Answer this one for me.....how long does it take to get a handle on the world of cuban cigars.

[Philc2001]

On 2/7/2017 at 5:19 PM, Philc2001 said:

Mastery is not applicable to something so subjective, so to answer your question simply; Never! You can be obsessed with these niggling details, or you can just smoke cigars and enjoy it. 

No different for Cubans versus Non Cubans. Sourcing is the only difference. 

 

 

On 2/7/2017 at 6:07 PM, SaintMickey® said:

Master, feel comfortable whatever. I wasn't the OP. The Prez was looking' for opinions from the board.


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Sorry, I probably should have worded that better. What I was trying to get across, and didn't do so well, is that there are too many variables to ever be able to master cigars of any kind (except maybe White Owls). Cigars are a man-made product, made from crops grown seasonally, which vary based on climate, soil conditions, region, etc. Then you have different blenders and rollers across multiple factories and so on. Channeling Forrest Gump.... each and every box of cigars is like a box of chocolates, you just never know what you will get. And no amount of experience will change that. 

Regardless of experience or however many cigars you smoke, there is no way to really know if you will like a cigar until you light it and smoke it. About all you can really master is your own tastes and preferences - develop your own palate, narrow down what you like and don't like, such as the size, flavor profile and body of a cigar, and then when you find cigars that hit that sweet spot, just load up the truck. Frankly, of all the cigars I have in my humidor, I know of only 4 or 5 that I truly crave at this point in my life after 25 years of smoking cigars. The rest are merely experiments, some I enjoy every now and then, others are just forgotten remnants.   

My only advise is just keep trying different vitolas in small quantities until you find YOUR cigar. From my experience, one cigar is never enough, if I like a cigar I want to smoke at least 3 to be sure it wasn't a fluke. Similarly, if I don't like a certain cigar, I'll smoke one or two more just to be sure. If the repeat experience is the same, then I decide. 

 

 

[Orion21]

Life is like a box of Cuban cigars....you never know what you're going to get.

I thought I had a handle on the world of Cuban cigars, then I became a student of The Pig ?

I have accepted that I know more than many and a lot less than some and I'm just fine with that.  10 years into this beautiful world/hobby and I know what I like.  That's all anyone should hope for with cigars.

[bb360]

I don't think its  possible to get  a handle on it , first its I wish I had that box and then I really want that box or I should have bought 2 boxes  , flavours change etc etc.

you never ever get a handle you need plenty of money and plenty of time on your hands to enjoy.

[LGC]

How long does it take to learn to rebuild an engine? Some have the aptitude... some don't. It's only rocket science if you make it out to be as such. Learn by experiences and trial...
not by searching for someone to tell you what's good, what to buy, how to age, how to store, etc. If someone thinks that following recipes word for word ensures perfect meals... they will never learn to make a great meal. Use advice as starting points, not words to live by. All information is based on opinions... and there are no experts out there (when it comes to deciphering your own palate and personal preferences). In addition, inconsistency makes the moving target even harder to nail down

[Aussiegoldsmith]

No right answer Mates! Enjoy the journey.
Time takes Time!

Paul.


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[Luca]

10 hours ago, boopdeep said:

Good point. I haven't purchased an NC since around 2012, but if I recall, there was 1 NC brand that came out with a line where the boxes were dated. 

Why do NCs not do this? Anyone know? 

What brand NC was it? More NC brands should do that. It adds extra value for the consumer.

[boopdeep]

3 hours ago, Luca said:

14 hours ago, boopdeep said:

Good point. I haven't purchased an NC since around 2012, but if I recall, there was 1 NC brand that came out with a line where the boxes were dated. 

Why do NCs not do this? Anyone know? 

What brand NC was it? More NC brands should do that. It adds extra value for the consumer.

It's been some time, but I think it was the Herrera Esteli brand from Drew Estate.  Could be wrong though. 

[Corylax18]

7 minutes ago, boopdeep said:

It's been some time, but I think it was the Herrera Esteli brand from Drew Estate.  Could be wrong though. 

Yup, I have some Herrera Esteli Lanceros "2014 Limited Edition", they have a date and I think a "Factory Code" as well. I love the cigars, like smoking a cup of honeyed oolong, with a solid nicotine kick. The entire presentation is a clear homage to cuban packaging. When I get home ill grab a few photos. 

[Dijit]

I guess my journey in the world of Cuban cigars is the odd one. I have been enjoying the benefits of cigars for going on 35 years. My first Cuban about 32 years ago. I dont even remember what it was. since that time my grasp of Cuban cigars changes as my tastes change. At on point for several years only about 5 or 6 years ago with very little exception I didnt like Cuban cigars. That period was my the stronger the better phase. Needless to say I probably gave away as many CC's as I have in my humidor total now. I have since gone back to slow enjoyment of my cigars. Now I find myself noticing flavors in my cigars that I never would have noticed. So I guess it is really up to you and how tight a grasp you want on the subtleties of fine cigars.

