The Sublime Cuban Cigar

[UpInSmoak]

My definition of a sublime cigar is similar to what many others have posed.  It's all relative I suppose.   Maybe I grade tougher.   I've been smoking for 6 years....so maybe 1000 cigars total.  At the most maybe 3 or 4 that would be considered sublime.  But that's the hook!  Every time you light one up it just might be the holy grail.  

[RijkdeGooier]

On 29-3-2017 at 6:16 PM, PigFish said:

What is a sublime Cuban cigar? Furthermore, what percentage of all the cigars rolled in Cuba are, or do you estimate will be 'sublime' cigars? Why do you think what you think on this subject? And most importantly, how do you find the sublime ones???

Thanks for sharing!

-The Pig

How about some input from Ray?

[Philc2001]

On 3/30/2017 at 2:10 PM, RijkdeGooier said:

How about some input from Ray?

Really hoping the architect of this topic - @PigFish comes back to give us his thoughts on this intriguing idea.

[PigFish]

1 hour ago, Philc2001 said:

Really hoping the architect of this topic - @PigFish comes back to give us his thoughts on this intriguing idea.

I just wanted to steal everyones ideas on getting the best cigars....! -LOL

 

I have just been so damn busy that posting has taken a back seat.

Funny, my stuff is all over the forum, so nothing new from me actually but it is partially written. Cheers! -the Pig

 

[Smokin Joe]

On 03/30/2017 at 7:15 AM, Colt45 said:

I don't believe a cigar can be, in and of itself. I believe it is the unique dynamism of a singular moment in time which makes an experience truly sublime.

Wang Chung

I think this is spot on. I've had great cigars but the sublime ones have usually arrived at the confluence of great friends, great atmosphere and usually a great whisky.

[topdiesel]

I don't practice Santeria
I ain't got no crystal ball
Well, I had a million dollars but I, I'd spend it all.
If I could find that Heina, and that Sancho that she's found.

 

SUBLIME SANCHO

[tsolomon]

I think the sublime cigar is a combination of a number of things that just come together at a certain time and place.  A great cigar with a perfect draw for you is a good place to start.  Your taste buds and what you ate recently I think plays a role in contributing to finding and enjoying a sublime cigar.  Add a good drink to pair the cigar with which can enhance the flavor and you're on your way.  I think it's rare to have a sublime cigar as way too many factors need to be in place, but a good or great cigar happens more often.  So now that I wrote this I have looked up the definition of sublime, "of such excellence, grandeur, or beauty as to inspire great admiration or awe". 

[Mycroft]

I disagree with the 'with good friends' idea. The sublime cigars (and they are but few) I have had have been alone. The thoughts begin to wander as I settle in with the realization that I am smoking a good cigar and don't have to stress about it, and then all of a sudden about half way through the realization hits that this is something truly special. It's maybe 1% of the time. It is pretty random but probably happened most often with 2014 Cohiba Esplendidos. Should smoke more of those come to think of it

[Philc2001]

I disagree with the 'with good friends' idea. The sublime cigars (and they are but few) I have had have been alone. The thoughts begin to wander as I settle in with the realization that I am smoking a good cigar and don't have to stress about it, and then all of a sudden about half way through the realization hits that this is something truly special. It's maybe 1% of the time. It is pretty random but probably happened most often with 2014 Cohiba Esplendidos. Should smoke more of those come to think of it

I agree, when the cigar is the center of attention I tend to have more earth shattering flavor experiences. When there are other people around they become the center of attention, so less mind share goes to the cigar. However I've had experiences where the cigar was so intense and flavorful it captivated my vocal cords and drew me into a antisocial trance. Now that is a CIGAR!


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[PigFish]

Great answers mates, there are a couple that really hit it for me. @fabes was truly a solid answer.

My opinion, well it is all over this forum already. I wanted your opinion folks, that's why I asked. I just wanted your secrets… -LOL

My take on this is ... that what you pay for a cigar has not been mentioned and has no bearing on finding sublime cigars, unless you are looking for a cigar called 'Sublime?' Are you listening Tabacuba? Therefore sublime cigars are random events, and not relative to cost. Regardless of cost, they are truly rare. Most of us have no clue as how to find them. This is another hint for those making cigars... that it has nothing to do with marketing, or adding a band and a shiny box!!!

I take issue with the 'rhetorical' surroundings comments that have come out of the discussion. Not for those who expressed it, as I agree that a cigar with mates can make for a grand 'social experience with a cigar.' I am primarily looking for responses that relate only to cigar tastes and not the friendship and fraternity that can make even a bad cigar, into a good life experience. My question was regarding cigar tastes... and cigar tastes alone.

