heroes week

[Ken Gargett]

will expand a bit when i have time but been flat out for a couple of weeks and lots to catch up on. last week was all in mornington peninsula tasting/drinking great pinot noir from there, burgundy and all round the world.

back just in time to go the the first bruce concert with rob and Di - so exciting to see people at their first. and it was a really good one. at sparrows next morning down to adelaide where yalumba were releasing a super premium wine - they always do things so well. as well as that brilliant wine, we saw many others from around the world but the highlight was a couple of old maurice o'shea wines from the 40s, one of which was in extraordinary condition. as halliday said, if it had ever made an auction, we'd be starting the bidding around $10K a bottle. a real thrill was that rob hill-smith, owner of yalumba and a terrific bloke. had along a couple of his good friends, lillee and marsh. while aussies will know who they are, for americans, dennis lillee is the greatest fast bowler who ever lived (in many eyes, and correctly so) - think greatest pitcher (koufax or cy young? not really sure), while marsh is one of the very best wicketkeepers/catchers. for europeans, lillee would be the pele of fast bowling. two huge childhood heroes of mine. they say you should never meet your heroes - in this case, they would be wrong. two more decent, genuinely likeable, top blokes you would never meet. got to spend a heap of time with both. a real privilege.

had to leave early to get back for the next bruce and what an evening!! one of the best i've seen. the encore was "jungleland, born to run, dancing in the dark, ten avenue freezeout, shout and thunder road". take me now, lord!" but the highlight was a kid he got up to play 'growing up. more on that later.

brilliant evening. they are unquestionably (and i accept some may prefer other songs/music/etc) the greatest rock band this planet has ever seen, or is ever likely to.

 

 

 

[planetary]

Sounds like you have had a terrific time lately, Ken! ...Though I admit to a degree of astonishment at hearing that your childhood heroes are still alive!  

Sidebar on the baseball topic here: Koufax, a Dodger, as the best ever?  Scoff.  If you hold with 538's Elo algorithm, the best is Pedro Martinez, followed by Randy Johnson and Greg Maddux. Koufax isn't even in the top 10.

These reports of 3 or 4 hour Springsteen concerts are crazy.  I don't go to many concerts at all, and none have approached anything close to 3 hours in length -- let alone 4.  The Boss has endurance, apparently.

[OZCUBAN]

9 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

will expand a bit when i have time but been flat out for a couple of weeks and lots to catch up on. last week was all in mornington peninsula tasting/drinking great pinot noir from there, burgundy and all round the world.

back just in time to go the the first bruce concert with rob and Di - so exciting to see people at their first. and it was a really good one. at sparrows next morning down to adelaide where yalumba were releasing a super premium wine - they always do things so well. as well as that brilliant wine, we saw many others from around the world but the highlight was a couple of old maurice o'shea wines from the 40s, one of which was in extraordinary condition. as halliday said, if it had ever made an auction, we'd be starting the bidding around $10K a bottle. a real thrill was that rob hill-smith, owner of yalumba and a terrific bloke. had along a couple of his good friends, lillee and marsh. while aussies will know who they are, for americans, dennis lillee is the greatest fast bowler who ever lived (in many eyes, and correctly so) - think greatest pitcher (koufax or cy young? not really sure), while marsh is one of the very best wicketkeepers/catchers. for europeans, lillee would be the pele of fast bowling. two huge childhood heroes of mine. they say you should never meet your heroes - in this case, they would be wrong. two more decent, genuinely likeable, top blokes you would never meet. got to spend a heap of time with both. a real privilege.

had to leave early to get back for the next bruce and what an evening!! one of the best i've seen. the encore was "jungleland, born to run, dancing in the dark, ten avenue freezeout, shout and thunder road". take me now, lord!" but the highlight was a kid he got up to play 'growing up. more on that later.

brilliant evening. they are unquestionably (and i accept some may prefer other songs/music/etc) the greatest rock band this planet has ever seen, or is ever likely to.

So two concerts I wish 

p.s only jealous ?

 

 

 

[shlomo]

The fact that they have Jake Arrieta,  Frank Tanana and Curt Schilling ahead of Koufax is laughable. Still, interesting read.

[Ken Gargett]

1 hour ago, shlomo said:

The fact that they have Jake Arrieta,  Frank Tanana and Curt Schilling ahead of Koufax is laughable. Still, interesting read.

no argument from me re the baseball.

i was a fan of cal rypkien (spelling?) when i lived in DC early 90s but could not name a top pitcher but wanted one to illustrate the point. i googled top pitchers and whatever site gave me him, as in koufax, and cy young. i have heard of a cy young award, i think, but no clue what it is. clearly a dud site.

perhaps if we simply call him the tom brady of fast bowlers.