[Luca]

7 hours ago, Corylax18 said:

Yup, I have some Herrera Esteli Lanceros "2014 Limited Edition", they have a date and I think a "Factory Code" as well. I love the cigars, like smoking a cup of honeyed oolong, with a solid nicotine kick. The entire presentation is a clear homage to cuban packaging. When I get home ill grab a few photos. 

That would be great to see! Thank you Corylax18

[Ethernut]

On 2/8/2017 at 9:21 AM, Fugu said:

.... and it is NOT a matter of funds.

Everything that costs money has some monetary factor. Cigars no are different.. :-)

[Fugu]

You didn't get my stance, Ether. There is no straight-line relation, if at all, between monetary engagement and depth of knowledge.

[Jeremy Festa]

You didn't get my stance, Ether. There is no straight-line relation, if at all, between monetary engagement and depth of knowledge.

For the practical experience there is. Can read all you want. But the more variation you can purchase the more you will know sooner.


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[garbandz]

been smoking cigars 44 years now.

Comfortable?   Yes.

Competent?   Yes.

Expert?       Not yet.

I have acquired and read everything I can find about any phase of Cigar production and consumption.

Lots of minutia, some disagreement, a great deal of similarity among producers.

Too bad there is so little definitive writing on the subject nowadays.

 

 

 

[bman75]

5 hours ago, Fugu said:

You didn't get my stance, Ether. There is no straight-line relation, if at all, between monetary engagement and depth of knowledge.

Agree that money alone is not enough, but you do have to burn through several of the same cigar to get a feel for it due to CC inconsistency.  Do that for a large number of cigars that vary on flavor profile, strength, and size and you are doing a lot of smoking ($).  I made some incorrect early conclusions on vitolas and even marcas because my first few singles of those were duds.  On the other hand, I rushed out and bought boxes based on an amazing first single and the boxes were duds.  It can take several rounds with a vitola or marca before you get something that is truly representative and lets you know if it is up your alley.  

On the other hand, the person who starts by dropping $10K on a cabinet humidor and fails to set it up correctly or fails to experiment with humidity/temperature is an example of throwing money at a hobby without the requisite effort.   Sure to lead to disappointment.

[Ethernut]

14 hours ago, Fugu said:

You didn't get my stance, Ether. There is no straight-line relation, if at all, between monetary engagement and depth of knowledge.

You didn't get my stance Fugu, I specifically said in the very first statement.. "..for me".  Isn't each persons experience highly personal?

But hey your gun is cocked and loaded. Why not fire it right?

...but since you said it. There is very much a relationship between depth of knowledge and money for a great many things.. But I don't think we'll see eye to eye on this one no matter what I say.  

[RWhiz]

I've been buying and smoking CCs steady for about 4 years now and I feel that in the past year, to year and a half I've "gotten a handle".  I am by no means an expert, and never will be, but I do read sites like this one, try new CCs when I have the opportunity to, and have developed some good storage techniques thanks to sites like this one as well as other fine sites too.  My early box purchases have aged beautifully, and over that time I've sampled regularly to experience the changes in flavor the cigar goes through.  I can make reliable purchases on line, and get what I enjoy at a decent price.  

 

For me this is pretty good, I never set out to be either an expert or collector, rather someone who likes to age and enjoy good cigars (regardless of country of origin).  In this way it's taken about two and a half to three years to develop a handle on this hobby.  

 

I think this this is the question asked in the OP, not expert or serious collector, just a guy who likes good cigars and wishes to have a good deal of knowledge in how to best enjoy and procure them. 

[Lotusguy]

For me, it's about the journey. I have a good handle on my taste, I have good sources, and I can tell fakes from real stuff. I also know what storage conditions I prefer but I am far from an expert and I don't think I ever will be.

Been seriously smoking for almost 10 years and it probably took me 5 to get where I'm at.

[PigFish]

On 2/9/2017 at 3:49 PM, Fugu said:

You didn't get my stance, Ether. There is no straight-line relation, if at all, between monetary engagement and depth of knowledge.

 

On 2/9/2017 at 3:19 PM, Ethernut said:

Everything that costs money has some monetary factor. Cigars no are different.. :-)

As I consider you both friends, perhaps I can intercede. What is getting a handle on anything?

One can argue here only based on two or more separate interpretations. For me, in some ways it is financial. It took the money to get me the experience that I have, in order to smoke the cigars that I have smoked. Yet on the other hand, contentment, and if that is in any way a synonym (in this context) to 'get a handle on' then a huge bankroll is not required.