What do I know of cigars? Well, you can decide for yourself based on my answer. I smoke a lot of excellent cigars. Cigar choice is not totally random, not to me anyway.

A cigar is a complete individual. The fact that it tastes similar to the one next to it in a box, rolled and sorted as the Cubans do, is a complete coincidence... I hear some of you choking on that one... -LOL

Once a cigar is rolled it is what it is and it will never be more. Age can affect its taste but will not make it 'good' when it was poorly made... ever. The effects of age are overrated, largely subliminal, not quantifiable and therefore categorically mythical. Okay, the rest of you are probably throwing shoes at my avatar by now... –LOL. Taste what you taste and rationalize it as you wish, but few smokers can blindly identify a cigar… Ask them to put a date on it based solely on a taste and forget about it. If taste items are to be judged as ‘not myth’ they need to be more than anecdotally evidenced. We all have the anecdotal evidence, and it justifies our beliefs, but does not prove any of them. Mine are no exception.

Water content is the only thing that one can reliably control to control the taste of their cigars (HMO). The rest was all decided in Cuba. Vitola, not make, brand or factory plays the next most prominent role. For me, the medium and thin ring cigars represent the best bet of finding a good or great cigar. Since we all taste differently and the dynamics of how we smoke, our physical make-ups are different, different vitolas will be prime for different smokers (an original theory of mine). So to me, vitola selection is prime in finding the best cigars or me. I will therefore have a greater chance in finding a great cigar from a box of 42 ring cigars than I will in a box of 54 ring cigars. This is not to say that the 54's might not be a better box of cigars, even to me. But the knowledge of my past experiences, if they are worth anything, have taught me that size matters!

Understanding cigars and how they are made becomes part of it. While a box code could lead to more fertile ground, does it outweigh the argument over individualism? I think not. It therefore may not hurt to find similar cigars if you were pleased with ones you already have, but it is a crapshoot still.

Unfortunately I am still of the mind that Tabacuba has, in-fact, destroyed many of the best cigars that it has ever made. Short runs of untested and expensive cigars will never be a means by which a regular smoker (like me) can rely on getting the best cigars for his/her particular taste. So short runs of 'special' cigars does not help, but does actually hinder one in finding sublime cigars... This holds true for everyone as a matter of economics, even those who claim that they have no clue as how to find a great cigar. From a mathematical perspective, if one says that they think sublime cigars occur randomly at 1%, they are apt to find more of them, smoking lesser expensive smaller regular production cigars at a lesser cost than fewer total cigars that are more expensive, larger cigars at a greater cost. The more you smoke then, the more sublime cigars you will experience! Economics then plays a role (perhaps) in finding sublime cigars!!! This assumes of course that one could and would smoke more at a lower cost than at a higher cost. If there are those that only occasionally smoke, and cost is not at all considered, then I can see where it would have little to do with the equation.

When I was smoking several cigars a day, cost would play a role. I was not usually consuming 3 cigars at $20.00 each. Again, if economics is not a part of your smoking and there is no such thing as a smoking 'budget' therefore you are exempted. While I certainly spent a couple of grand a month on purchasing cigars, never has it worked out to where all cigars that were purchased with that budget were consumed in the month. There was always a net gain of cigars for future months when perhaps no cigars would be in the budget. I have been budget negative or neutral in the cigar purchasing game. Yet I have sufficient cigars to carry me, so like savings I use it when I need to and replenish it when I can.

So like some of you I think that sublime cigars are a rarity. Sorry Tabacuba. They are not as common as some have mentioned but not as rare for me as many of you. I would say that perhaps 5% of what I smoke are what I might consider sublime. It has nothing to do with who I am smoking with... I differ there. It has everything to do with how a cigar is made, and lesser so as to when it was made. It has something to do with how it is stored but that won't make up for if it is poorly made either. Age, except for acclimatization, and perhaps manufacturing 'trend' has little to do with it. Vitola is largely my only clue to finding the best cigars... Age as it represents ‘the trend in how a cigar is made generally,’ is another important clue. I prefer many ‘older’ cigars not because they are older, but because they were made in an era where they put 110 to 120% more tobacco in the same space than they do now because of tastes and trends.

Thanks for partaking in the discussion.

-the Pig

[Colt45]

2 hours ago, PigFish said:

My take on this is ...

What makes a cigar sublime? Not good, great, excellent, or supreme - but truly sublime?