Corojo 2012: New Tobacco Strain Being Grown in Pinar Del Rio

[Corylax18]

Article from Granma regarding the newly accepted (16-17 campaign) Corojo 2012 Strain. No mention as to the qualities of the tobacco as a finished product, only that it will be more resistant to disease, and most importantly, yield two more leaves per plant. Only 200 Hectares planted this year, but if results are good this new strain could begin arriving on our doorsteps in 4-5 years. So, a reach back to the old Corojo, or another step away from the cuban black tobacco of old?

http://en.granma.cu/cuba/2017-01-25/new-variety-of-tobacco-grown-in-pinar-del-rio-and-artemisa

 

[watches_whiskies_cigars]

I've heard that there was an experimental strain grown in the later 2000s only at some farms. Rumor has it that some of that tobacco was in the 2013 boxes which a lot of people rave about. I don't know how true that is, but I'd love to confirm it one way or the other.

[dicko]

very interesting article. thanks for posting. I've seen Corojo in reference to NC's.

What do they use now for wrappers?

[Dimmers]

*nervous*

[Sean3]

Interesting stuff...thanks for the info.

[watches_whiskies_cigars]

11 minutes ago, dicko said:

What do they use now for wrappers?

Currently, Corojo '99 and I believe also some Criollo '98. I don't think Havana 2000 is planted much, any longer considering that it requires extra fermentation. I wouldn't be surprised if the HdM EL 2007 had Havana 2000 leaf because it refused to burn. They only discovered later that the leaf required extra fermentation.

Hirochi Robaina was one of the farmers that planted Corojo 2012 after it came out.

[NSXCIGAR]

Very optimistic that new strains continue to be implemented and refined. Continued experimentation with new strains and (most importantly) good crops to get accurate assessments of what the strains grown where taste like with enough to blend is the key to capturing the full potential of tobacco grown in Cuba. I think with a few more great seasons and a few more strain refinements within the next 10 years there could be a huge leap forward in quality.

Corojo was a miracle strain for 80 years. In the scheme of things, 20 years to refine and develop alternatives isn't very long. I think the best is still in front of us.

[BonVivant]

 corojo 2012 was given the name for a reason

why not call it corojo 2017?

 

 

 

[avaldes]

Boy do I hope that H2000 is dead! But honestly some of the "maduro" cigars that I see online sure look like it isn't.

[Corylax18]

A little more history on the Cuban Tobacco Research Institute and how they have continuously been working on strain/variety development over the past 5 decades. Its funny that the Corojo wrappers that all the old timers rave about were actually a cross between the old "pure cuban" Crillo black tobacco and Sumatran seed tobacco. 

http://www.cigaraficionado.com/webfeatures/show/id/a-passion-for-seeds-18248

The tobacco that may or may not have been included in 2013 cigars is mentioned in the article as well. Thats the Criollo 2010. No way the Corojo 2012 could have been planted, harvest, dried and fermented in time for inclusion in 2013 boxes, Criollo 2010 fits very well into that time frame though. I dont know how prevalent the Criollo 2010 has become on farms across the island, but I know Hector Prieto did not mention it among the seeds he grows on his farm.  

 

[NSXCIGAR]

7 hours ago, Corylax18 said:

A little more history on the Cuban Tobacco Research Institute and how they have continuously been working on strain/variety development over the past 5 decades. Its funny that the Corojo wrappers that all the old timers rave about were actually a cross between the old "pure cuban" Crillo black tobacco and Sumatran seed tobacco. 

http://www.cigaraficionado.com/webfeatures/show/id/a-passion-for-seeds-18248

The tobacco that may or may not have been included in 2013 cigars is mentioned in the article as well. Thats the Criollo 2010. No way the Corojo 2012 could have been planted, harvest, dried and fermented in time for inclusion in 2013 boxes, Criollo 2010 fits very well into that time frame though. I dont know how prevalent the Criollo 2010 has become on farms across the island, but I know Hector Prieto did not mention it among the seeds he grows on his farm.  

 

Great article. CA still does some decent journalism, and I'm glad they're still around despite their other shortcomings.

Vocab of the day: Broomrape. Nothing good can be called by this name. Nothing. 

[Corylax18]

More info below regarding two more strains that are now being planted in Cuba. Unfortunately, both Developed from "Virginia" tobacco grown for cigarettes and bred for increased yield above all. There is no mention that this tobacco will be included in export grade cigars (I sure hope it isn't) 30 leaves vs 18 is a huge increase in quantity per plant. I wonder what other qualities were sacrificed to achieve this massive increase. Of the two areas of implementation mentioned in the article, one borders the Vuelta Abajo (Consolacian del Sur) and the other is outside any P.O.D. (Sandino) The locations make me think it will be for local cigarette and maybe peso cigar production.

http://en.granma.cu/cuba/2017-08-30/new-varieties-of-tobacco-being-grown

[99call]

On 1/30/2017 at 3:43 AM, Corylax18 said:

 and most importantly, yield two more leaves per plant.

