Underfilled Diplomaticos Excelencias (RE Cuba, 2015)?

[encephalization]

(I hope this is the correct forum for this topic)

About a year ago I visited Cuba for the first time. At one of the LCDHs in Havana I picked up a box (SGA DIC15) of the 2015 Cuban RE for the Diplomaticos. Half of the box has now been smoked and for at least two of them there has been some serious construction issues. I feel sad about it, not only because it is a shame to see this (especially in an RE) but also for the fact that I was stopped at Houston customs with it and it still made it through (so it has some sentimental value to me).

As you can see the wrapper is struggling to burn. I've personally smoked two of the five cigars and although the second one did not have a significant issue, it was just as bad for a friend (and fellow board member) who smoked one today.

Just putting some pressure on the cigar makes it obvious that there are several soft spots. The roller appears to have been stringent with the filler to say the least (in both my earlier problematic one and the one smoked today). There are definitely large pockets of nothing.

The photos aren't great but I hope they suffice. Even after cutting the first third, the issue continues throughout the cigar.

I am interested to hear what your experiences are with this RE. I think it is an interesting cigar (the one stick that actually didn't have any problems had excellent flavors) but I am hesitant to be on the lookout for more boxes if this is a reoccuring problem (especially since I wouldn't be paying 86 CUC for the next one). Granted, this might be a one off (there has been at least two cigars of the five that have been issue free) but even in an online review of the cigar I have seen hints of the "lagged" wrapper (it almost looks like there is some sort of plastic coating).

I'll give one more a try in a couple of months, if that doesn't do well I guess I'll have some Regional Exclusive pipe tobacco..

[chris12381]

I picked up 5 boxes of these in November. I've had one. Construction was impeccable. Smoked beautifully but I think it goes without saying it smoked like a very young cigar.

You hit the nail on the head though. Would not pay much more than 86 CUC for a box of these.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[MyWillYourFate]

I am the aforementioned friend who, thanks to encephalization's generosity, had the opportunity to smoke this cigar. Unfortunately, the stick was nigh unsmokable due to the issues mentioned above.

Also, a very unusual construction issue was noticed before the cigar was lit. The foot of the cigar had a bowl-shaped indentation, likely due to it being as under filled as it was. I would say the wrapper protruded about 1/8th of an inch past the filler. Regrettably I did not have the foresight to take a picture of said indentation. But I can tell you that during my 11 years of smoking I have seen that specific issue only a handful of times.

[oliverdst]

SGA code? Which month?

[vladdraq]

50 minutes ago, oliverdst said:

SGA code? Which month?

Dic 15-december 2015

[watches_whiskies_cigars]

I'm my experience, there are many underfilled cigars coming out these days. Wind tunnels is an apt description which is how another brother described the phenomenon. In short, it may not be a problem specific to this RE. As an aside, SGA is the code for ERDM cigars these days.

[Corylax18]

I had a couple examples in November, I dont remember any construction issues, certainly nothing near this bad. I do remember that I smoked the second one right before I smoked a Punch Punch. The Punch blew the doors off all the Dips I had smoked, it had much clearer and richer flavors. The Dips aren't a bad deal for $86, but I wouldn't pay more than that. 

[cigaraholic]

You may have another loser in your box, may. The problem isn't with this particular cigar, it with all cigars coming out of Cuba these days. In Northern California we're used to weighing what we smoke before we smoke it, a heartbreaking experience when it comes to Cuban cigars. 

In most boxes today only half the cigars make the published weight, and 5 of the 12 lightweights belong in the trash can. The other 7 or so can be anywhere from a nice smoke to bland disappointment. I've had it with smoking bland garbage, I check the weight of every cigar I smoke now and only smoke well filled ones......life changer!

If you read about a man throwing draw test machines out a window of a cigar factory in Cuba, you'll know I'm there.

[oliverdst]

2 minutes ago, cigaraholic said:

You may have another loser in your box, may. The problem isn't with this particular cigar, it with all cigars coming out of Cuba these days. In Northern California we're used to weighing what we smoke before we smoke it, a heartbreaking experience when it comes to Cuban cigars. 

