Avoiding or fixing Mould / Plume

[Smokin Joe]

Hi all

I've seen a few article discussing mould or plume of stored cigars.

I'm just beginning to build my stash and would appreciate any thoughts on how to avoid mould / plume. If avoiding completely is impossible given cigars are organic, is there a way to fix or treat the problem?

For background I'm currently using a 60 stick cedar humidor. I've generally got the humidity between 68 amd 72%. Temperature us generally 18 - 26 celcius.

Cheers

[Guest Nekhyludov]

I would drop the rh to 65%. I find that above 70%, fluctuations that persist for any length of time risk enabling mold growth. I also carefully inspect EVERY stick before it goes into my humidor to check for any signs of mold (among other things, beetles, etc.) so I don't introduce any problems.

If I do see signs of mold on a cigar - and it hasn't touched the foot - I'll gently remove it with a Q-TIp dampened with an anti-fungal propylene glycol solution, then dry box it overnight.

[Smokin Joe]

1 hour ago, Nekhyludov said:

I would drop the rh to 65%. I find that above 70%, fluctuations that persist for any length of time risk enabling mold growth. I also carefully inspect EVERY stick before it goes into my humidor to check for any signs of mold (among other things, beetles, etc.) so I don't introduce any problems.

If I do see signs of mold on a cigar - and it hasn't touched the foot - I'll gently remove it with a Q-TIp dampened with an anti-fungal propylene glycol solution, then dry box it overnight.

Thanks Nekhydulov. Good advice. Where do you find the anti-fungal solution? Does it effect the flavour of the cigar?

[PapaDisco]

Hang on, hang on . . . they are not one in the same.  Plume = good, Mold = bad.

Plume you usually have to wait decades for.  Mold you just need too much water.  Plume is the residue of tasty oils and other compounds slowly evaporating over a very long time.  Mold is evil spores blooming in the presence of liquid water.

Keep your humidor temperature stable, and under 70%rH and you might get Plume eventually, but you will never get Mold.

If you get Mold, just brush it off.  I wouldn't bother with the anti-fungal business . . . who wants to smoke that?  Besides, your cigars already come covered with mold spores (pretty much everything in the Universe is covered with these bloody things . . . the ISS is wall-to-wall, literally, with mold), the trick with mold is not giving it the liquid water (even teeny tiny droplets) that it needs to bloom.

 

[Smallclub]

3 hours ago, Nekhyludov said:

If I do see signs of mold on a cigar - and it hasn't touched the foot - I'll gently remove it with a Q-TIp dampened with an anti-fungal propylene glycol solution, then dry box it overnight.

Propylen glycol directly ON the cigars? That's totally delirious IMO, it's certainly more detrimental to the cigars than a bit of mold that can be brushed in seconds…

[Smokin Joe]

4 hours ago, PapaDisco said:

Keep your humidor temperature stable, and under 70%rH and you might get Plume eventually, but you will never get Mold.

 

Cheers Papadisco. So:

- keep my cigars at or under 70%rh and avoid drops of water and I should be able to avoid mould. If I get mould get in early and just brush it off.

- store the cigars well over time and I may get plume  which is a good thing.

[Fuzz]

1 hour ago, Smokin Joe said:

Cheers Papadisco. So:

- keep my cigars at or under 70%rh and avoid drops of water and I should be able to avoid mould. If I get mould get in early and just brush it off.

- store the cigars well over time and I may get plume  which is a good thing.

Definitely under 70%rh, and lower the temp, with no large swings for prolonged periods.

[Smokin Joe]

21 minutes ago, Fuzz said:

Definitely under 70%rh, and lower the temp, with no large swings for prolonged periods.

Thanks Fuzz. Much appreciated.

[Mycroft]

Yes, a stable temperature around 20 - 21 C and humidity at or under 70% and you will never see mold. That is my experience anyway. Some people use a cooler to moderate temperature fluctuations. If you must have higher temperatures then probably should lower the humidity further. 

[Dave001]

my years of experience I noticed if I kept the temp at below 65 and of course RH at 62-65 I saw mold appear on a few lanceros only and that is why for many years I now keep my temp at 70-72 F and RH always around 58-61 and boom for me problem solved been that way for over 10 years now definitely worry free when it comes to a very  important topic like temp and humidity

[garbandz]

you WANT plume.     

you do not want mold.  

keep humidity and temp low, your stash will age well.     

[Smokin Joe]

1 hour ago, Dave001 said:

my years of experience I noticed if I kept the temp at below 65 and of course RH at 62-65 I saw mold appear on a few lanceros only and that is why for many years I now keep my temp at 70-72 F and RH always around 58-61 and boom for me problem solved been that way for over 10 years now definitely worry free when it comes to a very  important topic like temp and humidity

Thanks Dave. 58% is lower than I've seen elsewhere. Does a lower rh cause any other issues?

[Dave001]

On ‎3‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 1:16 PM, Smokin Joe said:

Thanks Dave. 58% is lower than I've seen elsewhere. Does a lower rh cause any other issues?