I know absolutely nothing about horticulture, but doesn't more yield per plant, place a nutrient strain on the ground/plant itself?  Again I know nothing on this, but I'm very interested to learn. 

[Corylax18]

20 minutes ago, 99call said:

I know absolutely nothing about horticulture, but doesn't more yield per plant, place a nutrient strain on the ground/plant itself?  Again I know nothing on this, but I'm very interested to learn. 

Or all the leaves are smaller. There are a lot of intricacies to farming, but at its core, its a zero sum game. You aren't going to magically pull more yield from thin air.

Modern, commercialized farming has learned how to squeeze every last drop of production from each hectare of land, the efficiency is very high. Cuba has a long was to go in this respect, they have yet to embrace any kind of mechanization and use minimal modern fertilizers and pesticides. Instead of focusing on intelligent and efficient growth of the crop(logic is for idiots), they are working to get more yield per plant, using essentially the same archaic methods. Communism's approach to "growth" at its best; Implement Mendel's methods of cross breeding over decades rather than decentralize and modernize the countries most valuable industry. 

[Doctorossi]

If I'm not mistaken, Hirochi's still on a world tour. Maybe someone can ask him about his experience with this new strain, though he may not feel able to say anything.

[99call]

2 minutes ago, Corylax18 said:

Or all the leaves are smaller. There are a lot of intricacies to farming, but at its core, its a zero sum game. You aren't going to magically pull more yield from thin air.

Modern, commercialized farming has learned how to squeeze every last drop of production from each hectare of land, the efficiency is very high. Cuba has a long was to go in this respect, they have yet to embrace any kind of mechanization and use minimal modern fertilizers and pesticides. Instead of focusing on intelligent and efficient growth of the crop(logic is for idiots), they are working to get more yield per plant, using essentially the same archaic methods. Communism's approach to "growth" at its best; Implement Mendel's methods of cross breeding over decades rather than decentralize and modernize the countries most valuable industry. 

Good to know.  

I was trying to grasp at whether tobacco is like a fruiting plant. i.e. bulk on the plant, might lower the overall quality of everything. Or weather, as it's just leaves, it's effectively extra surface area for photosynthesis, and may improve the quality of the plant over all?

[Corylax18]

7 minutes ago, 99call said:

Good to know.  

I was trying to grasp at whether tobacco is like a fruiting plant. i.e. bulk on the plant, might lower the overall quality of everything. Or weather, as it's just leaves, it's effectively extra surface area for photosynthesis, and may improve the quality of the plant over all?

It is and it isn't. Many Cuban farmers have spoken about how the stresses of the Cuban environment are what make the tobacco so special. Just enough water, just enough organic fertilizer, just the right amount of sunlight and wind. The water, sunlight and wind are tough to control, and there is never, ever enough fertilizer to go around. Bigger and Better are certainly related, but they don't necessarily increase together in a linear fashion. 

Speaking to the farmers directly is a great way to garner more information. I plan to spend a night or two at Hector Prieto's farm in November. Hopefully its just before they start full scale planting and Hector has some time to discuss what he sees. I'll be sure to pass along any info he provides.

[Fugu]

1 hour ago, Corylax18 said:

More info below regarding two more strains that are now being planted in Cuba. Unfortunately, both Developed from "Virginia" tobacco grown for cigarettes and bred for increased yield above all. There is no mention that this tobacco will be included in export grade cigars (I sure hope it isn't)

Cigarette production, not related to cigars. They are ramping up cigarette output in Cuba atm through their joint-venture with Brazil (Brascuba).

[99call]

24 minutes ago, Corylax18 said:

It is and it isn't. Many Cuban farmers have spoken about how the stresses of the Cuban environment are what make the tobacco so special. Just enough water, just enough organic fertilizer, just the right amount of sunlight and wind. The water, sunlight and wind are tough to control, and there is never, ever enough fertilizer to go around. Bigger and Better are certainly related, but they don't necessarily increase together in a linear fashion. 

Speaking to the farmers directly is a great way to garner more information. I plan to spend a night or two at Hector Prieto's farm in November. Hopefully its just before they start full scale planting and Hector has some time to discuss what he sees. I'll be sure to pass along any info he provides.

Yep definitely feedback, we'll all be interested to hear. Cheers for the info

[cigaraholic]

I'm happy to pay double if they'd go back to the old strain, nothing they've come up with comes close to the flavor they used to produce ???????

[Colt45]

3 hours ago, Corylax18 said:

Many Cuban farmers have spoken about how the stresses of the Cuban environment are what make the tobacco so special.