[JohnS]

I think that ELO pitcher statistic measures career peak rather than overall pitcher excellence. Cricket has a similar rating system called the Reliance ICC Player Rankings, a mathematical rating system which ranks player form on a rating out of 1000. Dennis Lillee's career peak was 884, which is 36th best on the list. His overall career form would have to rank him easily within the top 10 bowlers of all time, in my mind top 5 would be more accurate.

I do think that the ELO reference that @planetary linked has validity in regards to pitchers who were in career-best form. In my mind, there's no surprise that players such as Pedro Martinez and Greg Maddux are so high up the list, after all, they held records for post deadball era WHIP (Walks and Hits per innings pitched) and ERA (Earned Run Average)numbers.

@Ken Gargett, incredible for you to meet Dennis Lillee and Rod Marsh. I intend to discuss this with you the next time we meet in person, most probably the next time I am in Brisbane. Lillee and Marsh combined for 95 Test dismissals as bowler and wicketkeeper for Australia, an amazing statistic in itself. I think the Baseball equivalent may be Tom Seaver and Johnny Bench for the Big Red Machine of the 1970s or Whitey Ford and Yogi Berra for the New York Yankees in the 1950s.

[Ken Gargett]

7 hours ago, JohnS said:

I think that ELO pitcher statistic measures career peak rather than overall pitcher excellence. Cricket has a similar rating system called the Reliance ICC Player Rankings, a mathematical rating system which ranks player form on a rating out of 1000. Dennis Lillee's career peak was 884, which is 36th best on the list. His overall career form would have to rank him easily within the top 10 bowlers of all time, in my mind top 5 would be more accurate.

I do think that the ELO reference that @planetary linked has validity in regards to pitchers who were in career-best form. In my mind, there's no surprise that players such as Pedro Martinez and Greg Maddux are so high up the list, after all, they held records for post deadball era WHIP (Walks and Hits per innings pitched) and ERA (Earned Run Average)numbers.

@Ken Gargett, incredible for you to meet Dennis Lillee and Rod Marsh. I intend to discuss this with you the next time we meet in person, most probably the next time I am in Brisbane. Lillee and Marsh combined for 95 Test dismissals as bowler and wicketkeeper for Australia, an amazing statistic in itself. I think the Baseball equivalent may be Tom Seaver and Johnny Bench for the Big Red Machine of the 1970s or Whitey Ford and Yogi Berra for the New York Yankees in the 1950s.

looking forward to it, john.

though we may have to discuss the slight you have levelled at the great man. top five only?

warnie for certain but another three? there has never been a more thrilling sight in cricket, and indeed possibly all sport, than the lillee run-up.

a larger than life cricketer, epitomised the aggressive long-haired, 70s porn mo, shirt open and chains everywhere anti-establishment fast bowling superstar. and yet a more humble nicer guy you will not meet.

[JohnS]

Haha, well the greatest bowler I have ever seen, in my lifetime, is the late great Malcolm Marshall. He could do it all, swing, cut, set the batsman up with slower and faster bouncers (you know, Andy Roberts started that one, "Macca" perfected it). Glenn McGrath, Shane Warne, Dennis Lillee and Sid Barnes...they're my five best, but I don't want to rank them, they all impacted the game (with Warne the most influential in transforming the art of leg-spin bowling, after all has anyone done it since?).

[Ken Gargett]

12 minutes ago, JohnS said:

Haha, well the greatest bowler I have ever seen, in my lifetime, is the late great Malcolm Marshall. He could do it all, swing, cut, set the batsman up with slower and faster bouncers (you know, Andy Roberts started that one, "Macca" perfected it). Glenn McGrath, Shane Warne, Dennis Lillee and Sid Barnes...they're my five best, but I don't want to rank them, they all impacted the game (with Warne the most influential in transforming the art of leg-spin bowling, after all has anyone done it since?).

warnie stands alone. then lillee as the finest quick. then marshall and mcgrath for me but if you asked me tomorrow, i might swap the latter two for akram and ambrose. and back again the next.

funny you mention that fast/slow bouncer thing. i brought that up with lillee. he was the first i remember doing it, though i think roberts did it better. i mentioned i remembered him getting gatting by dropping two quick bouncers, both hooked for four, and then a slower one which got him. lillee said he thought that it was not so much a slower bouncer but the out of the back of the hand ball he used to bowl. but i guess same thing mostly.