In most boxes today only half the cigars make the published weight, and 5 of the 12 lightweights belong in the trash can. The other 7 or so can be anywhere from a nice smoke to bland disappointment. I've had it with smoking bland garbage, I check the weight of every cigar I smoke now and only smoke well filled ones......life changer!

If you read about a man throwing draw test machines out a window of a cigar factory in Cuba, you'll know I'm there.

Months ago @PigFish posted about weighting his cigars. Worth the search.

[torsion]

Don't think it matters which marca or vitola - they all suffer from construction issues

Incidentally I've had a better success rate with the custom rolls I've smoked with much less issues and found more issues with reg production in robusto sizes from what I have had stocked.  

I am hopeful for the Excelencia's I have as I have yet to smoke any yet!

[mygar]

43 minutes ago, cigaraholic said:

You may have another loser in your box, may. The problem isn't with this particular cigar, it with all cigars coming out of Cuba these days. In Northern California we're used to weighing what we smoke before we smoke it, a heartbreaking experience when it comes to Cuban cigars. 

In most boxes today only half the cigars make the published weight, and 5 of the 12 lightweights belong in the trash can. The other 7 or so can be anywhere from a nice smoke to bland disappointment. I've had it with smoking bland garbage, I check the weight of every cigar I smoke now and only smoke well filled ones......life changer!

If you read about a man throwing draw test machines out a window of a cigar factory in Cuba, you'll know I'm there.

I agree, i run across too many underfilled cigars that dissappoint me. Too bad cubans do not have the construction standards that NC have... frustrating to say the least.

[PigFish]

Cuba has a real problem filling cigars these days...! MHO.

Yes, I often weigh cigars, but in fairness they must be stabilized. I have found huge deviations.

My experience, mushy poorly filled cigars taste and smoke poorly. Tabacuba's got balls charging what they do when they put so much of this garbage in one box... Again, MHO...

Cheers (if there are any in this post). -the Pig

[fabes]

When I started with CC I was be frustrated with tight draws, but now it's quite the opposite.

There is no redeeming an underfilled cigar. 

[LGC]

Over a decade ago, overfilling and tight draws were prevalent issues. These days, underfilling is a widespread issue... regardless if it's an RE, reserva, gran reserva, behike, super reserva, festival release, extraordinary reserva, etc. A cigar can appear flawless, but be extremely underfilled at the same time. Draw testing does nothing to reduce the QC issue. For every box I've opened from the past decade, I can dependably rely on underfilled cigars being present. I often will feel several cigars before selecting one to smoke. Simply looking at the feet isn't very useful either. Voids are often present in the middle of the cigar. Don't you just love paying $30 for a "special" cigar... only to find it burns like a rolled up newspaper??

[PigFish]

33 minutes ago, Brandon said:

Over a decade ago, overfilling and tight draws were prevalent issues. These days, underfilling is a widespread issue... regardless if it's an RE, reserva, gran reserva, behike, super reserva, festival release, extraordinary reserva, etc. A cigar can appear flawless, but be extremely underfilled at the same time. Draw testing does nothing to reduce the QC issue. For every box I've opened from the past decade, I can dependably rely on underfilled cigars being present. I often will feel several cigars before selecting one to smoke. Simply looking at the feet isn't very useful either. Voids are often present in the middle of the cigar. Don't you just love paying $30 for a "special" cigar... only to find it burns like a rolled up newspaper??

... first, I don't pay $30 for a cigar (as you know). -LOL It pisses me off enough to get underfilled $4.00 cigars!!! Thirty dollar underfilled cigars, that is another guy's problem... one I am happy to say I don't have!!!

-R

[encephalization]

I appreciate the input from everyone. I am glad to hear that others have had better experiences with this release.

4 hours ago, PigFish said:

Cuba has a real problem filling cigars these days...! MHO.

Yes, I often weigh cigars, but in fairness they must be stabilized. I have found huge deviations.

My experience, mushy poorly filled cigars taste and smoke poorly. Tabacuba's got balls charging what they do when they put so much of this garbage in one box... Again, MHO...

Cheers (if there are any in this post). -the Pig

Okay, good to know. Just out of curiosity, what happens with the cigars that do not meet the minimum weight requirement?