Yes, here's a great thread with video interview posted by Andy:

 

[Huckleberry]

Interesting update on Corojo 2012.

It is being used presently in HVCs 10th Anniversary blend as filler.

It is also the wrapper leaf grown by AGANORSA Leaf  they have selected to use to wrap their Guardian of the Farm Cerberus blend that has yet to be released but is coming soon.

I realize these aren’t CCs but I’m still interested in trying both if possible.

At least it isn’t being used for cigarettes :)

[Corylax18]

7 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

Interesting update on Corojo 2012.

It is being used presently in HVCs 10th Anniversary blend as filler.

It is also the wrapper leaf grown by AGANORSA Leaf  they have selected to use to wrap their Guardian of the Farm Cerberus blend that has yet to be released but is coming soon.

I realize these aren’t CCs but I’m still interested in trying both if possible.

At least it isn’t being used for cigarettes

Those claims are extremely suspicious, especially the wrapper one. I'm pretty confident calling that one as pure BS. 

The very first batch of C2012 was only harvested in Cuba in early 2017, or about 5 years ago. My guess is that first batch, or maybe 2 where used to test drying, curing, etc. Before it was planted en mass. So lets say the first large, commercially usable crop was harvested in early 2019. About 6 months on the farm for the drying and first fermentation, that only provides about 18 months for the 2nd fermentation and any "aging" of the leave. That's going to be some "Twangy" leaf at that point. 

They want us to believe they snuck the seeds off the island(in commercial Quantities) the second it was released, learned how to grow it(and reproduce it) and handle the finished produce, then get it into cigars in less than 5 years? It took the Cubans at least 5 years just to stabilize the strain (C2012, released 2017) from strains that had already been growing for years. 

The wrapper claim is only possible if they genuinely don't care about the quality of their product. I've heard positive reviews of aganorsa leaf here, but never smoked one myself. Quality wrapper leaf is much more fragile than filler leaf, it needs to be treated with far more care. Because of this it can take 4-5 years of fermentation for a wrapper leaf, plus the 6 months of work at the farm, that would put the earliest availability for C 2012 wrapper leaf at mid 2021(if the 2017 test harvest was used for production). If that leaf was grown in 2018 or 19, the leaf wont be available for another 6-18 months. So, again, they're either lying, or pushing out cigars blended with experimental, under fermented tobacco. Help me understand the attraction?

[Silverstix]

27 minutes ago, Corylax18 said:

Those claims are extremely suspicious, especially the wrapper one. I'm pretty confident call that one as pure BS. 

The very first batch of C2012 was only harvested in Cuba in early 2017, or about 5 years ago. My guess is that first batch, or maybe 2 where used to test drying, curing, etc. Before it was planted en mass. So lets say the first large, commercially usable crop was harvested in early 2019. About 6 months on the farm for the drying and first fermentation, that only provides about 18 months for the 2nd fermentation and any "aging" of the leave. That's going to be some "Twangy" leaf at that point. 

They want us to believe they snuck the seeds off the island(in commercial Quantities) the second it was released, learned how to grow it(and reproduce it) and handle the finished produce, then get it into cigars in less than 5 years? It took the Cubans at least 5 years just to stabilize the strain (C2012, released 2017) from strains that had already been growing for years. 

The wrapper claim is only possible if they genuinely don't care about the quality of their product. I've heard positive reviews of aganorsa leaf here, but never smoked one myself. Quality wrapper leaf is much more fragile than filler leaf, it needs to be treated with far more care. Because of this it can take 4-5 years of fermentation for a wrapper leaf, plus the 6 months of work at the farm, that would put the earliest availability for C 2012 wrapper leaf at mid 2021(if the 2017 test harvest was used for production). If that leaf was grown in 2018 or 19, the leaf wont be available for another 6-18 months. So, again, they're either lying, or pushing out cigars blended with experimental, under fermented tobacco. Help me understand the attraction?

Probably lying.  Not saying that alone makes them bad cigars per se, but it is most likely some very creative and misleading advertising.  Gotta love the term "Cuban Seed" too 

[Corylax18]

On 2/1/2022 at 6:57 AM, Silverstix said:

Probably lying.  Not saying that alone makes them bad cigars per se, but it is most likely some very creative and misleading advertising.  Gotta love the term "Cuban Seed" too 

I've never understood it. I'm not excited that its going to start being rolled into Cubans, cigars I smoke. 

It wasn't bred for better flavor, or better consistency. It was bred to produce more, through disease resistance and an extra set of leaves. At the expense of some other trait. IF you're going to claim you're using Cuban seed, why would you claim you're using the worst one?(from a customer experience) 

Apparently nobody does any research, at all. This crap wouldn't work otherwise. I'll be avoiding anything claiming c 2012 was used for as long as I can. (Cubans included)