Life, takes money... In an absolute sense then, money to live, money to experience the better things in life, cigars being one, money is a factor.

From the more cerebral sense, especially with so many sources of information, if getting a handle means memorizing the catalog, the old date code 'cryptography' the book learning of cigars, very little investment of capital is required.

It just depends on the perspective mates. Now if you guys want AR-15's at 100 paces, I will supply the weapons, less bullets of course!!! -LOL

As a parting note, and as I read the modest posture of many of my friends, I would say that we have many experts here. I learn something new stuff here all the time! Me, I am not Habanos 'book smart.' I look up tidbits I forget all the time. But when I see the wisdom shared with newer members, sometimes very simple anecdotes and tiny details, you don't get that by accident. I would call a lot of guys here an expert. An expert is a guy (or gal) that knows what he/she is talking about... And there are a lot of them here!!!

Cheers! -the Pig

[Jeremy Festa]

As I consider you both friends, perhaps I can intercede. What is getting a handle on anything?

One can argue here only based on two or more separate interpretations. For me, in some ways it is financial. It took the money to get me the experience that I have, in order to smoke the cigars that I have smoked. Yet on the other hand, contentment, and if that is in any way a synonym (in this context) to 'get a handle on' then a huge bankroll is not required.

Life, takes money... In an absolute sense then, money to live, money to experience the better things in life, cigars being one, money is a factor.

From the more cerebral sense, especially with so many sources of information, if getting a handle means memorizing the catalog, the old date code 'cryptography' the book learning of cigars, very little investment of capital is required.

It just depends on the perspective mates. Now if you guys want AR-15's at 100 paces, I will supply the weapons, less bullets of course!!! -LOL

As a parting note, and as I read the modest posture of many of my friends, I would say that we have many experts here. I learn something new stuff here all the time! Me, I am not Habanos 'book smart.' I look up tidbits I forget all the time. But when I see the wisdom shared with newer members, sometimes very simple anecdotes and tiny details, you don't get that by accident. I would call a lot of guys here an expert. An expert is a guy (or gal) that knows what he/she is talking about... And there are a lot of them here!!!

Cheers! -the Pig

Sound points.

One thing you highlighted is the 'knows what he/she is talking about.'

And I would say 'to get a handle on' means the ability to be comfortably conversational. As such, I am changing my answer to 6 to 12 months.

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[Fugu]

C'mon boys, let's not get banal here. I think you very well understood what I meant to say. Perhaps some feel somehow found out, at least that's my only explanation for the sudden hostile tone I find myself quite surprisedly confronted with.

In this hobby, there will always be smokers and there will be hoarders... , and nothing wrong with that. But the hoarding aspect appears to take up an increasing amount of room recently here on the forum, and I have the impression that that also may to a part be reason for evoking a feeling of discomfort in the novice smoker. New smokers need our support and encouragement, and I for one don't like to come across as an exclusive bunch of 'elitist guys', bragging full-throatedly that there is a high entrance fee to be paid if you want to join the club. Not me, sorry folks. What I rather wanted to make clear is that nobody needs to shell out big money in order to get a "handle" on the matter. Simply - not - true!

 

As it appears from the responses, I am sometimes quietly implying more in my posts than what is actually being grasped, so I'll expand a bit further to make it tangible:

My comments have not only to be seen in the light of the intellectual occupation with our hobby - as some seem to interprete it - but as well, and as much as with regard to the smoking part of it. True, theory and facts is one important aspect, at least for me and also some others as it seems, while there is few people bothering with stuff other than what they can get from forums or find on the interwebs.

But as for the exercise part - the smoking aspect that is: That doesn't need to take up any more means than with any other hobby out there. In fact perhaps even much less than for many. First and foremost - there is absolutely no need to always buy boxes! When you have a chance to buy singles or part boxes (which you have, even as an American buyer, and in particular from this fine source here), or you perhaps got a well-sorted B&M in reach, you'll already learn plentiful - plentiful I say! Way more than from permanently hunting for the latest special Ed.. Yes, true, I also hold - what I consider to be - a well-assorted stash today, incl. specials, I am 'guilty' too, yes I am. But I certainly didn't start out directly from Camp W.. Fondly remember times when buying fewer than a single cigar a month as a student, by far not always CCs... and, lo and behold, I learned and enjoyed it a lot! As for the enjoyment: perhaps even more than today, as it wasn't kind of routine but rather still new and always a special moment to me, scrimped and saved for. Looking back, I enjoyed those apprentice-days immensely.

Therefore, - and that's my main advice to those new to the journey - getting a handle on Cuban cigars is much less so a matter of funds than a matter of intelligently selecting, buying and smoking - and a decent bit of good taste always helps, too  . Doesn't need you to take up a mortgage - as long as you don't let yourself be drawn into buying frenzies (sorry Prez... )

I stand by it: Five Lanceros smoked over the course of five years gets you more enlightenment than a whole box grabbed in passing and smoked through within 12 months.