To be honest, I've had very little issues with construction when it comes to CCs, no matter brand (and cost). The number of 25-wheel JLPs I've smoked in past years (when on a tight budget) is significant and I'm guessing that less than 2% have been unsmokable. I've smoked more than a handful of cigars from 2016 boxes and have not really had any issues there either. This was my first big letdown (maybe I've just been lucky?).

Obviously, I agree that any underfilled cigar is unacceptable regardless of price. But I feel more disappointed with an "exclusive" cigar like this, mainly because I wanted to give away something special.

Edit: Yes, I've seen your McRib tag line PigFish, maybe that is something I should learn from!

[Corylax18]

1 hour ago, encephalization said:

I appreciate the input from everyone. I am glad to hear that others have had better experiences with this release.

Okay, good to know. Just out of curiosity, what happens with the cigars that do not meet the minimum weight requirement?

To be honest, I've had very little issues with construction when it comes to CCs, no matter brand (and cost). The number of 25-wheel JLPs I've smoked in past years (when on a tight budget) is significant and I'm guessing that less than 2% have been unsmokable. I've smoked more than a handful of cigars from 2016 boxes and have not really had any issues there either. This was my first big letdown (maybe I've just been lucky?).

Obviously, I agree that any underfilled cigar is unacceptable regardless of price. But I feel more disappointed with an "exclusive" cigar like this, mainly because I wanted to give away something special.

Edit: Yes, I've seen your McRib tag line PigFish, maybe that is something I should learn from!

I've had better luck (construction wise) with Piedras than any other marca. Clip em. light em, puff em. Just simple easygoing cigars. I wish that everyday dependability were  more evident in the shiny, embossed, gold encrusted, regular production cigars that cost 3x as much. Let alone the the special stuff that costs 5, 10, 15 times as much. Seems like the focus has become a bit misguided.....

[PigFish]

59 minutes ago, encephalization said:

I appreciate the input from everyone. I am glad to hear that others have had better experiences with this release.

Okay, good to know. Just out of curiosity, what happens with the cigars that do not meet the minimum weight requirement?

To be honest, I've had very little issues with construction when it comes to CCs, no matter brand (and cost). The number of 25-wheel JLPs I've smoked in past years (when on a tight budget) is significant and I'm guessing that less than 2% have been unsmokable. I've smoked more than a handful of cigars from 2016 boxes and have not really had any issues there either. This was my first big letdown (maybe I've just been lucky?).

Obviously, I agree that any underfilled cigar is unacceptable regardless of price. But I feel more disappointed with an "exclusive" cigar like this, mainly because I wanted to give away something special.

Edit: Yes, I've seen your McRib tag line PigFish, maybe that is something I should learn from!

... oh God no, don't do that... Bwana already blames me for ruining his EL business!!! -LOL

Look, the cigar weight is evidence. It is not the end-all in determining the taste of a cigar. It is a header, like people examine wrapper oils, or the foot for draw, or the bouquet... It is just a tell.

The fact is you must smoke the cigar to know it soul. Weight, the ocular nor the olfactory will replace taste, no way! So, fair is fair, but the weight is a tell and as a seasoned smoker I think I can read the terrain as well as anyone.

So you suspect it and smoke it with an open mind. That is what I do... but if you wished to gift a cigar and wanted it to be a good one, don't send one made of mush.

Lastly, if you are a Yank and more conditioned to NC cigars, then you will be less affected by the lousy taste (no offense) and the 'straw' draw. A lot of guys prefer the loose draw to the stiff, referred to as 'Cuban' draw and I prefer the latter. I smoke a lot of these dreaded cigars from 99 to 01 and I love them. Store them right and the draw is not the problem... But then again, I can likely 'suck start' a leaf blower! (Not intended to reflect poorly on ladies of the night...)

-Piggy

[watches_whiskies_cigars]

2 minutes ago, Corylax18 said:

Seems like the focus has become a bit misguided.....