Joe, not when the temperature goes above 70F usually summer months my temp swings to 72 F so the lower 58% is just perfect but for all the other times im at 60-61 and I experience no problems at all

 

[PigFish]

Proper climate control is the key to cigar taste. Longevity is an issue of constant debate, that cannot be proven.

I therefore work from a position of the empirical mixed with a little science. Tobacco tastes better to me when dryer. For me this is a setting of 70F and 60 to 61rH depending on the humidor. I have many humidors, all climate controlled.

The controls you can maintain aids in the ability to ascertain 'real' and not theoretical condition and taste. On one end, let the cigar get too dry and you suffer fines. On the other, keep the cigar too wet and you suffer fines as well. The two ends lead to havoc in your humidor. One end, leads to havoc on your taste buds as well as your humidor. (MHO) I therefore take some risk of the dryer cigar to gain the benefit of taste. Taste is empirical and can be proven to those who can taste the negativity of excessive water. It is all personal. There is no 'rule' however it is 'generally' accepted that Cuban cigars are more prone to problems when wetter.

I don't pretend to speak for others so I will not intentionally bolster my position based on the 'consensus.' I don't really care what other smokers like! For me it has been about control and actually understanding the role of control and water content in my smoking. I say try a little dryer and cut years off of my learning curve! Yet, that could be totally wrong for your tastes...

70F and 65rH is a good starting point of many, especially if you suffer from some higher heat in the summer. As summer rolls in, you may have to add water (higher rH) as the temperature frees the bonded water in your cigar. This is not opinion, but fact.

I am working on a temperature compensating controller (just one of the projects on the list) that might aid those storing in 'varying' conditions. The idea just came upon me one day when I was thinking of those storing without temperature control. It is as simple as including an algorithm, largely theoretical, but one that could be tuned to adjust the rH output of your active humidifier to the average temperature, or current temperature of your humidor. In this way you could adjust slightly the rH in a hot humidor to keep cigars conditioned and trim out the water as the temperature declined. It might get one the best of both worlds.... but now I am rambling...

It is the combination of temperature and rH that causes problems in cigars. It is not one or the other. Mold can certainly grow on a cold cigar... Just look at some neglected cheese in your icebox!!!

 

-the Pig

[PigFish]

... I forgot to add. Welcome to FoH. We love new members...

Cheers, Piggy

[Smokin Joe]

9 hours ago, PigFish said:

I am working on a temperature compensating controller (just one of the projects on the list) that might aid those storing in 'varying' conditions. The idea just came upon me one day when I was thinking of those storing without temperature control. It is as simple as including an algorithm, largely theoretical, but one that could be tuned to adjust the rH output of your active humidifier to the average temperature, or current temperature of your humidor. In this way you could adjust slightly the rH in a hot humidor to keep cigars conditioned and trim out the water as the temperature declined. It might get one the best of both worlds.... but now I am rambling...

Thanks for the detailed briefing Pig. Its great to meet you and I am a big fan of the mad scientist approach to perfecting CC storage.

I had a read of your pdf on building a frigador. I may hit you up for advice once when I've built the collection up a bit.

[Dave001]

I can actually picture ray (piggy) looking like doc from back to the future doing his experiments trying to find the perfect solution to make all cigar smokers happy "the perfect rh and temp" if it exists ?? just let me know if you build one and it also poses as a time machine definitely be interested in that one LOL

[earthson]

I am like most and prefer my ready-to-smoke Havanas at 59-65%RH. The boxes I am aging live in a cooler that holds slightly higher at 67-68%.

In my experience living in a humid climate, anything over 70 is inviting mold. My NC collection (predominantly Fuentes) is kept at 69-70%RH max.

I used to freak out when I saw a little mold and it's not unknown, especially in tubos. Several years of experience have taught me, however, that with the low RH levels I keep, mold is no issue as it tends to disappear after a few weeks or months at 60-65RH.

I don't have it handy, but there have been threads on this forum in the past that suggest that a little of the right kind of mold actually helps the aging process!

I would strongly recommend using beads for humidification. Once your humi is seasoned and holds humidity well, you'll find that the beads need very little attention.

[Smokin Joe]

On 03/14/2017 at 8:18 AM, earthson said:

I don't have it handy, but there have been threads on this forum in the past that suggest that a little of the right kind of mold actually helps the aging process!

I would strongly recommend using beads for humidification. Once your humi is seasoned and holds humidity well, you'll find that the beads need very little attention.

Cheers earthson. I dont know if i have the skills to use mould in the aging process but I'm definately looking at beads. Ive seen Boveda at my local B&M. Have you used them?

[earthson]

15 hours ago, Smokin Joe said:

Cheers earthson. I dont know if i have the skills to use mould in the aging process but I'm definately looking at beads. Ive seen Boveda at my local B&M. Have you used them?

 

I have a few Boveda packs. Important thing to note is that they are rechargeable, so when they dry out, don't just toss them in the trash - put them in a sealable bag with a cellulose sponge that has been soaked in distilled water. Between them and my beads, I'm only adding water a few times per year.

Still, these are packs I got for free from purchases/trades. I'm a bead guy as I've found them very easy to use and they give reliable performance.