Reserva/GR/Anejados

[busdriver]

Can anyone enlighten the thread on why the Grand Reserva and Reserva releases are deamed ultra premium when the anejados that are aged longer than the Reservas arent near the premium, in $ at least?

Happy MardiGras!

 

 

 

[NSXCIGAR]

Tobacco for the Reservas is processed differently than regular production and is well-aged prior to rolling. The Anejados are supposedly regular production tobacco that has simply been sitting in HSA's humidors for some number of years after rolling. And I stress the word supposedly.

[El Presidente]

6 hours ago, busdriver said:

Can anyone enlighten the thread on why the Grand Reserva and Reserva releases are deamed ultra premium when the anejados that are aged longer than the Reservas arent near the premium, in $ at least?

Happy MardiGras!

 

 

 

You can sell the Grand Reserva/Reserva......you can't the Anejados 

I would love to see global sales of the Anejados to date. The forecast and actuals graph would make an interesting diagram 

[dowjr1]

Why do you think they aren't selling Prez?

[dominattorney]

While we are on the subject, why did the anejados come out in weird vitolas that don't fit their respective marcas? The Monte Churchill released along side the romeo pirimide for example. If it were me, I would have switched the bands. Seems like theyou would have been easier to hype that way as a Monte no 2 anejado and a romeo Churchill anejado. 

[JohnInCleveland]

18 minutes ago, dominattorney said:

While we are on the subject, why did the anejados come out in weird vitolas that don't fit their respective marcas? The Monte Churchill released along side the romeo pirimide for example. If it were me, I would have switched the bands. Seems like theyou would have been easier to hype that way as a Monte no 2 anejado and a romeo Churchill anejado. 

A lot of people think it was a way to get rid of unwanted stock.  Therein lies the stink surrounding the whole anejados thing.  

[dominattorney]

12 minutes ago, JohnInCleveland said:

A lot of people think it was a way to get rid of unwanted stock.  Therein lies the stink surrounding the whole anejados thing.  

But still, why a partagas corona Gorda anejado vs the hoyo epi no 1 anejado? I might have felt more tempted to spend 300 plus on an "aged" version of a cigar thst I already like. 

[Fugu]

42 minutes ago, dominattorney said:

But still, why a partagas corona Gorda anejado vs the hoyo epi no 1 anejado? I might have felt more tempted to spend 300 plus on an "aged" version of a cigar thst I already like. 

Don't try and argue from a logical standpoint regarding matters HSA.  

[dominattorney]

Touche

[JohnInCleveland]

1 hour ago, dominattorney said:

But still, why a partagas corona Gorda anejado vs the hoyo epi no 1 anejado? I might have felt more tempted to spend 300 plus on an "aged" version of a cigar thst I already like. 

Because Epi 1's don't need a weird marketing gimmick to sell.  They already sell on their own.  I've never smoked any of the anejados, nor have I had any desire to.  I'd rather age my own stock.  

[LGC]

Don't try and argue from a logical standpoint regarding matters HSA.  

I catch myself trying to reason with my 3 year olds...

[fabes]

Expanding on the original question... I'm certainly not the demographic for the Reserva/GR releases, but is there any evidence or specific information to lead us to believe these are actually different (tobacco/processing) than standard production? Is there something of substance other than charging a premium for exclusivity and a pretty box? And without a blind tasting, there must be a placebo effect looking at the flashy extra band while smoking.

[Corylax18]

8 minutes ago, fabes said:

Expanding on the original question... I'm certainly not the demographic for the Reserva/GR releases, but is there any evidence or specific information to lead us to believe these are actually different (tobacco/processing) than standard production? Is there something of substance other than charging a premium for exclusivity and a pretty box? And without a blind tasting, there must be a placebo effect looking at the flashy extra band while smoking.

No more hard evidence than most of HSAs claims. Supposedly the leaf is aged longer, then the cigars are aged by HSA before they are sold. I remember reading somewhere that the decision on which cigars get the GR treatment starts at the harvest/processing stage, they only use  leaf from very very good years, dont hold me to this though. 

[alloy]

I've smoked the MC churchill anejado and bought a box (a mistake) if the Party anejado's. Neither was a very good tasting cigar. Will not buy any more. there are way better regular production sticks for sale.

[Bartolomeo]

I have rarely had a GR that is much better than its reg production stick outside of the Cohiba GR....price point doesn't make sense

[BrightonCorgi]

17 minutes ago, Bartolomeo said:

I have rarely had a GR that is much better than its reg production stick outside of the Cohiba GR....price point doesn't make sense

Doesn't get any better than Cohiba GR's for modern cigars IMO!!  

[Guest Nekhyludov]

51 minutes ago, fabes said:

Is there something of substance other than charging a premium for exclusivity and a pretty box? And without a blind tasting, there must be a placebo effect looking at the flashy extra band while smoking.

There's a substantial amount of research in wine tasting that suggests that visual cues and context quantitatively increase enjoyment, even when blind tasting reveals that two alternatives are indistinguishable. And my experience leads me to believe that this effect applies fully to cigars, too. 

The New Yorker did a great article on this: 

http://www.newyorker.com/science/maria-konnikova/what-we-really-taste-when-we-drink-wine

Of course, I'd like to think that I'm such a sophisticated connoisseur that only taste matters. But that's not really true. I'm aware that I derive enjoyment from looking at beautiful or special package designs, the heft and smooth finish of a varnished cab, and the emotional charge of finding something "rare" or "limited." I accept that all of those things are PART OF the substance of my enjoyment. 