Cheers, the Goo

[Fugu]

Thanks for adding that, Ray. I hadn't taken up the thread again were it not for your wise supplement.

[PigFish]

1 hour ago, Fugu said:

Thanks for adding that, Ray. I hadn't taken up the thread again were it not for your wise supplement.

I totally agree with large parts of your previous post and want to expand on that some. While neophytes on this forum generally join up Camp W... (I understand I have a councilor position) you don't have to! You don't have to be an obsessed smoker to be an experienced, seasoned or know your own tastes. The singles aspect is a key point, often overlooked and a brilliant observation. Many of us get so caught up in our own worlds we don't realize that there are newer folks that just want to see what a Cuban cigar is. Some may say... use the search function, while many of us take the time, time and time again to re-explain the media. To each his own, but like you, I foster the neophyte or we lose our interest to those with a grudge against us.

This strikes home with me. I talk humidor stuff mostly these days. But I would never consider beating a neophyte into 'needing' to do what I do. My first recommendation always is, get a cooler! You don't need to spend big bread to smoke a good cigar, or to store one. You don't need to age, hoard, collect nor covet cigars... Just enjoy the bloody things!

I have always argued against the aspect of the collector. Need to buy aged, need to age.... need to buy, wrap,  hang upside down and put a chicken foot in your pocket. We just don't need that to smoke a great cigar. Nor do we need an equity line of credit. It can all be fun, the hunt, the buy, the collect but each is an individual niche and none of it necessary.

I was PM'd not long ago by a neophyte that was asking storage questions, largely about passive humidors. I asked, why just ask me, I am a specialist, and this question should go to the main forum audience. He thought he might get 'beat down.' So just to let you know, your observation about what goes through the minds of the new smoke does exist, and it exists here as well. You are right on the money with your observation... I have been approached by new members, with this opinion more than once now! We need to make room for them, consider them in the forum outlook. No, not roll back who we are and talk baby talk, no way, but understand once more their position, and encourage them in their new journey. Not daunt them and scare them away.

Holding the flag for the neophyte and understanding what it was like back then is a very important perspective... MHO. You do it, and the funny thing is, so does Nut and do many others. I have always resented the 'equity line' approach that has become Cuban cigars. I blame authors and collectors for this shit but won't go into that. As US Americans cannot go to a local store and pick up singles, we often engage in this mindset and practice; I have done it too! Our hold on the CC has always been tenuous, so it is easy to get caught up in the mode of excess now, who knows what tomorrow brings.

Today, I would tend to build stocks more slowly as I have become wiser. Having tons of cigars from one crop is a crap shoot. They might be great and lesser so as we all know. This is a life hobby, but I did not know that when I started, as I started it with 1 box, as I could not buy singles... I kept them in a desktop humidor along side my NC cigars. I was there too.

Keep up the fight (figuratively speaking), you have a keen eye and there is value in your words... I'll buttress you position anytime. 

Cheers mate! -Ray

 

[Hurltim]

Time wise to get a handle on CC's? Hmmm... I would say that depends one thing: Sampling.
I am no expert by a long shot but I would be willing to bet I have tried pretty close to 85% of regular production cigars. I purchased well over 50 singles and recieved gobs from trades, fivers and swaps for shelves/drawers.
My advice: Sample, sample and sample. Find some fellow BOTL, go to a herf and swap stories and cigars. Three of my top five cigars in '16 came from fellow BOTL.
RE: Getting a handle on aging. I recieved a huge sampler from an FOH member who had a bunch of '14 cigars he was gracious enough to part with. I was able to do quite a few vertical tastings and started to see where some of the cigars I tried fresh would be in two years. A true eye opener.
To sum up: Sample like a madman, get with some great BOTL's and enjoy the friggin ride:)

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[Smallclub]

3 hours ago, Fugu said:

Therefore, - and that's my main advice to those new to the journey - getting a handle on Cuban cigars is much less so a matter of funds than a matter of intelligently selecting, buying and smoking - and a decent bit of good taste always helps, too  . Doesn't need you to take up a mortgage - as long as you don't let yourself be drawn into buying frenzies (sorry Prez... )

I stand by it: Five Lanceros smoked over the course of five years gets you more enlightenment than a whole box grabbed in passing and smoked through within 12 months.

This.

And I'd add, for those who don't have access to habanos, or live in a high taxes country (UK, Canada): be or-ga-ni-zed. Find 4 buddies with the same interest, and split ALL your purchases. I guarantee you that a "composite box" of 5x5 robustos or pyramids/campañas of the same age will make you learn faster and cheaper than the five boxes of robustos or pyramids/campañas…