As long as enough people are willing to buy the overpriced ELs and REs, HSA will willfully continue to lean in that direction. HSA will happily focus on these super-expensive "specials" because the demand is there. ELs and REs represent ~10% of my cigar portfolio because the price point is just not worth it, IMHO. A $30 cigar usually doesn't provide me 6X satisfaction over a good petit corona (I look at you BPC), but then again I've always been a value guy.

[Corylax18]

1 minute ago, watches_whiskies_cigars said:

As long as enough people are willing to buy the overpriced ELs and REs, HSA will willfully continue to lean in that direction. HSA will happily focus on these super-expensive "specials" because the demand is there. ELs and REs represent ~10% of my cigar portfolio because the price point is just not worth it, IMHO. A $30 cigar usually doesn't provide me 6X satisfaction over a good petit corona (I look at you BPC), but then again I've always been a value guy.

I wasn't bashing the EL/RE/GR trend in general, there are about a half dozen other threads for that.  While I dont enjoy the trends I am seeing I do understand them from a business perspective. 

What I was meaning to highlight is general QC practices, and HSAs main focus. We get plenty of press releases stating how much fancier new bands are going to be, new lines and brands, better profits etc, etc, etc. But we they still have not learned how to regularly produce a final product with any acceptable level of consistency. I wish the focus was a bit more centered on the production and enjoyment of a cigar rather than the marketing and appearance. Call me old fashion.

[encephalization]

... oh God no, don't do that... Bwana already blames me for ruining his EL business!!! -LOL

Look, the cigar weight is evidence. It is not the end-all in determining the taste of a cigar. It is a header, like people examine wrapper oils, or the foot for draw, or the bouquet... It is just a tell.

The fact is you must smoke the cigar to know it soul. Weight, the ocular nor the olfactory will replace taste, no way! So, fair is fair, but the weight is a tell and as a seasoned smoker I think I can read the terrain as well as anyone.

So you suspect it and smoke it with an open mind. That is what I do... but if you wished to gift a cigar and wanted it to be a good one, don't send one made of mush.

Lastly, if you are a Yank and more conditioned to NC cigars, then you will be less affected by the lousy taste (no offense) and the 'straw' draw. A lot of guys prefer the loose draw to the stiff, referred to as 'Cuban' draw and I prefer the latter. I smoke a lot of these dreaded cigars from 99 to 01 and I love them. Store them right and the draw is not the problem... But then again, I can likely 'suck start' a leaf blower! (Not intended to reflect poorly on ladies of the night...)

-Piggy

You're right, I probably should have checked the cigar a bit better before gifting it but fortunately we meet a couple times a week so I'll get plenty of chances to redeem myself.

I'm not a yank (and hadn't smoked a NC until I moved to the US) and I definitely prefer a looser draw. I've smoked for over a decade but its only the last couple of years its become a big interest so I appreciate all the knowledge you and others provide here.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

[watches_whiskies_cigars]

16 minutes ago, Corylax18 said:

I wasn't bashing the EL/RE/GR trend in general, there are about a half dozen other threads for that.  While I dont enjoy the trends I am seeing I do understand them from a business perspective. 

What I was meaning to highlight is general QC practices, and HSAs main focus. We get plenty of press releases stating how much fancier new bands are going to be, new lines and brands, better profits etc, etc, etc. But we they still have not learned how to regularly produce a final product with any acceptable level of consistency. I wish the focus was a bit more centered on the production and enjoyment of a cigar rather than the marketing and appearance. Call me old fashion.

Sorry my brother, I misconstrued your post. I wholeheartedly agree with you. While there are multiple factors behind the woeful QC of HSA, one of the drivers can be low wages, which hampers drive to excel individually, methinks.

[Lotusguy]

The frigging underfilled sticks coming out of Cuba these days have been a real sore point for me. And it's getting worse with every new thick RG release. It's a disgrace! I am scared of what I'll find when I weigh the Bolivar Tesoros I just bought...

[CaptainQuintero]

There certainly seems to be a few releases which suffer greatly with shoddy workmanship. The Asia Pacific QdO robusto springs to mind as one which I was genuinely looking forward too, then sadly found out they had been rolled by passing schoolchildren

[SloppyJ]

Where you guys at in AR? I might want to get in on this action!