your humidor is located in a drier environment than inside it and it is leaky.

[CaptainQuintero]

On 12/04/2017 at 4:40 PM, PigFish said:

... this is not true my friend! Water vapor is not 'introduced' or generated by any cooling system, not by any strict definition of introduced. It may introduce water that it has removed, and this might be what you meant here.

Here is what all cooling systems do. Any time a cold object is introduced into a space that contains water vapor, where that cold object is at or near the dew point for that space, water will condense on the cold object. If the object is cold enough, the water will freeze!

What a cooling cycle does, is actually remove water vapor from space. They make it dryer. This is the reason why your AC in your car runs when you switch the environment system in your car to 'defrost.'

That 'collected' water must go somewhere. It is either collected as in a refrigerator (a frost free model) and conveyed outside the cooler for evaporation, or it is reintroduced to the internals of the system if allowed to evaporate naturally. This might be what you meant by 'introduce' water.

This is all apart of a 'forced' cooling cycle with regards to air temperature and water vapor in space.

Active refrigeration drys space (generally). Only a poorly designed one (in a humidor for example) will allow that water to return without a means to control it. This is a huge problem with solid surface humidors. It is the reason that I believe none of them work completely without a dehydrate cycle. (MHO)

-Piggy

See, there we go thank you It needed some clarification from the pros!

 

[PigFish]

5 hours ago, CaptainQuintero said:

Sure, but when beads are 'full' they would need to be swapped out for 'dry' ones or use a different system to do this. Unless your humidor is located in a drier environment than inside it and it is leaky.

This is why when desiccants are used in industry they are built into silos where tons of the stuff is used in multiple units, were the systems are valved and easily cross connected to a process that heat or evacuates and purges them of collected material.

In many ways, without automated support, desiccants are of little use in a lot of cases with cigars. They are best used as buffers, and I think they work better in a varying temperature humidor than something like the Bovida will.

I still do use desiccant support but mine are used as 'stage one' compensation and are self regulating via automation of the whole humidor.

Using them as a strict desiccant, without a means of automated processing will turn humidor administration into a tedious event as my friend has indicated.

-Piggy