If I like the flavors, the aroma, and the feel, and the other stuff contributes to my enjoyment in a way that's worth the price, I figure why the hell not? Of course, for the enormous price these things bring, a Reserva/GR is probably never gonna hit that threshold for me 

[CaptainQuintero]

The anajedos are boxes made up from cigars found in forgotten sheds/bins/rejected so are aged on accident. Reservas are cigars made from tobacco stuck years behind the rolling schedule so are aged on accident.

You get a far more shiny box with the reservas series though hence the bigger price

[Smallclub]

1 hour ago, Bartolomeo said:

I have rarely had a GR that is much better than its reg production stick outside of the Cohiba GR....price point doesn't make sense

I agree on the price point, but the few Reservas I've smoked (Siglo VI, Monte 4, D4…) were superb cigars, much better than regular production… If I could afford them I'd probably smoke them…

[Fugu]

18 hours ago, Smallclub said:

I agree on the price point, but the few Reservas I've smoked (Siglo VI, Monte 4, D4…) were superb cigars, much better than regular production… If I could afford them I'd probably smoke them…

Agree, and was just about to say the same.

All true, what has been said - but, here the proof really lies in the smoking. There sure is a certain, perhaps even a wide overlap in the smoking quality between Reservas / Gran Reservas and their respective standard brethren. HSA claims that those were not only made from raw materials aged for longer but also made of select tobaccos that underwent special TLC. True or not - I for one can attest at least for the Monte 4 Reserva, that that is a cigar miles above standard production (you hear the same of the D4-R, albeit I never had one). Of the others I so far only smoked very few, too few to allow me a clear verdict, but what I smoked had been truly remarkable. It is as Rob likes to put it - the bell curve is strongly skewed to the right. Likelihood of a great cigar simply is higher there. Whether that is worth one spending that extra coin everybody has to make up with oneself. But if you ask me, there is a clear difference beyond a pure placebo or 'bling' effect (and I fancy myself as being critical of such things....). But there surely is a high "collector's fee" to be paid for that little bit of extra.

[NSXCIGAR]

I've been paying attention since the Reservas came on the scene, and as an impartial observer reading as many opinions as possible, there's a great deal of evidence that the Reservas are a step above regular production, and pretty consistently so. They're clearly doing something right with these, and the results lead me to believe that they are telling the truth about the program and the methods used. It appears they had the idea, experimented, found success, decided to produce them and have executed it well. The results don't lie--even the worst reviews I've seen of them rate the cigars as undeniably very good. Whether they are worth the price or a good value is a separate issue altogether. 

That brings me to the Anejados. These generally are mediocre cigars at best--some really suck. There are about a dozen logical inconsistencies in this program, which I won't get into, but again--HSA has shown that they know how to have a vision and execute new ideas successfully. In addition, quality has been trending upwards as a whole over the last 15 years. So when the results of something like the Anejado program are so poor, it leads me to believe it isn't due to technical reasons. This is something else and we're getting smoke blown up our skirts about it. It may have been a failed experiment HSA is trying to liquidate. But they almost certainly are not what HSA says they are nor were they probably rolled with the intention of being what they are today.

[Smallclub]

46 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

 So when the results of something like the Anejado program are so poor, it leads me to believe it isn't due to technical reasons. This is something else and we're getting smoke blown up our skirts about it. It may have been a failed experiment HSA is trying to liquidate. But they almost certainly are not what HSA says they are nor were they probably rolled with the intention of being what they are today.

Well summarized.

[clutch5150]

4 hours ago, Bartolomeo said:

I have rarely had a GR that is much better than its reg production stick outside of the Cohiba GR....price point doesn't make sense

Not sure I agree with that. The Partagas GR I have is the best smoke I've had next to all other Parta's...The GR's have beaten them all down, not even close. I also have the Cohiba GR and I agree there as well.

[NSXCIGAR]

8 hours ago, dominattorney said:

While we are on the subject, why did the anejados come out in weird vitolas that don't fit their respective marcas? The Monte Churchill released along side the romeo pirimide for example. If it were me, I would have switched the bands. Seems like theyou would have been easier to hype that way as a Monte no 2 anejado and a romeo Churchill anejado. 

Interesting thought, except it would have been even more obvious to anyone that smokes a 07-08 Monte 2 or RyJ Churchill (which are very much still in circulation) that these cigars are absolutely nothing like those. Their best bet was to further conceal the inconsistency with odd, one-off vitolas.

The more I think about the Anejados program the more angry I get...so many things that don't make sense. These things are legit like OJ didn't do it. I just don't like customers being swindled and condescended to like HSA is trying to do with these. Anyway, people aren't buying them, as they shouldn't, and telling HSA to insert these dog rockets into their arses.

[El Presidente]

10 hours ago, dowjr1 said:

Why do you think they aren't selling Prez?

The Anejado program has produced some "decent" cigars in the Partagas and the Monte Churchill. Get a great box of those and you will likely be a happy camper. 

Overall however there is no "Wow" factor. The vast majority of boxes are bog average. The HDM is appalling when compared to a good HDM Epicure Especial. 

Take in the price premiums and it is a no brainer. Quantum Fail.